Weekender XLBS: The DUST Debacle & 40k Tournament Organisation
May 17, 2015 by lloyd
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Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday
Diggers also dug trenches- it wasn’t just the miners. Pretty much all Australian infantry can be called diggers, however it was first used in Gallipoli.
They were also a group of Protestant radicals during the 17th century in England but that’s another story
It’s also a group of small people from early Terry Pratchett’s children’s books, and that IS another story! 😉
Yes, because the most important story is how it was a GorkaMorka Faction.
Happy Sunday everyone thanks for the show fellas
Happy Sunday!
So I skipped ahead to the Dust commentary and @warzan you are correct in your assessment, or i should qualify that it is the way i am reading it also. I got into Dust because of you guys just like falling for Bolt Action is your fault. Dust is a great game and I do hope it survives but I do see a very rocky future. Battlefront has been damaged by their association with Dust and what could have been a great partnership is now a burning bag of doggie doo doo, I must say that Battlefront has treated me… Read more »
The Dust issue appears to be actually resolving itself at the moment, with progress from both sides. But we will wait and see.
Yes fingers crossed the whole thing gets put to bed! (And backers get their stuff!)
As a heavily invested and informed backer I am very disappointed in your one sided view of the Dust Kickstarter. I know you want to keep your “industry” mates but your description of the whole situation is very one eyed. It will be interesting to see the response from Battlefront to the latest Dust studio offer E-mailed yesterday. I can say that independent stores dislike dealing with Battlefront and many have cut ties with the company. Not as rosy as you promote. Much of the stock sent out has been from the stock received from the change in distributor, no… Read more »
Now before your get overly cross, this is a complex topic and one neither company has come out of well (understandably) Now the whole way through this segment (at every opportunity I could) I stressed that the conversation was based on the available public information todate, and even highlighted that when it was a case of ‘believing’ what was written. I think both companies have been at fault here for something that was unessesary. But I also wanted to disuss that these situations are unlikely to be black and white and I thought it fair to mention BF’s past record… Read more »
I understand you needing to take a more neutral view of the “Debacle” but from the beginning Battlefront has handled DUST poorly…many a local store refuse to deal with Battlefront due to their poor distribution and shady reps. One store absolutely hates them as they state Battlefront blatantly lied to them about the ability to return stock that didn’t sell. At times during this mess it felt like Battlefront was intentionally making this difficult so they could divest themselves of DUST. Paolo was very clear when he went public…BF wasn’t paying for items already manufactured or ready to manufacture. BF’s… Read more »
Out of curiosity (and let me be completely clear I don’t know the answer to this!) but do you think Paolo agreed to contribute additional freebies during the heat of the kickstarter and William then overruled the decision and asked BF to pay for them? While I understand a lot of your points it’s this particular point my mind keeps wondering back to when thinking about this. And then the timing of Williams decision comes into play because very few companies would be able to break the shipments up any further in order to buy time to solve the issue.… Read more »
It might be the issue that turned BF towards getting out of the DUST contract…but…I did notice that BF came out with a LARGE range of plastics for FoW shortly after getting the Kickstarter funds…I think that PLUS paying old bills to DS were what really made BF try to get out of the DUST distribution.
If you talk to many retailers they have been having issues getting restocks on DUST products made by Battlefront (new rules, card, etc) and zero issues getting items from Dust Studios…why would battlefront be having problems supplying the DUST things that THEY produce?
@Warzan
“but do you think Paolo agreed to contribute additional freebies during the heat of the kickstarter and William then overruled the decision and asked BF to pay for them?”
I’d put money that is actually what happened!
Ages back on the kickstarter I stated this. The was no issues with the kickstarter apart from delays until Dust mentioned the CEO’s name. He wasn’t even in the picture up till that point. As soon as he was mentioned that’s when the mud slinging begang.
