The Weekender: Not entitled “Space Marine”
February 9, 2013 by dignity
Video Sponsors: Mercs - Battle Foam
In this weeks episode Warren, Justin and Stu have a chat about the latest on Games Workshop, a little about the exciting new Kickstarter Wild West Exodus and Paint... lots and lots of paint...
Release watch:
Warlord Games
Ruined Farmhouse
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/warlord-games/bolt-action/ruined-farmhouse/prod_19580.html
Flames of War
Small Bases (with Figure Holes)
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/flames-of-war/accessories/bases/small-bases-with-figure-holes-/prod_19674.html
Medium Bases 4 (with Figure Holes)
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/flames-of-war/accessories/bases/medium-bases-4-with-figure-holes-/prod_19675.html
Medium Bases 5 (with Figure Holes)
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/flames-of-war/accessories/bases/medium-bases-5-with-figure-holes-/prod_19676.html
Large Bases (with Figure Holes)
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/flames-of-war/accessories/bases/large-bases-with-figure-holes-/prod_19677.html
Mixed Bases (with Figure Holes)
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/flames-of-war/accessories/bases/mixed-bases-with-figure-holes-/prod_19678.html
Soviet Guards Tank Battalion
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/flames-of-war/russians/army-deals/soviet-guards-tank-battalion/prod_19673.html
Wild West Exodus
http://www.wildwestexodus.com/
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wildwestexodus/wild-west-exodus-sci-fi-western-miniatures-game
//www.beastsofwar.com/wild-west-exodus/
Malifaux February Releases
http://www.wyrd-games.net/
//www.beastsofwar.com/malifaux/february-sees-crazies-enter-world-malifaux/
New Carnevale Crocodile
http://www.vesper-on.com/
//www.beastsofwar.com/carnevale/crocodile-ospedale-lurks-waters-carnevale/
Zombicide Expansion Preview
http://guillotinegames.com/en/
//www.beastsofwar.com/board-games/check-mass-zombicide-toxic-city-mall-spoilers/
Rogue Trooper Kickstarter
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/
//www.beastsofwar.com/mongoose-publishing/mongoose-continue-kickstarter-success-rogue-trooper/
Events:
Saturday (today) is our Warmachine 'Spring Spearhead' tournament.
http://tabletopnation.simpletix.com/Event/10/WarmachineHordes-Spring-Spearhead/
The following Saturday is our Carnevale 'Starvation' event, and the Sunday (17th) is Malifaux 'Lost Love';
http://tabletopnation.simpletix.com/Event/13/Carnevale-Starvation-16th-Febr/
And keep an eye out for our Malifaux event:
http://tabletopnation.simpletix.com/Event/9/Malifaux-Lost-Love-Sun-17th-Fe/
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
This just in: George Lucas trademarks the word “stormtroopers”. Amazon pulls 90% of WWII history books.
@somegeezer
Dude I freakin, love your reply…
I won’t even entertain the idea of trying to top it.
However I will try and honor it by posting something that has nothing to do with games workshop
To my fellow wargamers both friend and foe on the table
Dorkness Rising
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOUksDJCijw
actually, I think this is the case, Lucas… or Disney now? HAVE trademarked Stormtrooper. Storm Trooper (which is the actual term) has not been trademarked. Though if you use ‘stormtrooper’ in a non-Star Wars context that’s suggestive that you can’t spell more than any thing else.
Syphilis, quite often mispronounced (misdiagnosed) as dementia in the NHS. Thank you WW2.
Forget ‘clix Superman vs Gandalf. I want to see ‘clix Legolas vs Master Chief!
What’s with the creepy mask and hair in the background? :O
its was from Halloween where Darrell dressed as the sanguinor
shudder!
I find best way to paint eyes use a cocktail stick and dip it in paint on the point
that image gave me nightmares.
Nice show, although I think you missed a few opportunities to make Space Marine jokes 😉
PS – please keep Stu (Stew?!) on the show, really like the format now and think it works well with you bouncing comments off of each other.
I may start to blush…And its Stu!
I’ve never seen harry potter minis, but you may find something as a suitable enough stand in in the discworld range, there’s wizards and all in the rest in there.
