The Weekender: An Epic Week In Gaming & Win A DreadBall Mega Bundle!
July 5, 2014 by dignity
It's Saturday so that means another Weekender! We'll kick things off with the news that we've had the one and only Ronnie Renton from Mantic Games in the studio and not only has he given us a fantastic Limited Edition Azure Primalball VIII DreadBall Mega Bundle to give away but he also sat down for a chat and plenty of filming too!
Full details of how you can win this DreadBall prize in the show!
We'll also be talking Warhammer 40,000 and tournaments, specifically banning certain things from use and Warren shows off his Dreamforge Games Crusader!
As well as that a whole bunch has happened this week including teaser for Dropzone Commander, GenCon Infinity Exclusives (check it out on the Infinity Hub!) and that amazing terrain from 4Ground. Get your writing cap on too with a big competition from Winged Hussar Publishing and Wild West Exodus!
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360p….?
Not sure why it’s at 360p, we’ll leave it and see if it processes correctly and it not, re post it.
It sorted itself 🙂
It takes time for youtube to process the video completely. It is up to full resolution now.
Warren’s wife must put up with a lot! If I suggested that as a holiday to my wife I would end up divorced!
She’s a cracking lass, and these days we make do with what we can afford 🙂
Hell she even indulged me in my crackpot idea, of us and the little ones sleeping in the back of the car on a mattress lol – Until she brought me to my senses and got me to climb in and try it 😉
I really want to expand my dreadball collection.
I do like that crusader kit.
But saying that, ill stick with my FW titans 😛
I like the Leviathan because it is not covered in all the little religious bits that the imperial knight does.
Another great show, recently got into Dreadball and that prize would be amazing.
The GW knight is nice but I prefer the machines to look mean and functional, less is more, who needs scrolls, skulls and banners everywhere. You don’t see scrolls and banners hanging off of the side of an apache helicopter, m2 tank or any true military equipment. Make it look mean and practical for me.
Great show by the way, mantic interview was great.
Having seen the crusader kit up close, it is an awesome beast though I do prefer the mortis version. Giant doom scythe and skull head? oh yes please.
Man, that interview was cool. I’ve been wanting to try and get my friends into playing another tabletop and Dreadball always looked like tons of fun.
Some 7th ed WFB tournaments had a handicap system. It worked both ways as armies considered weak gained a points bonus. At the other end DoC, VC, and DE were given a points penalty. I agree that an entire army shouldn’t be banned unless there’s no way to adequately make it competitive. At the same time, GW’s inability to write a balanced game shouldn’t be allowed to ruin a tournament. There needs to be a balance.
Careful now… I’m fairly certain they very much have the ‘ability’… I’m less certain the community would like the result 😉
You could find an awful lot of ‘fun’ ejected in the name of ‘balance’
Down with this sort of thing :p. And we’ll agree to disagree over whether fun has to be sacrificed to achieve 🙂
*achieve balance
I would take @redben ‘s comment a step further. I wold almost say that balance is REQUIRED for fun. Not balanced armies, perhaps, but balanced games. I would venture to say that no one has fun sitting down to a game they’ve already won, and even less to a game they’ve already lost.
Again, not saying that armies have to be balanced for a game to be balanced.
I agree. By balanced I don’t mean every option is equally as good. Just that there aren’t armies which are too good or too terrible and player skill remains the prime determinate. If a tournament organiser feels the need to ban an entire army because it’s broken then there is a potential failure on the design team there. I say potential because I don’t know 40K well enough to know if this was an overreaction.
Balance…. pffftttt… Narrative for the win.
No issues with narrative. Just as with fun, a game can promote narrative and achieve a reasonable balance. It’s not an either/or.
GW don’t make balanced games as it is not a priority – the fact models are designed before rules now is a big indicator of that. Even when they did attempt they where bad at it, oddly warhammers is almost balanced now due to rock-paper-scissors environment. Sadly it is a point where @warzan is wrong GW is run by bean counters – the guys in the studio I have no doubt are passionate about the games but they are tail, and the bean counters are the dog – as opposed to nearly every other great company where the passion and creative drives the company.
Not a dig at anyone who works at GW in the design studio, just sad comment on company direction
Narrative is great, but balance is not mutually exclusive with that – some GW games the narrative is limited as some match up will only go one way, so limit you options for creating tight edgy story driven games. If you have to self – comp your games then the system is flawed
Can’t wait to see how tired Justin looks in XLBS tomorrow.
I really enjoy my Dreadball basic set. Want to talk my mates into getting teams and playing a tournament.
Been looking into Dreadball
Azure – Nice
My friend recently asked me to paint her DB limited edition box set lately. Nice miniatures and an interesting sounding game. This sounds like a great way for me to get started.
Great Show guys.
A few comments 😉
Buy to win armies and imperial knights, £450 for 6 knights and 2500/3000 point army, isn’t buying to win, a 3000 point marine army is going to cost you £400-£500.
I am a massive fan of Mark @ Dreamforge, I prefer the leviathan, for a few reasons; its huge, its like a big-ass dread knight/greyknight, also its cheaper to buy than a knight :).
lastly, I’m looking forward to september to get my grubby mitts on some red brick war gamer lego 🙂
Use the leviathan, you can pose it and change the weapon options as part of the design, no modification required. I will be using mine as a Chaos and Imperial version of the wolfhound titan, as there is not much difference in height, but the Leviathan is bulkier, plus it just looks so damn cool compared to the knight.
Warren, I want to question your view of the hobby. The people like the Perri Brothers and other did not “come out from under” GW, they are the people who made GW. Without the amazing miniatures and games/ideas they produced, GW would not exist today. They are the artist’s who brought our hobby to life. Think of the industry like an art gallery, without the artist’s it is nothing but an empty room.
Very much agree with this 🙂
Would love to win the dreadball set
Some really great insight as always! For me the strength of Kickstarter is that it allows innovations within the industry. if we didn’t have Kickstarter you’d just see an ever decreasing run to uniformity.
I also like Warrens Point about an industry not run by bean counters, I work for at IT Vendor and ultimately every flows back to a spreadsheet which again leads to a tendency to just repeat what works and shave margins here and there but stops innovation.
Great vid
I must admit as I have got older I have become a proponent of ‘support your local gaming store’. I get my models from my local store (Hadrians Hobbies in Brampton, near Carlisle, shameless plug) and I just ask him to get specific things in for me, he keeps on the shelf pretty much starter sets for the various systems, and anything additional I get him to order in
Yep, I’m excited about the Fable buildings too. I loved the art in that series. I agree with there being too much stuff to carry for retailers. Even as a player I see stuff that I think is awesome, but I just don’t have the time and money to invest.
I think the market will stabilize itself, from what I’ve read on forums. People have wizened over the past 3 years. Interestingly I’ve seen people ask serious questions to kickstarter projects, material of the minis being the prime (I think a lot of people are over cleaning up restic). Which is always a good thing!
If you are going to build the Crusader while camping, make sure you bring a full size Phillips screwdriver with you… the small one will work for a couple of the smaller threaded screws but you will want something with a bit more grip for the majority… just do not over tighten as you may strip out the screw.
Cheers!
Oh and I think you will find that proper solvent glue will give much better results than superglues 😉 You just need to provide more time. No doubt the Leviathan is a big kit with many parts… just don’t rush. take your time and you will enjoy the build and the end results.
Newbie here, from a modeller and painter point of view (not a gamer at all of 40k as i live in AUS lol) and disregarding price differences. Imperial Knight Titan seems more reasonable for the current aged Imperium, I have just came back after 8 years of not touching any hobby stuff. As I come back to the hobby, the Titan does have a very good silhouette of the space marines. (with skulls and more skulls!) In the current 40k universe the idea of never ending war has a great impact on the structure of the model, to me the model itself looks almost corrupted and fragile. (all weak points are exposed on the model including joints, cables etc.) Whereas the Leviathan Crusader seems too well armoured and elegant, even if its done with massive amount of battle damage. To me I would put the Leviathan Crusader in a grey knight army collection (if they even have titans), warmachine or do heaps of battle damage and use it as old technology from Imperium.
