The Weekender XLBS: GW Annual Report & Sons of Anarchy Revealed!
August 3, 2014 by warzan
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Ah the weekend. I too made a silver foil hat you can never be too careful
Happy Sunday
GW make more money if they sell two Murderfangs direct than if they sell three through independent retailers. As their margins get tighter, it makes sense for them to direct as many sales as possible straight to them, even if it mean the overall sales drop slightly. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see the day soon that new armies are only available via GW on release, and filter out from there.
That’s true of course, but that has always been the case, I believe the reason it is more imperative for them now, is the increased competition in the market place. Lets be honest there are definitely some games that can compete with 40K now.
It’d be very interesting to know if GW now fear competition from other games. I do agree that keeping people out of independent stores has that benefit. I do also think that GW used to see the independent stores as filling in the gaps that their retail chain couldn’t get to, but now they see the website doing that. They also are pushing to minimise costs and maximise revenue as much as possible. Part of that means pushing customers to direct channels. For the independents it means getting them to buy as much product as possible through their T&Cs, which… Read more »
I would say that some of the KS games do constitute a significant percentage of LGS sales, but only after their launch. During the 2008 downturn, we had a major shakeup in our LGSes in my town. Two of the largest and best-known stores closed (and several more in the surrounding cities within 50 miles did as well), and shortly after (during the uptick that started the current industry growth cycle in 2010) a bunch of new stores opened up to take their place. One of these new stores, which is one of the more successful ones currently, refuses to… Read more »
@mpopke “So yeah, for the duration of a kickstarter campaign, it arguably takes sales out of the retailer’s pocket, but once the product is on shelves and has some hype behind it, it puts it right back.” This may be debatable. Two of my friends, both own competing LGSes, have both ‘been on record’ as having several KS backed products on shelves doing nothing but gathering dust. The fundamental problem being, was the kickstarter enough to kickstart momentum, or was the entire consumer base for the product fulfilled by those who chose to kickstart it in the first place. Obviously… Read more »
I don’t think KS is quite the threat to retail that it’s cracked up to be, though I don’t doubt some products don’t follow through with retail sales and can burn an LGS who stocks them. Then again, my LGS got burned stocking Infinity and wound up selling almost all their stock at a massive discount.
All of that said, my point was more that I think GW and their T&C’s are more of a threat to LGSs than KS.
Yeah, obviously some kickstarted products are never going to be successful beyond the initial drive. The difference between those and normally funded projects is that they get to store shelves at all, whereas normally funded projects that aren’t successful just tend to never get made. I’m curious to see if X-Wing can maintain the momentum it has built. It’s a huge seller right now, and a lot of store owners are happy to stock it. But how long can they keep it up? At what point does that well run dry? I think Warmahordes has the capability to support a… Read more »
Speaking of competition, Rick Priestley is currently working on his Sci-Fi game Gates of Antares, and it’s looking very promising indeed (having a read through the alpha ver. right now).
And if I’m not totally wrong, Warlord is also working on a fantasy version based of the Hail Cesar rules.
That could be two games in direct competition with GWs two behemoths.
Where can I find info the the game Warlord is working on? That sounds interesting.
Shoot, I was trying to give you a thumbs up on your comment (because I too want to see a fantasy Hail Caesar), but my mouse found the edge of the mat unexpectedly, and I accidentally hit the thumbs down. Apologies, and could someone at BoW maybe fix that for me?
I heard it a couple of episodes back on the Meeples&Miniatures podcast, or I at least I thought I heard it on the M&M podcast. But now I can’t find that damn episode again, so it could be an entirely different podcast I heard it on.
Any who, during an interview the guy being interviewed says (I guess unintentionally) that some lads at his local club are play testing a fantasy version of Hail Ceasar from Warlord. And from what I understood, this was no home brewed rules they where playing around with.
While we’re on the subject of fantasy systems, I’ll again take the opportunity to point out that you can currently get Jake Thornton’s fantastic God of Battles for just £12.50.
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/gob/god-battle/
From June 2013 for 40K GW have released Eldar, Iyanden, Farsight Enclaves, Apocalypse, Black Legion, Space Marines, Adepta Sororitas (Sisters of Battle), Sentinels of Terra, Inquisition, Clan Raukaan, Tyranids, Legion of the Damned, Imperial Knights, Crimson Slaughter, Militarum Tempestus (Stormtroopers), Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard), 7th ed and Orks. From June 2013 for WFB they have released Lizardmen, Dark Elves, Dwarfs (8 years waiting) and Wood Elves (9 years waiting). That’s a lot of new/revised content within 12 months. Many can argue with me but IMHO the high prices are causing the problems. They do not affect me in example because… Read more »
“Eldar, Iyanden, Farsight Enclaves, Apocalypse, Black Legion, Space Marines, Adepta Sororitas (Sisters of Battle), Sentinels of Terra, Inquisition, Clan Raukaan, Tyranids, Legion of the Damned, Imperial Knights, Crimson Slaughter, Militarum Tempestus (Stormtroopers), Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard), 7th ed”
I highly doubt they can do this every year.