Good show again guys, can’t say herolclix is my thing, but I get where warren is coming from there, time is difficult when you have a family, anything that can keep you playing is worthwhile, if you end up sacrificing painting time for a few years but carry on in the hobby , especially the social part, that is playing games, then its worthwhile in my view.
My hope with D&D 5 is that the minis are not like heroclix and their ilk, in that you buy blind, I think it was the biggest failing of the last outing for D&D pre paints, it doesnt really fit in with the nature of what they are used for (by that I mean more people were looking at them for use in D&D 4 than ever were the minis game they tagged onto it) , I want to buy minis to suit my party and the monsters in our adventure, and just those. No random boxes this time.
Just a quick up date..(Just in case you wanted to know.)
‘Spots the Space Marine’ author appears to have got legal representation…
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/mca-hogarth-trademark-bullying-and-free-speech
I am in no way connected to the use of the words ‘space’ or ‘marine’ in any way what so ever.Even though they have been in generic use to decribe ‘soldiers in space’ since 1932…
and her book is in the top 50 on amazon!! 😀
Buy it to support her, like a lot of otters out there. It is in a script style not a normal novel style. have ordered mine and I think it will be a nice change of pace.
A thread has been up in News and Rumours courtesy of mpoke for a few days
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/news-rumors/forum/topic/games-workshop-files-bogus-trademark-claim-against-scifi-author/?topic_page=1&num=15
Great episode guys however I do believe your tea coasters have been copywrited by GW. You guys muct be raking it in if you are using £50 tea coasters, hehe.
Nice to see that the clipboards of doom were sporting summer foliage this week, but I do believe you have let yourself down Warren, the board makes you look like you have gained a few lbs. tisk tisk 🙂
I was a bit concerned about Stuart fondling his big green chopper on camera whislt pulling faces and blowing kisses at the viewers!! :s eek (no offence, just EEEEEK!!)
Nice to see you getting back to your painting Warren and great to hear you are using Vallejo for experimenting with. I love them as they cover really well and feel great when applying them.
I also have problems when using the Magnifying glass, as depth perception is dire to say the least. I once was painting a hero character (“Spot” my Space Marine heroin for my spotty camouflaged space marines) in my studio while experimenting with the mag glass and I nearly got hit by a car on the M25!!! I would have tried again, but I live in Nottingham and it cost me a fortune to get back as I was unprepared and didnt have my wallet on me. Luckily I persuaded a group of crazed nuns to give me a piggy back all the way home! I did have to fill them up at every Costa Coffee between London and Nottm though, but it was worth the giggles, but I digress.
If you are to do a painting session Warren are you going to be sporting a beard of +10 painting skill like Romain and Dave? It should shift the weight that you put on with the clipboard!! 😀
I would suggest painting your Hero Clix with break fluid, not sure if it would melt the plastic, but it would be as entertaining as covering slugs in salt if it does, hehe. (No slugs were harmed in the writing of this response, however, evil thoughts persist).
I think Stuart is onto a winner with the idea of the Lego Harry Potter models for your 2 year old and I have thought of a few ways to protect her against a choking hazard.
1, Cellotape lollypop sticks across the back of the Lego men, thereby increasing the width of the item. Then, if she whams it across the room, there is at least a 50% chance it will come back on its own!! 😛
2, Place a strong elastic band under the jaw of your daughter and up above her forehead. thereby increase the resistance to the jaw opening muscles (Latin: Omnomnomicus Maximus). Preventing ingestion of pretty much anything. You could pretty much go on holiday without putting her in kennels with this method. However I would experiment with the length of time away due to the nutritional needs of a growing toddler. I would start at 2 weeks and build up slowly.
3, Bulldog clip on your daughters lips. Which would be a little easier to apply without placing her in a head lock and teaming up on her with the wife, thus allowing your wife ample time to cook, clean, iron and perform other feminine duties whilst you focus on game development and parental nurturing and quality time with the kids. Ahhhhhhh bless.
Excellent show guys, nice to see all the news in an informative fashion, nice note about searching and visiting other areas of the website for information about events etc. Even Ming got some air time today! however, I suggested Ming the Merciless not “Worthless” as he has some very valid points of view. And while a talk about Ming, was he electrocuted half way through the episode? or does he suffer from seizures? (about 20 mins into the video with my commentators eye).
