New Kharn The Betrayer & Sorcerer Sculpt Coming To Warhammer 40k/30k
August 24, 2016 by brennon
This week we got to see the leaks of a new Chaos Sorcerer, most likely in the form of Ahriman and his Thousand Sons for Horus Heresy era gaming, but Games Workshop's Warhammer TV countered this with a video of their own showing off the redesign of Kharn The Betrayer for Warhammer 40,000.
Here's the miniature they previewed in a short video over on Facebook. He certainly looks as bloodthirsty and dangerous as he did before...
Folks have always said that Khorne are one dimensional in the way they play - simply charging forwards towards the enemies. While that might be the case, I really enjoyed allying myself with Khorne once in a while and just focusing on one way of fighting.
That and it was always fun to coat your miniatures in blood!
You can check out the sprues for the Chaos Sorcerer/Librarian HERE and on the link at the top of the page. It looks like another nicely detailed kit and could hint towards an upcoming box featuring both Space Wolves and Thousand Sons battling it out on Prospero.
Which Chaos Power do you serve?
"...that and it was always fun to coat your miniatures in blood!"
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Too busy for me. Also, for once the art looks worse than the model.
I agree that it looks too busy. Some times less is more and Kharn would had benefited from lot less details.
I don’t think it does look too busy myself but each to their own. I think the sense of motion around the sculpt makes it look ‘busier’ than it is compared to him standing still as before.
Better to see a Khornate warrior charging into combat than hanging around giving orders heh
It does look busy to me also, but it’s less to do with the motion and more to do with mistaking over-design for detail, which has been a feature of some current GW sculpts. It’s not the worst offender by any means, though.
I honestly dont see the over design here myself, other that it being practically 100% faithful to the source artwork, to which i refer to the Kev Walker Inferno #1 cover artwork, seriously it looks like about 20 secs after that cover, like he’s at the top of the hill and now he is charging @redben Perhaps the bigger story is the counter leak though?, if you watch the vid on facebook its about the most un GW response i could imagine! “Some of you may have seen this sprue on the internet, yeah its good, but what about this!”… Read more »
I don’t really understand the phrase “over-design”. Can you elaborate?
My take is that a lot of GW’s recent mini’s have suffered from too much detail allowed through over enthusiastic CAD work. Whilst i dont mind it on characters, on rank and file troops it seems a bit OTT and frankly annoying as it looks pants if you dont bother to paint it. That and quite a few of the recent releases (assasins, harlequins, some of the death watch sculpts) have taken the dynamic pose to the nth degree where they can look really sill/out of context due to the excessive movement in the sculpt, i.e. here i think karne… Read more »
Yeah that puzzled me as well. Maybe it the same thing as “over-gold” from I’m Gonna Get You Sucka.
@nakchak has the essence of it, @lunchbox. CAD sculpting allows for lots of detail to be added to a sculpt, and the GW sculpting team has had a tendency to want to utilise that since they switched over. The problem with it is that there’s a fine line between a mini being detailed and being over-detailed, the latter of which can make a mini look busy instead of detailed. Some of the European trad sculptors (such as MIKH or Yannick Hennebo) are great at capturing a lot of detail, but GW are too often guilty of just cramming details on.… Read more »
If it helps, the first thing I see when I look at the mini are spikes, skulls, chains, and a codpiece. I notice the detail before I notice the mini, when I should notice the mini, and then the detail. Once again, this is mine own eyes, other opinions are available.
@redben. That’s all preference though. This isn’t stuff produced for galleries, it’s mass produced toys for mass consumption. Some people like it, some people don’t, as evidenced by the comments. Your critique, while constructive, is entirely your opinion and not fact. Not that I’m claiming you said it was fact but this model is “over-designed” to your taste, it’s not “over-designed” in itself.
Sorry, seems I was confused by the phrase “mistaking over-design for detail”.
Was wondering what “over-design” was. As a degree-qualified, professional designer I have never heard of it.
What you actually mean is that the model is too detailed for your liking (over-detailed?). While I agree the model is very busy, I find it doesn’t hurt now and again on special character minis. To each his own though. Thanks for clarifying.
A degree means nothing, not today anyhoo. You just need a decent memory. “Over design” – they just didn’t know when to stop adding crap to the mini. That was easy and I don’t have a degree in design.
So @unclejimmy , if your degree isn’t in design, mind me asking what it is in?