Something has to change. And from my own knowledge of business – same only smaller – well that’s just not the way to go…
They have worked hard to reduce their overheads over the last few years but with all these major releases they still haven’t managed to increase their turnover. Instead they seem to work hard at reducing the turnover even more. A sale is a sale after all, It doesn’t matter who makes it for them. Even the profit margin on an independent sale v GW direct sale is debatable, GW don’t have to pay for the independent store’s overheads and they don’t have to sit on the unsold stock.( I’m presuming they don’t put stock into the indy stores on consignment).… Read more »
I agree with you @Thrawn, I think price has got a lot to do with it. Some of the prices are just ridiculous – for example, a single plastic SM Libby for £18, with limited to zero options for conversions / posability is just insane. I’ll show my age a bit here, but when I first got started on this long journey I bought a metal SM tac squad for £10. Now of course the comments around inflation etc etc come into play, but that same squad has now been replaced with a plastic one, and the price has spiralled… Read more »
Excellent points. They have pushed their price points beyond what the market will bear and sales are reflecting this fact. They have cut input costs to the bone. The only place to go from here is price reductions to drive higher sales. They should have never gone into the retail side of the business. Let independents bear the costs of running brick and mortar and simply supply them……much cheaper and more efficient. Cheers!
All Hail the mighty THRUST !
I have a copy of ‘battle of five armies’ that GW brought some years ago, may be they may reissue it.
Another good show, but please stop interrupting mike.
The only downside to the weekender is that I have to wait another week for the next one.
Superb show once again. Looking forward to seeing more of Killian and Mike.
The Silmarrillion is actually my favorite of Tolkien’s “big 3” works, as it reads like a series of short stories or myths & legends. I always liked how it runs through the various ages of the world, and how the Third Age that The Hobbit & Lord of The Rings mark the end of is so different from the ages that came before- in terms of the power of those involved and the geography of the world. You get the story of Beren & Luthien that Aragorn mentions in Fellowship, and has such parallels to his & Arwens relationship. There… Read more »
i think that the silmarrillion is a MUST read! It, for me, really brought the universe alive. but it’s one hell of a tough read, i never read the book myself i listen to the whole thing on audio book, this is what i would recommend to warren or anyone wanting to read it. i tried many years ago to read it but it was such a hard read i gave up but when i found the audio version, it made so much more sense and it is beautiful read as well, i can’t remember who reads it, but all… Read more »
When I first picked up the Silmarillion (when I was about 12, or maybe a couple of years older), I was put off by the complexity of the first few pages. But when I went back to it a few years ago, I really enjoyed it. It’s worth pointing out that it doesn’t go on like the first few pages for the whole time. You can read it in chunks. Chapters describe different parts of the mythology and the history. You don’t need to understand every word or name on your first read through. Which isn’t to say you have… Read more »
Also, ref Sons of Anarchy: A friend showed me an interesting article that got into how the origin of the show was to tell an updated version of Hamlet, and if you look at the shows initial setup that holds up – you have king dead in murky circumstances, whose closest friend/ brother has married his queen, claimed his thrown and adopted his son….
That is true though Kurt Sutter has been keen not to overplay it. It was an element that went into the story but one of many.
Boycott Workshop. They started the industry, became way ahead of their time but from that success another industry has started. One where gamers have a multitude of games and systems to play all under one roof. Gone are the days where one war game was enough. If Workshop don’t want to be a part of the very industry they created that’s their fault. I for one would love to see them open up to the now full scale of the hobby, but I might swell ask for it to rain Titans… Also in my experience the success of an independent… Read more »
I think companies don’t start anything, people do, and as Apple decadence after Steve Jobs left, in a similar way (apparently they like to be compared with Apple) all the great creative minds behind GW golden age are gone (with the exception of JJ and JB), i’m not surprised people are looking more and more towards Warlord Games (WG eheh….)
I remember the days when a local game shop could stay open just by selling Pokemon cards……..
Just listened to ‘Metal Christmas ‘. Way to go Warren. Will now be on my Christmas play list.