Final note: If price is in consideration Leviathan Crusader FTW, and I am looking at it purely form a painter and personal prospective, so more detail on the model is a big plus for me.
What a fantastic prize, Beasts of war, you are opening up new gaming avenues that me as a traditional historical would never had thought of!
Now Dreadball sports games… This goes with the F1 game I brought on your game of the week last year.
Great shows as ever.
Empty Wallet
Dreadball is awesome, highly recommended!
I picked up the Leviathan before GW anounced the titan and I’m not disappointed, larger kit and fully poseable, hence the screws, the pistons even work on it unlike the titan where solid pistons disappear into a hole. The arms have lugs on them and you can purchase separate weapon arms and you can swap them out as and when you want without have to do magnetisation or anything like that. Finally the overall aesthetic I just prefer the fact it’s fully armoured, yes the titan has armoured shoulders what about all the mechanical parts and joints that are showing, it just seems prone to easily being stopped by fire and doesn’t seem to have the armour that would be required like having a tank with an armoured turret and no armour on the lower hull.
Great interview with Ronnie! Can’t wait to see more. A Warpath Kickstarter will be huge. Vehicles!!!!!
For the Hawk Buses…I could see a cross between Max Max 2 and Priscilla Queen of the Desert
Nice Show like everytime Time. Want to Play dreadball Looks very nice.
Love some dreadball!
I feel sorry for the guy that had his army disallowed and I’m really looking forward to dead zone second shipment
For the cosplay I am good friends with the organisers of the Melbourne Costume group and they do lots of charity and Promo events in Melbourne and help raise lots of money for Charity and lots of smiles for kids in local hospitals
My only beef with it I suppose is from helping to organise the first few Q-Cons and what it was then to what it is now makes me a little sad but I do acknowledge that things change
Mr Renton is at it again, the etnhusiasm gushes from the screen 🙂
Hope Warpath doesn’t go back down the Warpath 1 route of not removing casualties. When I tried that ended up with a 20 man squad of Orcs with lots of damage taking ages to move around the table slowing things down that way.
I love the new 4Ground stuff, I recently bought my first kit from them and it is superb. Also, couldn’t agree more with Warren’s discussion on Cosplay and good luck with your own one, whatever you do!
There needs to be a balanced, mutually beneficial, three way relationship between the producers, the customer and their local game stores (LGS). All these new systems/releases are creating a ‘long-tail’ (see here) that your LGS will struggle to support in much the same way as books and music retailers have found.
Can’t remember who it was, but there was a KS that was going to try and involve your LGS as part of the KS delivery model; presumably giving them a small cut of the delivery costs/margin in order to a) ‘kick-start” the retail distribution network for that game and b) introduce gamers to their LGS from whom they could pick up subsequent updates etc. Great model!
Once the game is out and new models/kits etc trickle out then LGS need a way of staying in the loop. Even GW stores struggled with their ‘long-tail’ of product ranges and resorted to a mixed online/collect-from-store/buy-in-store policy. Even GW struggled with “why bother ordering online to pick-up in-store when I can buy at a discount from cheaponlineminis.com?” resorting to exclusive ranges, staggered releases and othe practices,
An onus is indeed on us, the gamers, understanding and appreciating the benefit of your LGS (and potentially linked local game clubs) in the community and supporting them; otherwise they’re not going to be there much longer.
I’m in it for the partridge in the pear tree ;0)
This was again a great show, the height of my saturday. 😉
I just recently joined a club, that doesn’t want to be called a club, playing mordheim. I would just love to see you guys build a table with the new 4ground terrain and play a game of mordheim.
One thing I kinda miss on this show is a bit on current kickstarters; what’s out there, how it’s going etc.
Nice weekender, I like Workshop’s dreadknight better, nice interview with mr Renton and on top of thst we can win a ton of dreadball stuff, that’s the way to go.
Cant wait for the resistance stuff from hawk wargames
It’s great to hear from Ronnie about all the great Mantic goodness coming soon. I can’t wait to see everything you have been talking about.
Azure forest looks great. Would love to play some games on it!
Great vid and nice prize, would love to play a bit more Dreadball.
Long time watcher, first time commenter.
I wanted to get in and comment on the banned Knight army. Unfortunately it says a lot about the people complaining/banning and illustrates why the hobby can be unapproachable for some outsiders looking to get involved when faced with petty personalities.
The buy to win argument is nonsense. As illustrated above, five or six knights are probably cheaper than a full on “average” army. The problem is that this person is spamming a unit.
Surely there is immense satisfaction from defeating or tabling such a knight army? Why not view it as a challenge. If you lose, take it on the chin, if you win stick it in the memory bank.
The army will no doubt obliterate certain builds but have kryptonite in others e.g. flyers. I dislike flyers and boldly build lists without much AA. Thus I am in deep do do when flyers are around. Do I moan and call for flyers to be banded? Of course not.
In terms of rules and incorporating super heavies and Lords of War I would ask anyone to look at what the Americans do a la Bay Area Open and Las Vegas Open. I don’t want this to be a plug for the guys at Frontline but they are always pushing and tweaking to get the best tournament out. Using primary, secondary and tertiary objectives.
They have recently published a list of super-heavies that are acceptable. Those banned are just too unbalancing for something like a tournament and are removed because they simply will be no fun for any player involved. Unrestricted D-strength weapons etc have been removed. They also use FW because FW is cool, from models to rules. In the UK, people only moan about FW unless playing 30k.
Knights like everything can be dealt with and it comes down to player skill versus models. Sometimes the dice are against you, sometimes you really just have met your kryptonite but the guy should not be banned. Simple as. View at as a challenge etc………
Also, where are the updates on the fitness/diet effort Warren?
Cheers
I’m battling with Gluten at the moment (Son was diagnosed intolerant, and during the process, it turns out I have struggled with gluten for years) 🙁
Oh nuts, unfortunately there is a huge propensity towards a gluten intolerance in Irish genes.
Take this on board if you will, work with a dietician (protected profession as opposed to nutritionists) registered to the HCPC. Obviously everyone has an opinion and can read the latest nonsense article online but you want to get help from people who are devoted and passionate to it. Shoudl be able to get on the NHS and should be plenty around your area as there is a good university course for it in the North.
Best of luck.
Interesting to hear Ron talk about Kickstarter. I’ll confess to being more than a little jaded with it but that interview’s a reminder that there’s only one large company in this business and everyone else is more or less a cottage industry.
I backed Dreadball. I backed Dreadball Extreme. Ronnie is a God.
What a packed show to kick off the weekend! Always a pleasure watching you guys winding Ronnie up and letting him speed off with spoilers and upcoming news, I don’t know what you’re plying him with but he clearly has no filter left by the time you’re done. Surprised he didn’t blurt out what franchises he’s interested in, will be very interesting to see what’s next on that front.
Loved the bit about cosplay. Those guys and gals are extremely talented individuals, muchos respect for what they do.
Another great show guys.
The interview with Ronnie was just like being in one of his seminars at the Mantic Open Day, except at those he keeps the crowds happy by giving them food before they ask him any questions.
Also Justin must of dozed of when editing as I am sure Warren got a “bullsh*t” in at the end.
Top show and looking for a reason to get back in to dreadball and that would be it
Id pick the Leviathan because Ive a Chaos Army and I recon its more Knightly looking and has more surface area for modeling whatever mutated stuff ya care to add. pluss its bigger 🙂
You know, cosplay wise, the three of you could make a convincing Chris Redfield, Joseph Frost and Barry Burton 😉
Great show, good interview with Ronnie (he’s always entertaining). I really need to finish painting my Deadzone stuff… so I can get some more!
Been meaning to give Dreadball a look
Another great show and plenty of talking points.