Bean Counters………
He did. He guaranteed 1 Unit per faction and that has always been vocalized. BF said that it was their understanding that they were going to split the cost. This was never the case. The other thing I had a huge issue with in the segment was when you spoke about the 200,000 owing for the first waves of Dust products. This was money owed by Battlefront. They had not paid for 3 waves of production. So William asked if they were ok with settling that cost first instead of waiting until the end and using what was left. BF… Read more »
@Warzan – You asked for the link that showed Paolo categorically denying promising freebies and here it is: https://www.facebook.com/groups/303941853917/10152759139053918/?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D It took me a while to find as it was back in February when this publicly kicked off and Facebook is a nightmare for finding historic posts. For those for who the link doesn’t work, the relevant comments from Paolo are: Paolo Parente Gavin, l have personally discussed with BF CEO every pledge level, providing propositions for suitable items. This does not mean that l ever agreed for Dust Studio to manufacture them for free. For two reasons: 1- the contract… Read more »
Ok I’ve read and read and re-read the above.
And … It’s very convoluted for a denial.
It’s not exactly I never agreed to this, but more of a ‘I agreed these were cool ideas but it’s their fault for not running it past William’
This is why I think both sides are at fault in this 🙁
It is probably true that both sides are at fault, but there is no evidence on either side, so we will never know the truth. However, the backers made a contract with BF not DS, so legally BF are the responsible party for fulfillment. It seems they may have forgotten this small point. I think that some backers will take BF to court if any items are missing from the the final delivery, including the so called ‘freebies’, or a pro-rata refund is offered (which would cost more than the amount DS are asking for them so is unlikely). Although… Read more »
What the heck, Warren stated several times that his opinion was based only on what he has read and that he isn’t privy to what actually happened. And the guys never insulted any servicemen. Take a chill pill dude and lay off the coffee.
I really don’t understand how you could find anything said to be “plain insulting”. The guys already said they aren’t anywhere near experts on the topic of the ANZAC forces or Gallipoli, and thanks to the books they received in their care package, maybe they will rectify it! Maybe instead of just stating you are butthurt you actually inform the guys what they said that was so incorrect and insulting that you felt so deeply wronged as to threaten the “unsubcribe”. As for Battlefront vs DS, I didn’t back it (dodged a bullet there), but I have been following the… Read more »
You really need to lighten up, do you really know well any other country’s history? Im Australian and I bake anzacs (you wont find coconut anywhere in my recipe). These gents never claim to know all about everything, only what they have seen recently. NO one is perfect and we are all entitled to an opinion. But saying you dont like what someone is saying and so im not talking to you anymore (which is how it comes across) is very childish. Be grown up and explain your point of view of whats happening, let us hear how you have… Read more »
A very thoughtful reply and one I will take to heart. I had planned on this as a post script but I got wordy. Would you be so kind as to post your recipe? Now is the time to have a cookie (or a biscuit) and take in a lesson from the past. I have a degree in history and yet it is very limited when WWI comes along. 1812 and the Treaty of Ghent along with the Congress of Vienna and I am doing pretty well, with a refresher :). That is all 200 years in the past and… Read more »
I don’t know anything about the Dust Kickstarter but I really don’t see how anyone would be offended about the BoW attitude towards the ANZAC forces in the 20th century wars. Where is the problem?
A lot of DUST on this, and the Tactics/Battlefield thing is annoying, but as a warfare player, it’s not impacting me. No one wanted Warfare from FFG, and I heard it went back to Paolo, who’s given it to the community basically. Warfare 2.0 should be out before the end of the year.
It will be interesting to see how the community run with warfare!
Happy Sunday, cup of tea and some anzac bikkies………..
Glad to see that you guys enjoyed the package. Why does it NOT surprise that @warzan knocked over an entire tin of bikkies??
I loved em!!!!
It’s a period and theatre we have so little experience of over here but I’m picking my way throug the first of the two books you sent 🙂
Thanks once again, they are some wonderful items to have in the studio 🙂
I think the closest UK version to the ANZAC biscuit would be the flapjack
UK Anzac biscuits are called Anzac biscuits, I know Sainsbury’s sell them Tescos probably do as well.
My highlight this morning was Johns glazed eyes during 99% of the Weird World War Segments.
So John, what do you think about WWWII? Did John get more than 3 words out this episode? 🙂
Sainsbury’s in the UK sells Anzac biscuits 🙂
Whoo Hoo!!!!!!!