True love always
Mick
P.s. I am not responsibubbble for anyones lack of a sense of humour whilst reading this response. I do not promote cruelty to slugs as I adopt the privilege to do this exclusively myself (pretty much like the Queen killing/eating swans, man she is so badass). The use of office based resources should only be used as designed in accordance with the data sheet that is supplied. If however, your a budding inventor, IT’S SHOWTIME….. I do not endorse putting growing children in Kennels, each kitchen has a washing machine for a reason (ask da missus for operating instructions and then pretend to be overwhelmed confused and pull faces, allowing her ownership of the situation and doing it for you, thereby increasing her self esteem and value to the household and overcoming her anti-natal depression in the process. Ask for beer, sit back and relax to enjoy the fruits of your labour. For today is good in the typical gaming household).
Have to go now as keyboard batteries are running o
USING THE £50 WARHAMMER 8TH RULEBOOK AS A COASTER
priceless
Just goes to show I really shouldn’t leave my rule book lying around after cheese hunting
Also just noticed stu’s using the 6th ed rule book for a coster to
Yeah but given the size of Stu’s mug, Swampy, he needs something substantial to put his pot on! lol
lol.
Didn’t notice the 6th! Good eyes. I thought I saw the 6th Ed Rulebook but it passed it’s 4+ Cover save so I saw nothing.
Any chance of any unbiased book reviews? 😀 Like a Jackanory style with Andy!!
We are using the latest rule books from GW as coasters for our drinks. How’s that for a review? (Just kidding!)
Truth is, none of us have the time to read and have to rely on Swampy, Darrel and Andy to tell us what’s in each book. Apparently Alpha Strike is the accepted friendly way to play so I’m told by them…
Hehe, or is it that you can’t read and have to rely on wearing a dress whilst carrying out Jedi mind tricks to extrapolate the rule set? 😀
I mean like Sci-Fi books etc. I know you have a lot of work on atm but now it seems that you have a lot of manpower to maybe cover this area? after all, I am sure some of you cover this area naturally in your homes. 🙂
Books such as Wheel of time series (new 14th book has been released, i’m still on audio book 5!!),
Magicians Apprentice series
Horus heresy book 3423895 will be out shortly to 😛
Spots the Space Marine I hear is good, in a script style 🙂
I never said it was friendly Stu.
Lego HP figures would be great Warren.
You can then make terrain from Lego then as the bab gets older you could build together
ps I didn’t bother with a magnifying glass after 5 minutes of being unable to judge the distance
A head loupe provides stereoscopic vision which means you have no problems with getting the brush in the right place.
Highly recommended.
whats a head loop matey? Is that one of those things Stephen Hawkens uses to type with?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rolson-Tools-60390-Loupe-Magnifier/dp/B001MJ0JW2
It is basically like a visor with lenses
This is the one I have
Paid about £15 for it and was money well spent imho
The little led light I never bother with.
The only “problem” with this one is the plastic catch can ping off but it easily snaps back on
The vinyl has split a tad but still is fine after about 4-5 years now.
Nice! lots of different less also. and only £11 with some nice reviews.
Good find that man!
I think GW will fail with the copywrite but if they did, how long before they try and go after Rouge Trooper lol.
I often wondered what would happen with GW if every source of the game was to challenge them on the copyright issues. Such as the Tyranids looking like rip offs from Aliens, Necron being almost exact copies of Terminators, Imperial Guard Sly Marbo being a take on Sylvester “Sly” Stallone’s Rambo, IG storm troopers can be taken as Star Wars imperial storm troopers.
The list goes on and on. Half of the stuff is taken from other artists, literature and marketed products that should hold them accountable for the infringements they themselves have done.
Parody is protected speech.
Since GW’s attitude is almost hilarious, they could pull that defense off.
It’s funny to the point that its sad. Todays GW is a sorry reflection of its former glory.
34:15 You just need to say templates and pointers I’ll be very interested to know why you know about that… Agh i only know C and Python, need to learn C++ for my thesis… But you said that Heroclix rules are as complex as memory management in C ? O.o
About the painting experience it will be nice to have a big painting week ( that could include basing and some terrain ), basic stuff , tricks, tips and some complex ones maybe like some ninja blending techniques using those double light saber brushes from Games & Gears.