I always try to buy my GW stuff from non GW shops, that way I am giving some of my money to them as well as GW.
I love Dreadball, it was because of you that I got into it, along with Infinity, and FoW. I have resisted Deadzone, so far, but do want the buildings.
Keep up the good work.
Nice show as always!
GW Knight or Leviathan?….. It is a hard question to me, because both of them are awsome! 🙂
If I’m ever going to make a pure Knight army, I would bring a mix of GW and Dreamforge “miniatures”! A Leviathan for Knight Warlord maybe?
Dreadball is so cool
mantic do it again with yet another incredible prize
I seem to remember that during the Mars Attack Kickstarter, there was talk around a Buffy license. Still strikes me as a great idea, and it does fit with the skirmish sized TV show idea. Probably just wishful thinking though.
Personally I prefer the Leviathan. It’s not coated in skulls and the way it’s made is more of an engineering marvel. Brilliant.
Dreamforge one – it’s cheaper, bigger and comes with a screwdriver.
Gotta aggree with Ronnie too – I would love to chat to the guy about miniatures, and I’m not even into Mantic/Warpath, I just think he’s just a genuinely nice person with a lot of passion and I enjoy listening to what he says.
Oh, and as an arachnologist, dont worry it’s probably an Orb Weaver if it’s sat in the centre of it’s web – they mind their own business and get rid of mosquitos, ticks, mites and flies – they also rebuild their web EVERY day. Props for making a point of not killing her 🙂
Great Video, I liked Ronnie’s explanation of the kickstarter stuff especially. I always buy from my local store because I like them and want then to stick around, but I think kickstarter has its place, its a very fine balancing act though, Mantic recognise this but I’m not sure others always do.
Extra Dreadball, yes please
So Ronnie says Skirmish, Mission and TV show in the same sentence… Anyone else thinking Stargate?
Well there is talk of a couple of new Stargate movies being made
I was thinking Camberwick Green…
Count me in for a Pippin Fort starter
On the 40K tournament, it sounds like the Tournament Organiser’s hands are tied if he’s commited to running an ETC primer and the ETC subsequently announce a ban on that codex. Not that I’m at all a fan of the ETC way of doing things.
Re: Imperial Knights vs Leviathan: This is one time when I’d have to say that GW wins a battle of style. The proportions are spot on, the feel of how it’s detailed in an olde style, the fact that it presents itself as more nimble than all of their bigger mechs. And it’s a great blend of their old style and new style.
Good show, great prize!!
The fantasy houses look very nice indeed and I’m looking forward to picking up a couple.
The Leviathan looks cool, so thumbs up from me!
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Just a way of using those sprue. This was for Epic but I’m sure it would work well for Dropzone Commander etc.
Ok, that didn’t work so you’ll have to follow the link:
Wow… that went a little wrong… sorry.
Fixed 🙂
Regarding the “cosplay” – I must really NOT be reading or watching the WRONG media on this. Over here in the US, I have never read or heard a bad word said about these folks (which is strange because we tend to have more than our fair share of moralizing). I agree with Warren in that I really don’t see what problem anyone would have with how these people choose to interact or express their hobby. The only possible thing I could think of is that, okay, a lot of kids go to these events and parents might think it’s inappropriate. But come on, man. Have you seen how comic heroes are drawn these days and what they are wearing? TV and the internet? Even some kid’s cartoons?
Parents complaining about apparently indecent costumes, while at the same time taking their kids to conventions that venerate games of death and violence.
But hey, guns, murder, violence…. who cares.
But a woman being confident in a costume…. heavens above think of the children!
Leviathan Crusader first off it is not GW that by it’s self is a win! As some else said, it does not have all of the religious icons all over it.
Love dreadball and recently got my wife and a few friends into it and they love it. A couple have even been looking into the background and have shown interest in deadzone and warpath
warren cosplay as the butcher from PP.
Dreadball has been such a tempting game for such a long time budget being my only limitation.
I definately prefer the Imperial Knight, just so many more options for the look and bigger isnt always better.
Great show guys. Love what you’ve done with the Infinity board. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it. Infinity is my current obsession. also I’ve been eyeing Dreadball lately, so a chance to win that is welcome!
Ref Imperial Knight armies in tournaments – I can see the reasoning with not allowing them.
They’re a super-heavy with an invun save (albeit a directional one). To take on an army of these you’re going to need a dedicated anti-armour force, which you’re tournament list isn’t going to be. For example, you’ve got a 2 SM tac squads in balanced mix – 1 for anti-armour with a melta gun and a lascannon, the 2nd geared for anti infantry with a heavy bolter and a flamer. That anti infantry squad is now redundant as it’s not going to scratch the paint of a knight, so half the army is now useless and merely cannon-fodder for a knight. Yes they can be used to grab/hold objectives, but they have no way of fighting back. Now you take 2 tac squads geared for anti-armour and your next opponent is an Ork or a nid player, and you’re not going to be as effective against hordes with that loadout. So the balance issue isn’t from a rules perspective, it’s about a balanced army to counter all potential opponents.
Ref the 40k campaign – very excited to hear you mention Minotaurs…. have I got a pic to upload for you later (once I’ve finished this spot of painting ;))
I prefer the Leviathan simply because it’s not as fussy as GW model plus it’s completely possible.
My weekend would not be complete without the BS experience.
I’d love to know more about Mantic Games and their new editions of their games. Any chance you can ask Ronny more in-depth about that?
ARBBL have just finished first dreadball season. We are planning a second as well as deadzone. Several ARBBLers have funded Mantic kickstarters and eagerly await are next wave of figures.
And due to the games being easy to learn, mastery comes later, we have purchased more from independent suppliers.
If kickstarter was not around we would not have that initial variety of factions for a new game. Variety is the spice of life. Once you have the taste for a game then you have to have your weekly dose.
Franchise for the future how about the mistborn books by Sanderson. This would be a steampunk or fantasy version of deadzone rules with factions fighting around fantasy battlezone terrain.
Great weekender again. Mike
Imperial Kinight- it feels more like a machine the the leviaton which is a upsized suits of armour.
Another great episode. Got in on the last Dreadball KS and can’t wait. More stuff to paint. More is always a good thing, right?
One example I like giving is, “see your local supermarket or department store. It probably has double the employees of Mantic Games.”
Dreadball looks awesome. Been wanting to get hold of a copy for ages. Great interview with Ronnie too. Exciting times ahead
I hate when someone told me what i can and can’t do with my hobby, if i’m following the rulebook them it should be allowed. BUT, the best way to solve this is to be positive rather than restrictive, let me give a few examples :
Warmahordes Warcaster/Warlorcks Tiers : That’s a great way to use list that might not be as competitive than other but get special bonus that make them more viable compared to others.
Kings of War, Racial/Type Specials : If i’m correct you can mix different races on the same army as long as they valid alliance ( Good-Neutral-Evil, never Good with Evil, obviously… ), but what about going all Dwarf or Elves ? I have a very heated discussion with someone about restricting certain combinations vs giving special racial benefits if you comply with some restrictions. The difference is that the benefits won’t stop you from field an Dwarf+Elves+Basileans+Ogres army… but that army wont’ get any special racial benefit since they are all mixed up. Also Type benefits might be if you have Dwarf that are only Berserkers and your heroes are berserkers too, nothing else, them you get some huge benefits when you charge or other special benefits because you have a cohesion of mind and way of fighting.
Improve units : Yep, rather than nerf others, improve those that look a lot weaker.
I wish everyone good luck
Fantastic interview :o) and another great watch….
Great show once again!
I’d choose the Imperial Knight or the Leviathan based on the setting I’d be playing in. To me it is more about the feel of the narrative, rather than the model itsel. Both models are stunning. If playing in the 40K setting I think the Imperial Knight would be the choice. If playing in a homebrew sci-fi setting I’d go for the Leviathan.