As I said, it’s the confusing distinction that @redben makes between over-design and detail. Turns out they’re the same thing. Who knew?
If I “just need a decent memory”, what exactly am I supposed to be remembering?
Also, as @erastus says, please enlighten us on your qualifications if a “degree means nothing”. From your seemingly never ending general knowledge of life I’d guess its a PhD in talking sh*t.
@lunchbox my understanding of the phrase over-design would be not knowing when to stop adding things and tweaking. Also never using a design loop to reflect and pairing the design back to the original brief.
In my view in this instance this has happened, a more dynamic Kharn has lost true dynamism as the detail has cluttered and obstructed the motion.
Of course that is subjective as is all design. Without knowing the brief it is hard to address if the is good or bad design truly objectively.
“Once again, this is mine own eyes, other opinions are available.”
I posted just after this 😉
I also started my first comment with this –
“It does look busy to me”
Which is what I was referring back to when I wrote “Once again”. I will obviously defend my opinion and I maintain the way the detail is done detracts rather than adds, and the mini would look better if the sculptor had a better idea of how to use the detail, but I wouldn’t tell anyone they shouldn’t like the mini. If you love it, then great 🙂
Yup fair enough. Shouldn’t need to defend your opinion though, no one needs to. You like or you don’t, the why is just talk 😉
“Shouldn’t need to defend your opinion though, no one needs to”
Except me.
Minis like this are difficult to compose- the business can be taken down in the painting. He is going to be a difficult mini to compose- many small fiddly bits combined with the mask (a face would have served as a better break for the center of interest). However, I think he could look pretty brilliant if you paint him up right. On the artwork- when I see 40k art anymore, I always feel that it is a shame that GW is still using GW anatomy. Space Marines (and Imperial Guard) look so much better in the artwork that doesn’t… Read more »
Agreed. True-scale this mofo and he’d be epic.
…that and the sculpters are terrible!
“Also, for once the model looks better than the art.”
Corrected it for you.
Good to see your usual sparkling positivity on a GW article.
Sigh… the personal attacks have started early, even by GW thread standards. If I liked the model I would have said so.
I never said you liked it.
@erastus maybe, if the following things were not true in this instance:
a) 1 comment has generated a 1/3 of the replies not discussing the topic, or what was said but more who said it
b) it wasnt only @cpauls1 who seems to be on the receiving end of it
c) the comments aimed at him were not getting increasingly off topic and personal
so no in this case i don’t read it as gentle ribbing, but more singling out for daring to post a dissenting comment on a GW article
I simply pointed out that every cloud has a silver lining. Where one person sees:
“for once the art looks worse than the model.”
I see
“for once the model looks better than the art.”
Not sure what all the fuss is about to be honest.
@nakchak I can see how it might come across like that. Tell you what, I’ll apologise to @cpauls1 for making fun of him, if he apologises for some of the vile things he’s said in the past.
Only GW cultists get insulted when some one says that he or she does not like some GW product instead of just excepting opinions of other people. You don’t see fans of any other game company being so immature and insecure that they would demand everyone to like same things as they do. Basically in they eyes if you say anything negative about GW product you are hater or troll while if they say something negative about product of some other company it’s basically viable opinion. No one should have to defend they opinions without getting attacked no matter what… Read more »
@mecha82 honestly mate, you couldn’t be more wrong on this one. Lots of people criticise GW releases and nobody is offended, nobody gets criticised or attacked because of it.
Except me.
@cpauls1 I obviously can’t speak for anyone else, but the reason I’ve been making fun of you has nothing to do with the fact you criticised this miniature. Honestly.
As @erastus says, its nothing to do with anyone’s criticism of any single miniature. For me its the blind negative criticism of anything and everything that one company do while hypocritically getting upset when other people criticise their favourite games or minis. It is the crying when called out as a troll. It is the accusations that anyone who offers positive comments about a GW product must be a cultist. It is having to defend one’s opinions on other companies’ miniatures while getting told by others that they shouldn’t have to do the same. It is many other reasons but… Read more »
Thing is though, one can set one’s watch by your negative comments in a GW article. I’d love to set my watch by your positive comments in other articles regarding other companies output but that would be like trying set your watch on a leap year…..
Does this in any way affect your enjoyment of the 40k universe? I think you underestimate how negative comments can be translated into actually caring about the quality of GW minis.