By the way, will you do a live for the finals of the Dreadball tournaments or something similar, I’m really a big fan of that game ! Some color schemes will be very much appreciated 😀
I know exactly what you mean about painting and prepaints. I have a stack of shiny new plastic and metal hordes minis waiting for me to get to work on them, but I find myself really enjoying just playing X-wing lately. It used to be that prepaints represented a pretty significant compromise, but there are some out there now that look really good without any help, and there are more that come pre-primed essentially that need very little help to finish off.
It sounds like you’re interested in character minis and whatnot, but if you don’t mind playing with ships I really recommend giving X-wing a shot. The Leviathans minis are also really well done right out of the box and they’re pre-painted with the intent of letting modelers paint on top of them to finish them off (Dust Warfare too). I’m starting to lean in the same direction, just because I don’t have the free time I used to.
commissar in a tank? Drive me closer…
I want to strike them with my sword?
when Stu was talking about buying an opponent it reminded me of my introduction to warmachine where a friend walked up to me told me too close my eyes and hold out my hands and gave me some Menoth models I’ve played several people at it now and have a blast but those models are always in my Menoth when it comes out 🙂 (usually the crusader and revenger). Also glad to hear your daughter is joining the hobby @warzan hope its a good bonding experience!
We true followers of Menoth call it ‘converting a gamer’.
A battlebox in every hotel room next to the Bible in the bedside drawer is our global strategy…
LOL, good lad. However, the bible should not be in the drawer. It should be in your hand, you religious nut case. 🙂 Now you made me feel a bit Giddy..on after that rant. (really am sorry for that one, its the only way I got it to fit, hehe)
Additionally, i notice your bucket says “Don” on it. Does it read “Donkey” all the way around? If so, why is this? cause you drink out of a bucket? 😀
Its naf and there’s no wriggling out of it, bad advice from their lawyers no doubt but IP is a serious thing shame they’ll get their butts burned if it was my company I’d want compensation from the Muppet lawyer who thought this was a good idea. As in a more generic term is hard to come by
Whilst I agree with your comment with regards to comp. I can’t help think that it has actually done her a lot of good. All that free advertising and she is in the top 50 books with Amazon. her Twitter account shows how grateful she is to the community that has assisted her.
Seems Like miss Hogarth believes in Copyright.
Spots the Space Marine:Defense of the Fiddler (yes, that’s the name of the book)
Copyright 2012 by M.C.A. Hogarth
http://www.amazon.com/Spots-Space-Marine-Defense-Fiddler/dp/1470131056/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360472570&sr=8-1&keywords=spots+the+space+marine
And but so?
Why would she not copyright her book?
Space Marine is a Trademark of GW and the any use associated with it
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=&pIndex=5&aId=3900002&start=6&multiPageMode=true
If she doesn’t believe this to be the case as her comments clearly make, why copyright your own work as all the words she used in her book were written before she was even born.
Thats completely incorrect.
GW own the trademark space marines in the toy and game world, not in literature. And her copyright is for the book itself, authors get automatic copyright to their work , usually by posting a manuscript to themselves to authorise the date of the work. This is to protect the book itself, ie the story, characters and world imagery , from being used for profit by others, her copyright does not prevent others from using the term space marine in any way.
It would help to at least have some understanding of the subject before making wild accusations about people
I would suggest you buy some GW products. All I needed to do was open my copy of Galaxy in Flames. The publication details show GW copyright and its associations”, on the next page it has 3 uses of the word “Space Marine” this was first published in 2006 and not their earliest book.
This Bold use of Space Marine is the brand. And Hogarth uses it on her cover.
All you need to do is type space marine in google and go down the list of pages until you come to a page that references space marine without games workshop. Black Library and space marine came in number 15 in my search. This guys print literature. I stopped looking after page 20. The world references space marine as a thing associated with GW and they own the Trademark. While people wrote stories with the words space marine in them as far back as the mid 1930’s they didn’t take out Trademarks on the name.
Ahh , so you are happily proving you dont really understand literary copyright.
Prior art isnt cart blanche to copyright a phrase.
Else GW would be in real trouble, first use of the term space marine in a book?
That would be Captain Brink of the Space Marines – Bob Olsen, 1932
GW have no legal recourse to the term in literature simply because its so generic, they have legal recourse to the adeptus astartes space marines, the world of 40k and the iconography of the world Blanch has visualised for them, none of which is related in any way to the hogarth book, which is a parody of starship troopers if its anything.