On the use of a Imperial Knight army in a tournament, I’d say go ahead. I would love to see how they actually perform. Have an Imperial Knight army taken part in a large tournament and how have they performed there or is the ban of the army only based on prior assumptions?
Happy to see that you hade Ronnie from Mantic in the show. Get more of that. Looking forward to the XLBS tomorrow, can’t wait 🙂
Screws are something I haven’t seen in a plastic kit!
Dreadball is such a crazy game. i love it. This bundle what be perfect for our club.
I think I like the Imperial Knight model best. If only GW wasn’t so ridiculously overpriced…
Dreadball!
You know, regarding the Tourney “allowed and disallowed” conversation. Personally, the only real issue I have is that the tournament organizers made a post-entry ruling, which I feel to be about as unfair as you can get. If you’re going to run a tourney, pay attention to the rules, know what you’re doing before you open it up. But once you’ve done that, stick to it. I have to just say that the mentality you mention is why I stopped playing/collecting/enjoying 40K back in the late 90’s. I started out with 2nd Ed and only just started to play again when 6th Ed was released. For me, it was always about the cool looking models and playing on the field with them.
I’ll grant you, the “american” game has always seemed to be more about making the munchkin army that will win rather than making the cool army that is fun to play. Yes, that’s a bit of a generalization, but I do see much more of a Darryl type mentality and working of the synergies than I see in many of the discussions from the Europeans that play.
Finally, when 5th ed wound down and 6th ed came out, my friends and I decided that we’re not interested in tourneys. We just want to go and play, so we do. We get together once a week or so and whomever shows up on Sundays plays. We have run a couple of campaigns and whatever rules Workshop has published are the ones we use. We’re in it for the fun and that’s what we have.
My friends and I have had a discussion about how to play balanced ever since the concept of “unbound” armies came out and we kept that above rule-of-thumb … It’s fun. If you like the models, play them. My one friend has an all-Knight army and they’re tough, but more fragile than you might think. But it’s fun. We just avoid the “tournament” scene.
As for the imperial Knights, my Inquisition army has one. And the model I chose to use was the BattleTech Timberwolf, Mk II. : ) I like your choice, and now I have to pick up that model too. But, as I’m a big BattleTech fan, just feels too right. I’ll throw up a link to mine here if you want to see it:
http://dropshipserenity.blogspot.com/2014/06/mostly-done.html
Great show again guys.
Good listen this afteroon, bookmarked a few of these products.
Hello Folks, Love the DreamForge stuff , When they first started out they had a resin Leviathan That looked like the old school Epic titan in 28 – 30 mm scale. they had a huge church like building on top, you could pickup a weapons kit to weaponries the building . But GW legal got to them too. the new model has all different weapons , its just freaking awesome.
Holy Moly ! This not a game table in front of them, its a game temple !!! cant wait for tomorrows XLBS.
Great show !
Nice prize from Mantic. 🙂
Enjoyed the weekender. Looking forward to Sundays edtion
Dreadball is an amazing game. On the subject of handicaps in tournaments I know my friend who has run a Blood Bowl tournament in his hometown for over 15 years always has a handicap system to encourage people to play goblins since they are considered non competitive. Any goblin team gets an amount of points just for turning up and the best painted goblin team gets a special trophy ( this year a crocheted ninja goblin knitted by his wife)
Great weekender as always guys. For my two cents worth what about the new knight model from forge world, it’s maybe a little elegant looking for an imperial walker but it’s a very cool model on its own right…
Glad to hear Ronnieis taking the time needed to sort out Warpath; the original rules felt ‘soulless’ and missing a vital component – the affinity to connect to you faction ( in my humble opinion of course!) I hope pressure from warlord games GoA doesn’t push out a hasty product – this really needs tempering time to become ultimately successful. Time will tell…
Warren should kill two birds with one stone and enter cosplay as a terrain feature – a little hillock maybe?
In general my Imperial Knight vs Leviathan vote will go to the Imperial Knight. I just like the angles in the armour and all the little surface details like rivets and trims a bit better. I also like the different faceplate options on the Knight. The Leviathan helmet looks just a little bit too sleek and anonymous to me.
That doesn’t mean I would never consider the Leviathan kit, because my actual choice would depend on the army I intend to support. For the Mechanicus I would definitely go for the Imperial Knight. But for a more medieval looking force, like Dark Angels or perhaps Grey Knights, the Leviathan would be a more fitting option.
I can also imagine it looking great as the centrepiece in a Redemptionist army because of the braziers on its back. Just imagine that guy stomping about among a horde of frenzied, torchwielding maniacs. I might even want to make that army. 🙂
Great vid this weekend guys. Particularly enjoyed the insight into kickstarter and the industry. I personally have a GW knight, it’s still in its box even though I preordered it ASAP. But it’s gorgeous and I’m waiting until my Templars are done before I crack on with it 🙂
Surely 2000 points of any army should be competitive against any other 2000 points army no matter the codex???
Go with the leviathan don’t be a slve to GW….game on the edges.
Great interview with Ronnie from mantic ,such energy!
Was a supporter of the Dreadball Kickstarter , would love to add this great prize to the stuff that I have. Great game !!
I thought you were talking about me…I have a 40k tourney (the biggest one in Hawaii) in two weeks and I’ve chosen an Imperial Knights list with 4 knights for 1500 pts. I have been getting flak for cheesiness, but they do not get objective secured since there are no troops choices in their force org chart. I’ve been rushing to get them built and painted over the last two months and dread someone making a stink and banning the codex.
I prefer leviathan because it looks more like medieval armour and it has great looking head.
No codex (that is current codex legal) should be banned from competition. It will often be those that play cheese lists themselves that make these demands. In extreme circumstances where a codex outclasses ALL others then a points handicap sounds sensible. It should however be points to spend on the army list rather then points lost at the tourney. This is why I don’t play competitive, some people aren’t concerned about others enjoying the game too.
Help me bring DreadBall to Lodi California!!! Azure Forest!!!
Hail Beasts of war!!!
Looking forward to Warpath, loved it since I first saw it on beasts of war! Also can’t wait until Vermyn and Zzorr are in Deadzone?
Another cracking show guys
Can’t they have a tournament league for the band army’s if they can’t play in the standard league.
Your the best. I look forward to my weekend fix. Get Dave on, nutty as a fruit cake but always makes me smile. As always lots to think about and left wondering what to spend the next hard earned pound on :), its a hard life I know. Keep ’em coming guys much better then breakfast news.
I think the harsher and blocky look on the leviathan is what i would prefer.
Super stuff!
Very interesting to hear from Ronnie. Generally speaking, I hope that Mantic continues to flourish. And I really wanted to hear more about Dwarf King’s Quest. Please!!
how stress up is the atari write ???
whatzup whit the 3 stone???
=P
Great show as usual.
If you do a wee bit of alterations to a leviathan it may pass as an Ork knight?
Dreadball prize too good not to enter! Count me in gents!!
40k Knights. So… The community is stating some of the products are not balanced to such a point they are saying they aren’t competitive.
If they aren’t competitive why bother with a points value for them?
Oh… Gimme Dreadball. It’s shiney and I wants it!
It is interesting that Mantic gets so much preorders from retailers for Mars Attacks.
I think without the Kickstarter it would never would have become so well known.
I love it that Kickstarters make it possible to have more than a basic game at once produced.
Im not really familiar with the 40k tournament scene and haven’t attended a tournament myself but when getting back into the hobby did listen to quite a few Bad Dice and Heelenhammer podcasts and they covered the WHFB tournament scene quite extensively. What I picked up from listening to those is as Warren stated a lot of the popular rules packs are re-used by other organisers, good example being the ETC or South Coast GT in the case of WHFB. These packs often called “comp” packs/rules are the way in which the organisers do try to balance out the armies and are pretty common across the board. They are often up for debate from what I gather but I understand they should generally be avialble quite well in advance so its possible to review and tailor your force accordingly, or vote with your feet and choose not to go. Had never jeard of codex/army books being banned outright though. Just my two penneth. Like Lloyd personally the idea of tournament or competitive play has never really appealed to me personally but I still enjoyed listening. On a different note my tastes and primary interests have changed, influenced by what I have seen on BoW and now particularly looking forward to all the new a infinity content as have been “taking up” that game since the first BoW Infinity week and am really looking forward to the upcoming Dust stuff having got excited by what I saw on BoW invested in the KS. . Keep up the great work guys and looking forward to learning all about the dual Infnity/Dust table so I can hopefully emulate it!