If you are right you may have single handedly saved us from ANZAC bikkie withdrawal syndrome! 😉
Yeah I have bought in Sainsburys down in Sprucefield.There the proper ones to from Oz not British remakes
Happy sunday Guys 🙂 @warzan I think you did a decent job I think you were awesome to even bring it up the kick starter I agree both companies made huge mistakes and what you said about fanboys etc i’m sad to say is true in the last 6 months I have seen it way to much I love dust so does my son I hope the game can keep going . We are playing warfare due to not finding cards etc
Happy Sunday….
Interesting show, I have not really any interest in the dust stuff, but it is interesting to see the pit falls of kickstarter.
On the whole weird world war 2 thing… I am very much of the view that all the best stories are true stories, but that may be the historian in me…
However I like idea of Mars attacks I love film. but I look at that whole 1950’s UFO obsessions in the historical context within the paranoia of the 1950’s US and the things like the Macarthy anti communism witch hunts etc….so it works.
Happy Norway Day
Hurra for 17. mai!
And for another XLBS, which I will watch as soon as I get the chance.
Happy Sunday!?!
Warren we’re your fanboys! Just kidding
I knew it, I just knew it! As soon as ‘so called’ Warzan used the term I was just waiting (and I have to pay more than $1 a month to be able to do this btw) for someone to spell “fanboi” incorrectly!!!!?!?
The above is of course meant to be a joke 😉 flavour of what the other extreme would post, (although there may be a better real example a few posts up)
Happy Sunday. I have to admit once again I enjoyed your breakdown of the Dust situation, I am one of the backers as you all know and I’ve been angry for a while. I’ve been saying that both parties are at fault (albeit for different reasons) for a while, its really hard to know who is telling the truth but to me it really feels like Battlefront have been made out the bad guy here but who knows I just want what I paid for, I came in paying for what was advertised (including the freedies) I have no way… Read more »
Happy Sunday!!
Erm… I’ll just leave this here then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nECac7O4hg8
Shocking!
The tournament I ran last was 1850 my first too I should add, we can 3 games which worked for the constraints we had.
To help with the Comp side of things I looked at the “Community Comp” developed in Australia by a number of very experianced people to helo balance the game (for me it just made things easier)
http://www.communitycomp.org/
The other option is just smaller points, 1000 or 1350 points
hi guys happy sunday to you all! @warzan I have to say I admire that you trying to solve / translate all the informations given by dust and BZ but I think { you maybe not realizing it } it look s like you are on Battle zone side, especially after email BZ send and you trying to expalin it, I think you missed few important bits – and thing that Battle zone had order list already in DECEMBER abnd claining that never got it from Dust, 2- BZ customer service is shite on so many levels – I am… Read more »
I completely get your point about your personal experience with BF, the reality is though everyone has a horror story about some company (I have a few myself lol) but when looking at this stuff I kinda have to take a more general view on what a company is doing. BF have given rule books free of charge to all existing players, they also ran the kickstarter in a fashion that LFGS’s could get onboard and make a little profit, generally they have worked hard on customer and store relations. (And again I think it’s worth mentioning to frame that,… Read more »
well aparently all has been sorted out and we will see wave 2 shipping in a week time. but …. time will show. all the best @warren.
Latest from Paolo is that BF have refused to pay for the INCENTIVES and so are likely to only put out a PO for the actual wave 2 iitems. They are still claiming their £200k profit they’ve paid of their old debt with doesn’t exist it seems…
I have never had a bad experience with BF…but I have never dealt with them.
I DO know of at least 4 stores in my area (West of Boston, MA) that refuse to deal with BF anymore due to issues when they used to carry their products. these store range from the below average to great game stores.
That is telling.
Happy Sunday,
Good luck for the BootCamp will everyone from the BOW team be taking on a Dad’s Army character personer for the weekend.
http://www.1914-1918.net/Gallipoli.htm Oat-Meal biscuits or biscuits AB (always broken as known by squadies in the UK)
IHappy Sunday.
Im coming up to hang out with you lads next weekend and Im not at all historically minded so if you want to go ahead and point up those Martians Id be happy to have a go at taking Pegasus Bridge.
Im a bit nervous I have to say if Im being honest but Im also a bit excited.
Any news on a guest?