The other sore thumb sticking out here is GW going after a self publisher who they would expect couldnt afford to contest them, rather than heinlein who’s power armoured space marines in the starship trooper line are a much closer fit to GW work, but who, of course, is with a major publisher and has access to a bigger legal team than GW do.
The term space marine has been part of the sci fi world for 70 years, it cannot be controlled by a single company, no more than orc can be by the tolkien estate, GW control their version fo space marines, and nothing more. This was some junior in the legal team trying to justify their own wages I should imagine. I would also imagine them not being in a job next week.
I personally feel that GW should sack the entire Legal team to save money and recruit advertising triple agents who would be responsible for building stronger relations with the community and pushing out the brand to a wider audience. E.g. TV ads etc.
A company that refused to change that springs to mind is Nokia. They were once the leading brand in phones until other companies started making 3G types. Now it is all Samsung and iPhone. Guess it is a bit like evolution really. Not that I am wanting GW to disappear, I just want them to improve things their end. If they refuse to, we’ll /toodles.
Hope things improve
Bravo, @nogginthenog !
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
“I personally feel that GW should sack the entire Legal team to save money and recruit advertising triple agents who would be responsible for building stronger relations with the community and pushing out the brand to a wider audience. E.g. TV ads etc.”
The most sensible thing said about this whole sorry affair so far.
@chibi Please don’t go around being slanderous implying I am sensibubble thanks. I have a reputation to protect now I am worth £1.01!! 😀
And my mummy said I was worth as much as a bag of sugar, pah!! wait till I tell her the news /flex
P.s. can I spend these awesome pennies on backstage access? like an elite £1 club? hehe
Don’t think anyone else mentioned it, but I’d be interested to see some more WFB content… as long as those on camera are knowledgeable about the game 😉
You my friend are going to be bang out of luck with the guys presenting the Warhammer stuff…
hummmm ye your really out of luck considering the jokers we’ve got in to do that isn’t he STU
@ravenor what Google showing the most populous internet entries. Well who’d have thought it. What next wikipedia having incorrect facts due to the fact that anyone can edit it. Trade marks and copyright are two entirely different things. Copyright is to stop plagiarism. Trade marks are for brand recognition. So we are not disputing that gw have copyrights on books containing space marines. I am not bothering to explain the point read the other thread.
Great episode guys – not too much to say on legal case but it always amuses me when GW get up in arms about originality. Space marine is a generic term, the adeptus arstates image as space marines is something they could defend. I am still waiting for Mr. Moorcock to turn round and prohibit GW from using his chaos star – how I’d laugh.
Mercs looks interesting, but already expanding to a few more systems at present may have to wait for me to sell off GW stuff.
@warzan Fully agree about intesting in the terrain over minis – although that 2nd or 3rd faction always seems to happen. Any chance you could look at skirmish terrain options for those with limited space or better halves that question the amount of space currently occupied by toy soldiers etc. Got ideas for 3×3 modular boards buts it the scatter and height I find causes issues.
Oh and more fantasy would be good, would be interested to see other people thoughts on current state of the game and ideal point size – my gaming buddies seem to agree on a few core issues, that are holding 8th back atm. Satisfactory game size being one of them.
@warzan Just with you mentioning Harry Potter it reminded me of a blog post I saw on a game called Hordes of the Things (or HOTT as it’s more commonly titled): http://saskminigamer.blogspot.ca/2012/06/magical-ballerina-fairy-on-flying-pink.html
Now I’ve never played HOTT myself but the rules are free and while it’s most often played in 15mm I gather (reason I think is bit like with Heroclix, lower painting overhead) it’s just as easy to do with any existing 25/28mm mini’s and the level of abstraction is the game is such that you literally could play anything vs anything. You could do the Batman vs Gandalf game or even Hogwarts vs The White Council or Spot the Dog vs Space M****** 😉
Like I say, never played it myself but your plea at the end of the show reminded me of that blog post so could be worth a look.
I have played and enjoyed lots of games of HOTT, and I would recommend it to anyone.
Easy to learn, and fun to play!
As long as you base up and class your minatures as per the rules, you can use any minatures and themes you like…
Ha! Warren, I knew you played Prussians! You’re just that awesome.