Oh no not at all, in fact I actively check if cpauls1 has made a negative comment in 40k articles on BoW because it amuses me greatly. I rarely comment myself as I haven’t got time (or even really care) but I think I got sucked into this one because of someone else’s comment and his reply. And yes, you make a good case for seeing this from someone else’s perspective. But here’s mine:- Why do you care? Buy or don’t buy. If so, do you care that much that you’ll relentlessly return to be endlessly disappointed release after release… Read more »
I like cpauls1 comments. His determination to find something about every GW release that he can criticise, is hilarious. Although I did notice he let an AoS related item pass by uncriticised recently. He needs to up his game.
There was nothing good or bad to be said.
people have their reasons for disliking stuff, for @cpauls1 he has some pretty sound reasons for his dislike of GW as a company due to some unfortunate run ins with store managers with napoleon complexes to amongst other things. frankly it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t like GW’s stuff or doesn’t post “everything is awesome comments” when their products are featured here, as for trolling the only ones i see doing that are those who feel the need not accept his point of view and feel the need to reply not to the topic at hand but in dissecting his… Read more »
Oh come on @nakchak it’s just bit of gentle ribbing of one of BoW’s most vocal users. ( nowhere near as bad as some of the stuff he’s posted … Oops did I post that out loud?)
Maybe I’ve got it all wrong.
Maybe if we all vocalise our opinion of every single model we don’t like in the same manner as @cpauls1, the world will be a better place full of better miniatures from better game companies.
I’m gonna give it a try more often.
You might have a point @lunchbox . Maybe I’ll start going to every single news item and feature about Infinity to tell people I find Infinity miniatures a bit boring. That way Corvus Belli will start making stuff that appeals specifically to me. 😉
Amusingly, Corvus Belli were the first company that popped into my mind also @erastus. But you can’t talk about disliking them. People might get upset by it.
You make a fair point.
Um, yes @lunchbox and @erastus . That is EXACTLY what you should do: visit the threads of other companies and offer your opinion, good or bad, as adults do, but without all the vitriol.
And yet @cpauls1 you once had a go at me for criticising an Infinity release. Hypocrisy? Honestly though, I don’t care if you criticise GW. I’m just having fun with you cos it’s you. As I said, I’m willing to apologise and never to it again if you return the favour and apologise for something you did which bothered me. Offer still stands 🙂
@cpauls1 “offer your opinions as adults.. without vitriol”.. ha
You purposely bad mouth every GW release because a store manager was mean to you and banned you from the store and now you have some never ending vendetta against them. Worse is that you cry “personal attacks” are being made against you when someone calls you out on it.
Pot, meet Kettle.
I said the model looked to busy, as did a number of people. You can read into that whatever you want.
@mecha82 thats exactly it
At least he’s not suffering from foot on rock syndrome!
Which is worse, foot on rock syndrome or this battle is being fought on a bowling green syndrome? 🙂
Personally think he looks brilliant
Really captured one of my fave bits of gw artwork ever
http://www.sprubitz.co.uk/ekmps/shops/sprubitz/images/inferno-tales-of-fantasy-adventure-issue-1-games-workshop-comic-magazine-1037-p.jpg
…just add skulls for instant miniature appeal. Way too much detail and what is on the top of his head? Pretty poor effort for an awesome character. Still, don’t fret, not long until 40K gets AoS’d. Nil desperandum.
I hope they AoS 40k sooner rather than later. It’ll certainly clear up a lot of the rules and make it a better game.
I think he was talking from a fluff perspective.
That’d be cool too IMO. Abbaddon’s 13th crusade finally getting underway and making it all the way to Terra after all these years. Warp storms tearing apart the fabric of reality all across the Imperium. Primarchs (daemon or otherwise) rising up to lead their forces once again. Another massive battle at the gates of the Emperor’s palace where after years of fierce warfare which reduces much of the planet to ruins, the Emperor’s corpse-frame is finally destroyed by Abaddon himself but rises again from death as the new God Emperor of Mankind….. Sigmar!
Quite frankly that sounds horrible. I’m all for moving the fluff forward, but like with Fantasy, I don’t see why that has to come at the expense of the whole setting. By all means have Chaos smash through the Cadian Gate and establish a beachhead in real space in the neighbouring systems, have half the Imperium secede (maybe the Space Puppies could be the poster boys for the marines that side with the ‘rebels’), have swaths of the galaxy consumed by ‘nids or retaken by ‘crons and have the Tau expand into the eastern Imperium, but totally fucking up the… Read more »
Each to his own I suppose. One man’s horror is another man’s awe.