You got to like Ronnie, his enthusiasm is so infectious.
I really feel sorry for the guy who was not allowed to compete in that tournament. Did I hear that right that It wasn’t in the rules he could not play Imperial knights until after he entered the tournament? that’s all kinds of wrong.
On the subject of choosing between the Imperial knight or the leviathan; I would prefer the leviathan kitted out with the Vulcan cannon and the Grendel Siege Gun. Being an old MechWarrior and heavy gear fan I hope they make shoulder mounted rocket pods for them next. Having said that I still have my eye on Forge World’s thanatar siege-automata, Now that’s a brutal looking piece of kit.
Just fInished watching the Mantic Interview part and the dungeon crawler stuff was interesting as I backed the Battlesystem KS for their fantastic sci-fi scenery and the guys are working on a fantasy equivalent that could offer multi-level über cool dungeons, wouldnt be surprised to see some sort of link up here given what I’ve read on the comments. Also great to see Mantic working with guys like Brian at Anarchy Models, another KS featured on BoW – if you’ve invested in the Mantic Sci fi landing pad scenery and you have an airbrush you should definitely check the new templates out!
The dreadball prize is really cool. Also i cant wait to see the infinity table in action it looks awesome (what i can see if it). I’m looking forward to the dust coverage, the dust to dust sound cool
It would be fortunate indeed to win the DreadBall MegaBundle 🙂
Lovely stuff as always
Really interesting show – thanks guys!
I especially liked the discussion about the industry – both the kickstarter issues and re: the place of independent retailers.
Also Warren, good rant about cosplayers. I’ve not had any interest in it – and still don’t really – but if I’m honest have been a bit dismissive, but you really made me think again. (I’ve always felt that people should be able to do whatever they like, as long as it doesn’t hurt other people, but I’ve not really had any respect for cosplayers, but that has changed.)
Interesting points about ‘booth babes’, although I think you’re on shakier ground here. Not so much for what you say about the women doing it, but because of what you don’t say about the people – girls especially – who aren’t doing it.
The problem is not unique to our hobby – indeed it’s not a very big part of our hobby, in my experience. But sexualised advertising is a real issue for a lot of people in a lot of places. And while the girls manning the booths may be taking informed and empowered decisions for themselves, I worry that it sends out a signal, particularly to younger kids – boys as well as girls – that sexualised advertising and promoting is a part of our hobby. And I think that is off-putting to some kids – and some parents.
At a time when I feel there’s a real chance that the wargaming hobby can grow and become more inclusive, this kind of thing risks making the hobby appear sexist and exclusive rather than safe in welcoming.
Thoroughly enjoyed the show, the tournament aspect is always a bit of a funny one. I kind of see it this way…
if there is one clear dominant army then if that means the purely competitive WAAC players all run that army out. Unbound manes people can do what they want. If they all take the same thing more fool them. Would people be as accepting if they said lets ban space marines?
Thank you for a great show!
Great show as always guys. The whole trying to bring balance to the 40k tournament scene is one I think will stay around as long as the game is around. The only reason I could see the tournament organizer wanting to restrict the army is because of the D weapons but since 7th edition I don’t think they are as big of a deal personally. I also believe an army of 5 knights isn’t going to be an automatic win army as they have a lot of weaknesses if the game missions are of a robust design. As for the knight verses Leviathan I personally like the Imperial Knight model because it is shorter and because of that looks a bit more bulky. Overall though you can’t go wrong with either kit.
really new to all this had space crusade as a kid painted them up but had no one to play it with now i have kids of my own who are old enough to play and paint am looking into getting some decent games i was looking for a review of Dreadball when i found this video and site very cool!
Just new to Dreadball. Loving it so far!
Dreadball seems interesting…
Boy due I feel Mantic Mantic I say Ha hahahahaha.
like the look of the table
Another Great Episode Gentle Sirs.
Another amazing show, guys, and this comment is beginning to be repetitive, but the fault is on you by coming up with a better show every week.
About the 40k tournament rules, I don’t think that there is a pay to win list, lists doesn’t win games, players do. If you give an awful list to a great player he/she will probably extract the best of that list, on the contrary of what will happen with a great list being played to a awful player.
I’m really excited about the new faction on DZC, I love the looks on all the factions that are already in the game, but lets be honest, we know that most of the humanity will end up like Resistance is in DZC. Don’t know if Resistance will be a great faction, but I go with then as soon as I start playing DZC.
Don’t know if I’m going to play Gates of Antares, but be assured, I will get all the fluff that I can from this game, the background is a show by itself.
Now let’s get this Dreadball prize and let’s play some Mantic’s game!
Loved this episode I am working on my own games and the people behind warlord and mantic sound like me passionate about the industry not ju own st there games!
Thanks for the awesome show guys. Especially love the interview with Ronnie.
dreadball is awesome, only tried it once but would love the mega-bundle
Loving the look of that infinity board. Can’t wait for your infinity coverage!
I agree with Warren and co about supporting a local retailer but in this industry and the country we live in (N.Ireland) a proper big war-gaming based hobby shop would never survive. I’d give up a kidney to be able to open one and have it be successful. Often thought a one stop shop might have a chance where you can play, buy and chat gaming but also have all the other resources that are needed like the strange supplies we all use from so many different stores also.
Anyway great show as always guys, keep it up and all the best.
i have painted the knight it looks great but i would not mind doing the same to the leviathan. The levianthan would look great walking round with GK and the other thing is the easy change weapon options i wish GW had come out with more variety of arms. The imperial knights codex only having 2 options for knights..why?
Talking about independent wargames retailers! We have NONE in the Thames Valley area other than GW stores. This is extraordinary as the area is densely populated with hundreds or thousands of gamers and numerous clubs!! I would love to support a store if we had one nearby. Are there not any budding entrepreneurs who love gaming? If I am wrong then tell me where are the stores and I will visit.
I think depending on what part of the UK you are living then wargamers shop in 2 ways
1/ The Internet for purchases that they need in a hurry
2/ If planning some new project , just wait until a show is on nearby and preorder and pick up from show
Model/Wargame shops I think are just to expensive to run when it comes to wages, paying for stock and all the utility, insurance bills that go with running said place these days
personally I would go for the leviathan easier to swap weapons which we all know will be coming with the imperial knight only its a permanent choice ,
on the size difference just look at the forgeworld cerastus knight it must be as tall as the leviathan as it towers over the regular knights so if anybody complains say your running one of them.
I choose the Imperial Knight because it is aesthetically more appropriate for 40k games. I think that the right way to play a particular game is by using the appropriate model from the game.
I live in New Zealand gaming stores with other products dont exsist, its GW only. So Kickstarters are a life saver.
Excellent show as always. Very cool products all around. If only I could get my hands on a Dreadball set of some sorts wink wink nudge nudge 😀
In reguards to the tournament organizers HAVING to balance 40k to play competitive games of 40k.
Because GW plc think everyone plays in the same way as the studio.(A group of gamers who agree on how to interpret the rules and agree on what army lists are ‘fair’ in that particular group.)
This means the 40k rules and codex books are not that suitable for random pick up games.
And NOT written for balanced competitive play.And GW openly admit this.
So before spending a huge amount of time and money on an army , it would be prudent for competitive gamers to check with tournament organizers, to see if their ideas for an army would be restricted by the TOs.
In the same way players at a club or regular group discuss army ideas before they start buying stuff.(Well we do anyway.)