Any chance of the other songs still being around ?
I will have to try finding them lol
hey Warren I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned but GW used to have the Warhammer Record Label, so it wasn’t inspired by, they actually had several metal/rock bands like Wraith, UFO, Bolt Thrower. Album sleeves where a lot of old GW artwork. With issue 50 of WD there was a flexi disc of “Blood for the Blood God” I have a copy of it if I can find it you really need to hear it at some stage.
Have a GW cd some where, will have to dig it out.
A good way to ease yourself into the Silmarrillion is to read “The Children of Hurin”. It’s basically one of the most readable and best narratives in the Silmarrillion heavily edited by Christopher Tolkien to make it more accessible.
A Crustcore Thrash band from Sunderland called Trinity Shot have a song about you guys called Beasts of War , they are recording an album (their 2nd or 3rd I think) and it’s all inspired by Warmachine , Horus Heresy , Infinity etc .
I’ve been doing some work for them and in rehearsal they played it , I’ll try and get them to send you a copy .
Some metal pedantry for you.
The EP given away with White Dwarf was from Nottingham band Sabbat, who generally had nowt to do with GW (at least musically).
Bolt Thrower, from Birmingham, did at least two albums with WH40k content. Realm of Chaos (IIRC their 2nd album) had GW’s blessing and featured the artwork from Rogue Trader. The local GW was even selling stuff at one of their gigs (Grindcrusher tour, Manchester, 1989, yes I go back that far).
\m/ Here endeth today’s lesson from metal-in-the-olden-days. \m/
love it 😉
Jo Bench ,yum yum .
Bolt Thrower’s “Realm of Chaos” album is on iTunes and is pretty epic. Thought it was a little pricey at $9.99 (especially after over 20 years), but worth it. 🙂
I think I paid about £6.50 for it, which was the going rate in 1989
I never liked playing the games the majority favoured. When I started with miniatures it was Battlefleet Gothic because of greater tactical depth. GW first increased prices more and more without added value and then killed the game outright. I never 40k because I feel it’s too static and will go play Infinity now as it is faster paced and delivers a far better price/value ratio.
Just signed up for Backstage and enjoy it! 🙂
Same here =)
I have all the early bolt thrower stuff and love it all. The realms of chaos cds are a very good listen imo. They are extremely gw game oriented but i still enjoy the music even though i no longer enjoy any of the big gw games.
Good show, I think moving forward GW’s infrastructure costs will be what really hurts them. The stores add huge overheads, and with everything one man now, they don’t have any added value for customers, you cant play games at them, for people like me who get one day a week to go to shops during the day, a Tuesday, my local G is actually shut so I couldn’t shop there if I wanted to, and now the majority are away from the main footfall areas they don’t even have that ‘passing traffic’ appeal. I used to get the value as… Read more »
That kind of show was one of the reasons why I joined Backstage recently. Less forced and maybe therefore more balanced than what a ‘public’ discussion could achieve. So, thanks for that and in particular your discussion and analysis on developments at GW. It’s sad to see them go down that route, but actually not that surprising given their business decisions during (at least) the last decade or so. There’s always been doom and gloom about it, if never that serious and well-grounded than in these days. I also wouldn’t mind Killian to appear more often here on BoW. If… Read more »
Thanks for a great Sunday. 🙂 I think the lwck of profit for GW is down to GW having little goodwill within the gaming community and reducing numbers of players tbh. FLGS work hard to keep their customers entertained, so is very important to the community as it is normally set up by community members in the first place. Additionally, companies on Kickstarter are getting exclusive advertising where it matters and are able to create communities in a short amount of time, with little risk. They also have the appearance of a human face which people can relate to. Something… Read more »
I was in my only local game store this week buying some gw paint and the lady serving me mentioned how they are going to be discontinuing all the gw stuff.
Now they are not a full hobby store and sell more items like board games and puzzles but they are one of the only stores I know of in a 30km radius that sells gw items so if they don’t think it sells that’s worrying.
Certainly not on the same scale, but the vertical business model is exactly what Henry Ford did for his car company. He went so far as to own the rubber trees to make his tires, housing for his workers, etc. Not sure it is exactly relevant to GW or our hobby…but interesting none the less.
He went so far to own the runner trees and housing for his workers…
You should look into the history of Henry Ford’s little colonies in South America. It ended very badly. People died, mostly because Ford’s philosophy of production and living completely failed in the jungle (kind of like Lysenkoism in the Ukraine). They got out of the rubber business pretty quickly. That’s why Ford’s use Goodyear and Bridgestone now.