Not a Khorne fan so not that blown away by Kharn, but I do like that he looks like his old sculpt but in a different pose rather than completely different like GW have done in the past when updating characters. As a Thousand Sons player I’m more stoked over the sorcerer, and if there are more Sons sculpts like that in the pipeline it might be enough to bring me out of hibernation and play 40k again. I like the added detail of the dead Space Puppy to decorate the base, even if it ends up falling under ‘foot… Read more »
Interesting, I look forward to that!
I think GW have nailed it with Kharn. I know not everyone likes the GW style, but in all honesty I think they’re the best made miniatures on the market. Having spent the afternoon cursing at a rare purchase from a different company as I tried to make the bits go together 🙁
I agree on to much detail in areas. The hip-guard armor plates are new and not necessary. And while they appear historically, the blue helmet tastles could have been removed. Also, skulls and chains are always things GW makes out of scale, and in this case the oversized skulls and chains clutter the mini.
Remember GW, a skull fits inside a head, and a head fits inside a helmet. So, a skull should be significantly smaller than a helmet.
Kharn looks a lot more dynamic than the last version. Khorne aren’t my favourite (Grandpa Nurgle is my guy) but he’s certainly a great improvement.
The 1K Sons marine is very exciting though. Definitely a 30k Librarian, not a 40k Chaos sorcerer. Everyone knows the only good Space Puppy, is a dead Space Puppy!
The Kharn mini doesnt look better or worse than the old version in my opinion, its ok just nothing special. Not a bad mini by any means.
There is a rumour that the thousand sons sorcerer is actually a heresy era Ahriman.
Heresy era plastic character models is certainly an exciting prospect.
Are they part of a new starter set like Betrayal ?
Kharn would look lovely painted a nice bright yellow, with orange and pink to contrast. You know, Big Bird’s colors.
I love the new mini although I still have a lot of affection for the old one. I actually think most of the Chaos characters have aged quite well, the only one I think is in dire need of replacing is Abaddon.
@cpauls1
Agree on the artwork. He looks like he’s pulling some kind of cheerleader flourish. Which is a pity as some of the old Kharn artwork was excellent. The cover they did for his recent book was tripe as well.
@lunchbox
Correcting someone’s grammar? Really?!
Nope. Try again.
I quite liked the old model. This one is ok, I’d probably be more interested in this one for conversions than using as Kharn…
I like it. May need to pick it up and use the AOS models to make an epic World Eater warband. Good going GW!
…hopefully they also release a cool Thousand Sons kit. I hate that old sprue…
a nice none static figure.
Needs more skulls.
And cowbell!
i quite like it and think it is a hell of a improvement over the old one. Khorne isn’t really my boy however, I tend to prefer Tzeench or Nurgle. (I mean could Khorne smile once in a while , all that scowling and roaring, it must get tiring)
I’m liking the new plastic clam pack characters. Some of the old metal and finecast models suffered a bit from fairly wooden poses but they’re getting some great poses in the new plastic kits
Well it’s about time poor old Kharn gets some love. I just hope that GW doesn’t come out with new rules for him like when he first appeared back in the late ’90s. I remember I used to work for GW back then and we ( at the store ) decided to test the rules HQ just sent us with the model ( pre-sale ) so we knew what to expect and how to sell it. And boy it took me 3x reapers lascannons , 1 dreadnought and a squad of marines to kill him and he actually died after… Read more »
OP 3.5 Codex Kharn was the boss! Everything in that codex was insane though. Good times.
I quite like the look of the new model, I think it’s better than the old model. Rank and file miniatures are fine with low detail but I do like characters with animation and flair 🙂
Not a fan of the posing on Kharn, his legs have turned so beefy running doesnt even look like an option for him .. the sculpt itself is ok imo, but i like the old model better
They’ve managed to cram more skulls onto him! Which in this case, I’m totally fine with. Not a total redesign of old Kharn, and a much better pose for the “nutter with an axe” – not standing flat footed waving Gorechild at the sky like the previous model.
I still wonder whether or not he’d be a lot less angry if he wasn’t consistently being tripped up by the 40 feet of chains he insists on carrying about with him though…
GW continues to knock it out of the park. Responding to a leak with an even cooler leak, what a time to be alive.