The problem is players who think GW plc are writing 40k for balanced competitive play.When clearly GW plc have no intention of doing this.
GW expects the players to sort out the rules ambiguities, and balance issues among themselves.If you do not acknowledge this you may run into more issues.
Is it only 40k that needs such heavy restrictions for tournament play?
(I have not played any tournament games for over 15 years so I genuinely do not know.)
I really like Mantic Games approach to game development .They want to make the best games they possibly can.
A genuine passion to make great games and a commitment to deliver good value for money.I am looking forward to Warpath 3…
I firmly believe the designers in GW want to make the best games they can and also share just as much passion and commitment.
Looking at the quality of the products exudes this attitude.
Price and corporate strategy are another thing though, but I don’t like seeing designers who are clearly top of their game being tarred 🙂
I have just introduced Dreadball to my local games club and it went down a treat, I am now having to put create a rules pack to run a league from the Mantic rules with a few customised pieces to suit our needs as there was so much enjoyment in this game.
Not every weekend that you’re listening to The Weekender to @warzan talking about you. I’m the guy who had his Knight and Inquisition list rejected, but what’s amazed me more that that is the absolute rage in the local community around tournament rulesets. My problem was that the ruleset was unclear and got changed because of my entry however that’s not where the discussion ended up. I had to delete my Facebook post because it was going way off piste as guys with grudges started tearing chunks out of one another.
Welcome mate!
What are your thoughts on it now?
(Saw the nonsense too BTW 🙁 … Unnessesary)
I totally understand the need for balance, like you I’m just getting back into 40k and I don’t know what’s balanced or not. I picked Knights because I loved them in Epic, I think the minis look cool and thought it’d be fun to see them in a big game rather than a 500pt pickup. What baffles me is that if reason for banning the Codex is balance and so ‘people can have more fun” then why do serious tournament players seem to act contrary to that where it’s not about fun, it’s about winning and power lists and stopping “unfair rules” that might pose a challenge.
I still want to play a game with 1850pts of Knights, anyone up for the challenge? 🙂
You have a game mate, let’s do it! 😉
Just give me a time and a place and you’re on! Still need to come see you guys anyway sometime about ebooks, maybe kill two birds at once.
The leviathan is too cool not to use, already has several options that scream for magnets, and you can’t beat that helm/faceplate.
An awesome insight into Kickstarter and its impact, both +ive and -ive on local friendly gaming stores. This is fast becoming my weekend watch while I get some painting done!
Another great show … Thanks guys
well itd really help me out!!
Great show guys. Dreadball looks like a great game. Never played a sports game before but this looks like it might be the one.
the crusader is a cracking kit, the 15mm version looks great as well I still need to pick one up just so I can get it painted up for my grunts force,
I’m looking forward to what Ronnie has to say with regards to warpath and the like, deadzone is a superb game and they have really come along way since the start
Great show again guys. I’m loving me some Deadzone while I wait for Gates of Antares to arrive on the play testing forum…..
I heard Ronnie mention “hard plastic Veer-myn” during your interview section. I look forward to getting my ratlike paws on those, whether they come out via Warpath 3.0, or Deadzone 1.5.
The discussion on kickstarters is a hard one and I would love to have you guys opinion on it. A discussion can’t be had without mentioning coolminiornot who seem to do a couple of kickstarters a year but do not seem to really actively support those games once out.
I’d go for a leviathan myself. Imperial knight just doesn’t do it for me.
Great show as always. Thrown my hat into the draw! P.S lets hear more X-wing news…..Pretty Please.
Dwarf King’s Hold, Dreadball & Deadzone are some of my favorite games!
Being a regular tournament / event organiser can be difficult to please everyone.
Historically I have run large tournaments in Apocalypse. 3000 and 5000 points. These evants are never balanced and fair. However it does not mean they can’t be fun. I have seen some unhappy people who have played in such events. People normally get upset if they don’t realise what the meta is. If your playing apocalypse you need to understand you will see fliers and titans. If your perpared for this it can be an easy win. If your not you just end up taking model after model off. Which no one likes. Normally both players feel bad about it.
In my opinion the best games I have played are the closest ones. Where your fighting to the end and you can tell who has one until you work it out. If you play a v difficult list with a non competative list then this wont happen.
If your into tournament play in a serious way you can not get attached to what and how you play. You need to move with the meta. If you want to win, you have to change your tactics and quite possibly army to suite the win conditions.
Most players have an emotional detatchment to their army. They have spend money and time on it. Then can’t cope with all that effort coming up with a loss. You should make armies for different reasons and not expect them to have the same result. I have been playing with a lot of fun heresy lists. I have only won one game. Its been fun but not competative. Does that mean I’m going to go out and trash talk the army, the hobby, or worse still rage quit the hobby. No. Im an adult and I can see the larger picture.
Should tournaments be comped I don’t know. To be competative yes. To include everyone, no. People who want to win no matter the cost. Even if that means upsetting others are out there. If your playing in tournamnets you will play them and you might loose in a non fun game. However if you just want a few games in a day and you win some loose some then get involved. If you don’t want to loose or don’t want to play in a competative meta then its not the place for you.
I always try and get invloved to support others who put effort into the hobby. Have I ever won a tournament no. Does it matter no.
To conclude I do not have the answer.
Owen
The 40K rules dilemma is an unsolvable problem. I feel for the player, but who would want the role of the tournament organiser trying to make a level playing field for all participants out of a game which can be so complex and diverse
Love that table. Epic stuff.
Any model that needs a screwdriver to assemble has an upside to it, particularly at that size. I’m going to keep away from Imperial Knights though far too expensive for me.
The Knight and Leviathan are both nice pieces but for me the Leviathan has more bulk and therefore looks more solid in it structure.
I’ve been thinking about trying Dreadball. You guys certainly aren’t making it easy for me to resist.
Good to see you all back for the weekender
I back the leviathan, it comes with a screw driver! Reason enough to pick it over the Knight IMHO.
The Perry’s on there own, ace and good luck to them
Dreadball has pretty much been the only game of choice for the last year and a half!
Prefer the Leviathan over the Imperial Knight. The overall appearance of the Leviathan is more convincing than the Knight. Although the body of the knight looks ok to me, from my point of view the appearance of the weapon options do not quite fit into the style of the walker itself. So Warren you definitely should go for the Leviathan.
Entry into the Dreadball competition please!
Been having fun with Dreadball, would be nice to win 🙂
I prefer the GW Imperial Knight. This is that I had epic knights when kid.
I have some Infinity ‘cosplay’ cooking, but probably not in a way you’ve seen before. Looking forward to see how the keyboard warriors will recover from that shock. We will know sometime in September. 😀
Yes I would like the new Dreadball pitch, I recently pledged on the mantic kickstarter, they have some fantastic sculpts for the new teams and subseqently these Alien teams will form new factions for Deadzone etc.
Crytallans FTW
Now tournament comp. that is a dangerous one to open …
Great show guys that dreadball swag is epic
great show just listened to it as im full of allergies, swollen eyes cant see, full of mucus and trouble breathing other than that fine lol.
your show is a great substitute for not being able to see my figures or paint
Looking forward to mantic’s new stuff, especially warpath 3.0
I think kickstarter has been gret for gamers. Personally, I view Kickstarter as a way of funding a game I like the look of and not how much can I get free. Mantic seem to do a great job of encouraging more casual gamers by throwing free stuff at them. However, It seems to affect how much people are willing to back projects like Wolsung (I’m a backer) because there’s not as much free stuff. I did not think about how much Kickstarter might be affecting local shops. Food for thought.
I couldn’t see myself doing cosplay. It’s not something I’ve ever been interested in.
Having said that, most people I meet haven’t thought about playing with little toy soldiers either. My father wants me to paint on canvases as that’s ‘adult painting’. Don’t think he’ll ever get it.
A hobby is a hobby, regardless what it is and a hobby should not be disrespected just because it’s not your interest area.
Wow – Just got back form a great Birthday Weekend at Larp and then this great Weekender and a MEGA Prize!!
This would be a great way to get into dreadball!
bagsy the dreadball prize
I’m a little late as usual =( so my comment probably won’t be read but I’ll chime in anyway.
First I don’t think a all Knight list is broken, they are really good in CC(weaker now with the nerf to D weapons) but there are a ton of ways to deal with them, the easiest is either flyers(my Crimson Hunters rip knights apart) as they can only shoot at them with the stubbers and those are pretty low strength and their main weapons are all blast weapons. Which also means that a unit with invisibility will be all but immune to their shooting, and with all knights you will only have a few dispel dice so your opponent will have a good chance to get their powers off. You can also bog them down with cheap msu units that will only last one cc round, and then blast them in your shooting phase, a speedy army will be able to get around them, a melta heavy or lascannon army will easily deal with them, or just tarpit them with a huge unit of cheap troops. I think a balanced army with a knight or two backed up by a combined arms army is much stronger than just a army of 5 or 6 knights.
About tournaments their is the Comp system which kinda works as a handicap but for over powered models. You can’t really handicap players as the whole point of a competitive tournament is to find the best player. Now there are narrative campaign type tournaments that you can go to where winning isn’t the ultimate goal. That might be a better area for some. I would say vote with your money on what kind of tournament you want to go to.
I love both the GW knight and the DF leviathan but I like the Crusader more, its the one I have and got from the Kickstarter, honestly I love everything Dreamforge has made, every single model has just been stunning. I do have a question tho is the one you showed the 15mm crusader or the 28mm one cause there is 2 sizes and the box you showed looked alot smaller than mine(i have the 28mm one) or is the big one coming in a smaller box now? If that is the smaller one it will only be about as big as the knight(actually like a 1/2″ smaller) but the 28mm crusader is alot bigger than the knight its about as tall as a Warhound. Also the knight is on a oval base but its a larger size base than the flyer one if your looking to get one.
The DF Crusader kit is one of the best kits I have ever gotten, its pose-able, the arms are keyed so all you have to do is twist them and they come off and you can change the weapon load out, the pistons move in and out, its just awesome. You made a great choice, IMHO and i can’t wait to see how it comes out.
Anyway great show as always guys, thanks.
The Crusader looks awesome. I recently purchased from them the other titan with a skull and a couple weapon options. Enter me for the Dreadball please.
Good Video and a great interview with Ronnie!
I look forward to my Weekender and XLBS every week. Another good show!
Making my first trip to GenCon this year. Is Beasts of War making the quick jaunt to Indianapolis as well?
Dreadball stuff for free, yes please, Dreadball Academy was my introduction to the game and I still watch the videos back occasionally just for a laugh.
DV Academy was my first intro to Dreadball as well, with James (I hope he’s happy where he’s at now, he seems like good people). Since then I’ve very much gone all in on DB. The only other minis game I currently play is X-Wing (which I absolutely LOVE), although I HAVE had my eye on Infinity. I figure I’ll wait on 3rd Edition for that (plus I heard rumors of a 2 player starter set, which would help me get my wife into it).
That set looks awesome would love to win it! Awesome show guys I love watching it every Saturday morning!
If it was my choice I’d run with the GW knight. The larger fig looks like it would be more of a hindrance if you were hoping to take protection of cover, but then again, what do the imperium have to fear, other then melta’s…..
As always, great show, guys.
Great show as ever.
I don’t know how tall warren is but i think he could pull of the penguin from the batman arkham city games
I introduced Dreadball to the pupils in the school where I teach – instant success. Easy to learn rules, fast play and enough scoring/slams/injuries etc. to keep the kids interested. Orcs lead the league with veermyn a close second. Corp, forgefathers, zzorr and robots make up the rest.
We don’t do experience for the teams and the kids pick a team on a first come, first served basis, we just tally the wins for each race. Nice and easy – no book-keeping, encourages the lads to turn up on time and we can easily complete games in our hour and a half slot.
I’d love to expand the resources available to them.
I’d love
Nice weekender (even it is monday by now). I’ll prefer the Leviathan because of his baroque grey knight look.
What I find dishonest is in hiding the fact 40k is a buy to win game.
P.S.
Warren how come you hated the idea of giant robots in Pacific Rim but, in 40k ,somehow, it is brilliant?
I prefer the look of the leviathan better imo. It does help that the kit is bigger and slightly cheaper than its GW counterpart. However it does lack some detail if you bought another similar sized model; this can be solved with a bit of green stuff and some freehand work.
Good show guys. I’m probably in the minority, but I prefer the Knight to the Leviathan.
Why?
Both are great models, but the Leviathan has more in the way of unadorned flat surfaces. What edges the Knight for me is the layering of detail ‘under’ the armour as well as the increased granularity of detail on the outer panels. As a painter there are so many materials and layers to play with and the layering of the exo-frame gives something for the eye to roam around. Always something new to look at.
Love the articulation in the Leviathan however.
Just wanted to say that the Cos-player you were talking about being on the Infinity stand is Tabitha Lyons. She works/part owns? a company called Artyfakes that produces costume and props for Cosplay and LRP. An incredibly creative woman and company as a whole – http://www.artyfakes.co.uk/
oh also their facebook site is good for a more up-to-date look at the sutff they produce:
https://www.facebook.com/artyfakes
Dreadball for the the prize would allow me entice my friends to play with me!! Yay!
I much prefer the GW Knight mainly because I prefer the look of the paint scheme and fluff for them
After GW cancelled Blood Bowl, I would love to try out Dreadball 🙂
Duuuuuuuuude, Dreadball’s WAY too fun. I have not played tabletop Blood Bowl (just the computer version) so I can’t speak to comparisons. All I can tell you is that DB is a good time.
For the Imperial Knight army, it is hard to say that army is pay to win, a primary detachment of 6 Imperial Knights is $140 each or approx. $900 when you include the codex. Your money may vary depending on currency. While I would say this is not the cheapest army to field, I can say that it is cheaper than both my primary attachments for my Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard) and my Orks, but those are both troop heavy. I believe my Space Marine army is cheaper, but I have been collecting them for so long I can probably field 10000 points of them, so I have no real notion on cost today.
In a tournament I do believe that they are a gimmick army, in that you either have an answer for them or not. Gimmick being used here as a 1 trick pony not as a slight against the Imperial Knight itself or the army per say. I believe I could design an IG army that could beat a IK army 9 out of 10 times, but it would be horrible against Tyranids and Orks. It is the same reason I would probably not allow unbound armies into tournaments, while I like the idea, the primary attachment setup leaves out a good number of the obvious gimmick armies. I would venture an unbound IG Leman Russ army would be even worse as they have better armor and would be difficult for an army that didn’t have a bunch of tank killers to deal with.
So in the long run I agree with the tournament organizers in limiting the use of the IK codex, but without more knowledge it should have not been done at army submission time. When I was an administrator of the Living Greyhawk campaign for the RPGA, all new releases were not allowed until the administrators had a chance to look at the release and make a rules determination. So, I guess the tournament organizers should have a white list of approved sources, if they do good, if not I think they should allow it and add it to a black list after the tourney, as it was their fault the knowledge was not out there.
My goal is to create an independent store in Barcelona, focused mainly on the gaming and food side of it. But it is quite scary to look at the size of the project.
I’ve considered the same thing myself (In Virginia in the States, not Spain). It’s scary starting a business of your own. It’s one of those things I wish I could do while keeping a day job, then if the store made more than the day job, quit and go all in.
I’ve just put it to the wife that I could take some miniatures away to paint when on holiday, I just got ‘the look’… maybe not then! 🙂
I’m in on the Xtreme KS, but not played the original Dreadball before. The Azure forest bundle looks amazing.
I prefer the Imperial Knights. They look just like a mini-titan and I was a sucker for those when I used to play EPIC.