@cpauls1
Well done mate, with one sentence you managed to spark more debate about yourself than Kharn! 😀
I don’t suppose any of the chaps accusing you of being the GW Antichrist have wandered through the forums recently and spotted all the Kroot you’re currently working on. Or that your previous long term project was an Imperial Guard Valkyrie?
Can you imagine how much fun this thread would have been with that negative thumb we used to have? 😀
Yeah, weird isn’t it?
When they see him post it’s seems to be enough for them to attack him no matter what so clearly they don’t care to look what projects his working around. It’s that immature behavior that makes them attack him over his opinions. Poor @cpauls1 for being targeted.
@mecha82 you are defending someone who has regularly criticised, insulted and attacked other people, then plays the victim when he gets it in return. I’ve lost count of te number of times he’s insulted me because my opinion was different from his. Yeah poor @cpauls1
@erastus so you keep saying but were is proof for that claim? All I see here is you and @lunchbox ganging up on him.
The beauty of BoW @mecha82 is that you can look back at every post anyone has ever made
Thing is @erastus that I don’t have time to look at every post that one person has made here in BoW just to see if some one has legit claim or not if they don’t want to show proof because it’s not my task as user to do so.
Okay @mecha82 you for you. One of, in my opinion of course, the most vile comments ever made on BoW. A comment to the effect that middle eastern civilian buildings are best viewed through the gun sights of an American military jet. Words like racist and Islamophobic spring to mind, but that’s just opinion.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/crescent-root-studio/middle-eastern-15mm-terrain-crescent-root-studio/
If @cpauls1 is willing to apologise for this, then I’ll apologise to him and never criticise him again.
Thanks for sharing that link @erastus
And a plastic Heresy era Ahriman, which pretty much confirms the next Horus heresy plastic boxed set is Fall of Prospero-themed.
GW really are on the ball lately.
@erastus Mate, you’re generally someone I agree with on here. We’ve a shared love of the 40k universe so our views tend to line up. And your recent mini pics were boss. We all expect these back-and-forths when a GW news item pops up. The lads are all familiar combatants and I’m sure most of them type their comments with tongues firmly in cheeks. Nobody here seriously thinks they’re going to change their opponents mind on the hobby they love (or the bits they hate). But you’re now dredging up comments two years old to actively gather support against another… Read more »
I looked at that link from @erastus and I admit that @cpauls1 went overboard with that one but we all go overboard some times. After all we are only human so we make mistakes and (hopefully) try to learn from those. Yes, I did also go overboard because of how @erastus and @lunchbox kept attacking @cpauls1 but I am mature enough to admit it instead of claiming that it’s all fault of other guy or gal. There is enough personal attacks in internet that we don’t need those here in BoW.
What I see is people like @mecha82 getting offended at people’s comments and defending “poor” defenseless @cpauls1 from nasty horrible people who want to say nasty things about his God-given right to say whatever he likes, regardless of who he offends. @mecha82 even goes as far as to call people childish for picking on him.
@erastus is simply pointing out that the last person who needs defending by anyone is surely a bigoted, racist veteran with 30 years military service.
I don’t think it sours anything. Just serves as example that @cpauls1 may not be the downtrodden victim he pretends to be.
Yeah @irredeemable I’ve probably gone too far but I’ve honestly had enough of certain individuals who behave in horrible ways then play the victim when anyone calls them out on it. I could have linked many many examples of cpauls1 being the class act he is, I just chose the worse.
Anyway, I’ve honestly had enough. I’m off.
Sorcerer maybe nice, little hard to tell from the sprue – but does seem to support 1k sons v the rout soon as a boxed game. My old Kharn won’t be being replaced – they have gone for a dynamic pose then buried it in detail so you cannot see the lines of the motion and he just looks like he is falling forward. I must agree with @nakchak that the biggest story was picking up on a leak and presenting their own leak. Shows a much more aware social media presence, or its a very clever double leak that… Read more »
I wonder how much of it you could fix with tinkering though. I like the mini overall but there are details I’d play around with. Whatever seems to be in the middle of his helmet would be the first thing to go. And I don’t think I’d go for all the brass trim. Painted red I think it’d give the armour much more definition and presence on the model. And all those chains would be rusted browns and reds so they’d stand out less.