Great show. Loved playing Dreadball with a friend. My own copy would be awesome 🙂
Buy it. Buy it buy it it buy it it buy it it buy it it buy it it buy it . TOTALLY worth it. Plus, if you have a friend who has the main parts, just buy a team that appeals to you, and play that with your friend.
Great show, always love watching on Saturday or Sunday, sometimes even on Monday. 🙂
Dreadball is fantastic – more dreadball can never be bad.
Oh on the Knight vs Leviathan – Knight – Leviathan just looks a little toy like from the images I have seen – sure it is a great hit but don’t like the aesthetic
On the comp discussion – I am a believer in comp in tournaments and pushed for it ones I used to organise with a group – we never got there as people on the organising group preferred min-max lists and %£$%hammer. Overall I think the scene should include both and if one is not popular then people won’t show.
In this instance, any comp pack should be very clear and visible from the start as to comp and what is permitted, at least clearly stating anything off of the ok list needs tournament organiser approval. However I also get why you would restrict such an army – some armies will do well but in general it will be a bad match up for a lot of armies – and if people are playing to be competitive that bad match-up could derail their weekend. Now the chap in question could be taking it because he thinks it’s cool and wants to have fun – and saying you can’t seems harsh as he is being prevented from using what he wants – flip side is what right does he have to turn up with an army that could impact the enjoyment of all or some of his opponents because he has taken a extreme army.
It’s the old social contract thing – in a friendly game you form that social contract – discuss that you want to field all knights and your opponent should go cool, I will be my x (I would have to go dreadmob) and we can have that mangled metal smashfest etc. At a tournament its the comp and rules that creates that social contract – so even if it doesn’t balance the games it can at least take the edges off a bad experience
I really do like the look of the Imperial Knights models but fielding them as a tournament army is a little redicoulus even if you changed their stats. You could only field 2-3 of them against 5 squads with armored support. That doesn’t seem like a really fun battle to me.
I still feel bad for the guy that bought them and painted them though.
Great insights from Ronnie and the future of Mantic Games.
I really regret not throwing in on the Dreadball Kickstarter.
I missed the for DB KS, but I’m all in on the DBX KS. There’s going to be a MOUNTAIN of plastic arriving at my house.
I should also mention here that I love my wife very much.
Lots of good stuff in this one. I’m really quite taken with the new azure forest Dreadball board. And I really envy that table!
Great show! I look forward to these every week.
Can’t wait to check out the dust table.
This is a comment to try to win the prize. Sad thing is, I really just want the Azure Forest board, I’ve got the rest. If there’s a BoW trading forum, the rest will end up on there.
Have I mentioned that it makes me sad that I am in the States so I’mk most unlikely to be able to get into a game with the people on BoW? You guys do seem like good people. I might accost you if I see you in an airport or something and buy you a drink.
I like big bots and i cannot lie….
That is one sweet prize! Think you can talk Ronnie into throwing in some cheerleaders? (I kid!)
The Crusader looks great but I couldn’t justify the cost it or a Knight. But I’ve considered getting some of the Crusader arms to modify into emplaced weapons!
I agree with Loyd when a model becomes too big is ceases to be a model/ “miniature” it becomes a statue.
I want the mega prize! Also it’s got to be the imperial knight for me! The other one looks too cartoony.
Been looking into Dreadball
Great show. I can’t wait to see where Mantic goes with their Sci Fi line.
Hi Warren.
Sorry for the late reply to your post.
My point was the game developers at GW plc are working to a different design brief to those at Mantic Games.
Most of my favorite games are written by developers that have left the ‘restriction of Kirby-vile’/GW towers.
I did not mean to imply that the studio staff at GW towers were not capable of writing good rules, or were not passionate about the hobby.
Just that the restrictions /design brief they are given at GW towers , is less than conducive to rules development resulting in a level of clarity, brevity and balance some gamers prefer.
I am so looking forward to Warpath 3!!!
Another awesome prize up for grabs
It’s the enthusiasm of people like Ronnie & the Beasts of war team that brought me back to war gaming after a long hiatus. Loved watching James on the show but Ronnie is such a character, love that he can’t keep a secret and wants to share his passion with us all.
Great discussion. It is always good to see Gamers keep the scale of the activity in mind when they discuss it. It is such a small activity in the grand scheme of things, we all have to work together to keep it going.
So many great discussion points this week. I would love to see more of the industry insight segments. I love games and as a small business guy I enjoy learning about other industries and how to be successful.
I personally like the love of the Imperial Knight. There is just something about it that I just love. The other one is nice but doesn’t ‘fit’ for a proper Imperial design.
That dreadball pack sounds unbeliavably good. Would love to bring the game to my gaming group.
I really like the Leviathan, it has been put on my growing shopping list.
Looking foreward to see the resistance.
Nice show. Looking forward to getting my DBX gear in November. Enjoyed the history lesson on the Perry’s and other peeps in the industry.
i like the gw imperial nights although i think its cool to add your own flavor to an army after all i am a chef and flavor is everything in life. does any one know if in organised play such as 40k tournaments are proxy’s allowed. i know there not in privateer press official organised play which is understandable. i think that guy should be allowed to play with his knights its an official games workshop codex and in 7th ed with unbound whats to stop any one taking mad fun lists. a complete tank list for instance. surly even the point of tournament play is to have fun with the armies you enjoy
So mantics off to America to bag them a new franchise i really hope its Star Wars that would be epic
… you could cosplay yourself as any of the incarnations of baldur the circle orboros warlock @warzan !!!!
actually,some cosplayers have problems whit more than trash talk………….some people don’t respect there personal space,or their right to not be groped by masses!!!!
they are artists…….they make their stuff….it’s cool!!
Hi guys, great show.
I’m probably too late for the comp, but that’s not the point 🙂 On the topic of Knight vs Crusader: Knights. I’d want them to be compatible with my DA army, working within specific hobby parameters for that army.
@warzan and your cosplay outfit what about the Malifaux Neverborn Cherub? hehehe Cheers
Oh also, great listening to you guys talk while I was painting… the window frames :l
Still havnt played my deadzone since i bought it – not sure if i need another game!
Just a comment on the last item – we had to set up a club in Oxford because the only independent style retailer (who does board and card games) refuses to accept anyone’s market advice. The niche is open in a city of wealthy kids for these things but the independent retailers don’t care to listen…
I really hope it’s not too long a wait for the Warpath kickstarter…
Wow, nice show guys! Mantic seems to become more and more of a big company in the industry, thats cool. That’s great that they have different ranges, they work and invest into all of them, I hope to see them developing even bigger and better with the time. I absolutely like and respect Ronnie’s position on Warpath, the fact they continue the project, learn from the experience and want (and I’m sure will) expand it. I really-really hope to hear and see more on the Deadzone/Dreadball/Warpath universe.
One can never have enough of cool stuff from Mantic 🙂 So I’ve got a question, maybe it’d possible to ask Ronnie sometime (hopefully soon enough, when he’d visit the studio again, I really like him participating) The question itself is: maybe there is a chance for us to see a Dreadball variation in the Kings of War universe? And I don’t mean Bloodbowl variation, no. Dreadball itself is an innovative game, and I like it. Having a fantasy variation with the cool KoW races is gorgeous, I think. I myself already came up with idea for the Basilean team of over-dressed Sisterhood members 🙂
Hope to hear something on the subject from Ronnie, as I believe Mantic CAN do that. Sorry for the big post ) Cheers!
The kickstarter stuff is an interesting one. Will have to wait and see how it ends up affecting the industry, but my instincts are that it is more of a benefit than a problem. Had my eye on some mantic stuff for a while and like the sound of how Warpath is going to be developing.
Great episode guys, love the mantic interview!
Great job. Especially liked the conversation with Rob from Mantic. Hopefully I’ll see you at GENCON Indy. Looking forward to trying out my Purple Nurples at the GENCON Dreadball Tourney!