January 21, 2013 by warzan
Video Sponsors: Battle Foam – Mercs
Kicking off our coverage of Dark Angels Week Darrell and Andy join Warren in the new Beasts of War studio to have a chat about what they think of the new codex and some of the HQ Characters that can lead your forces to victory.
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Hey guys, the quality of the camera does not seem as good as it usually is. Was it particularly cold at Tabletop Nation?
Liked the episode so far. Could it be that GW are not implementing the power creep now? Credit where credit is due, as there is way to much faffing about in 40K, which is one of the reasons I no longer play tbh, but I do fully understand your concerns about making units fit the fluff. Perhaps this will encourage people to field armies that they like, rather than units they have to take to be competitive? For this to work, they will have to maintain this direction for a few more years. Lets just hope GW management can make… Read more »
Yes, Sammael needs to join a unit, however as he isn’t an Independent Character he can’t join a unit (the same as in the prior DA Codex).
It does list Independent character under special rules in the Army List section for Sammael. He has Hit and Run, Independent Character, Inner Circle, Scouts and Skilled Rider. It does just lists it as Character in the Fluff description section but I would go by the army list. I did not see anything about it in the FAQ.
Sorry it does have Independent Character in his special rules in the Fluff description also.
what the hell happened to 40k I left for two years now and iam not turning back.
iam playing mercs and x-wing.
While I see the argument for the TH/SS load-out, I would like to point out that Fleshbane on the Sword of Silence is always wounds on a 2+ NOT re-rolls to wound.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he’s worth it either & I’m fairly disappointed by the book (I had hoped for characters with some real vigour & wish some of the new Ravenwing toys were competitively priced (in terms of points), still just for the record.
Good video guys. I guess Warren’s complaint was that bland rules, even if they arent powerful, don’t really make people want to play. It does seem a lot of the time its difficult for writers to strive a good balance of interesting but overpowered vs. bland but fair.
Shame that Asmodai is a bit bland rules-wise, he has very cool background.
Correct, but I sense a fear to try and write interesting game rules.
Azrael’s helmet bearer used to be very important back in 2nd edition 40K. the Watcher in the Dark has the same rules as a Power Field Generator in the new codex. and needs to be placed within 3″ ir Azrael. I rememeber back in 2nd ed I had so much fun trying to fit as manay tac marines within 3″ of the Watcher in the Dark. Good times indeed.
There’s a lot of this video spent making schoolboy helmet gags.
Understand that this is not a complaint :o)
Good vid guys. Basically got to agree, our ‘Special’ characters arent all that special. They’re pretty disappointing if im being honest: average at best special weapons, no ew, not great special rules either
Belial and Sammael are the best two for me and like you say belial’s a bit overpriced
Come on Beasts of War guys, look up the rules. Belial has an iron halo, making a storm shield fairly useless. fleshbane means 2+ to wound, not matter what. oh, tough 6? 2+ to wound. Tough 8? 2+ to wound. I would say there is now no reason to take a TH/SS, as presicion shots on 5+ and 2+ to wound and a re-roll to him in melee against most things. This makes him great for hunting warlords when you add that he can drop a termie squad, 5 or 10 men, excatly where he wants them and everything is… Read more »
I think they edited it afterwards and it was displayed on the screen in writing mate. only watched it once but sure the errata was on there.
Yup errata came out after we started filming we went back and re recorded the main ones and annotated the others (which you should have seen on screen).
I think you guys are being blinded by the cheese found elsewhere. This codex is very balanced and I don’t see anything that strikes as overcosted (yes, even the fliers, the DA ones aren’t overcosted, its the other way around, Helldrakes, Galleries, et al. are way too good for their points).
i would say that the fliers are a bit over-priced, but not much else
Valkeries *
Stupid auto correct on my Nexus 7
A couple of points here:
You kinda have to take other codices into account when dissecting these, especially the popular ones (even more so marine based codices)
I personally don’t have a problem with balanced, so long as its interesting :o)
So a Codex that is balanced isn’t good because when compared by what the community considered by and large are OP Codexes / Strategies (GK, SW, Necron Flier Spam, etc.) it doesn’t hold up? That’s like saying a Knife isn’t a good weapon because it sucks in a gunfight. 😉
1) there is no such thing as balanced
2) I think fun and interesting need to come before balance
3) remember when you are quoting ‘the community’ at me that I am a part of that community too 😉
4) I’m not interested in cheese, I’m looking for cool gaming moments, epic weapons that are represented by +1WS are not exactly doing it for me at the moment 🙂
1. True enough but you can get pretty darn close and I think this Codex did. 2. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But it isn’t how everyone thinks. I am in the middle, I too like interesting rules but even if it is a cool rule, if it stinks or is overpowered, it won’t sit well with me. 3. As am I ;). BUT don’t tell me with a straight face that the majority doesn’t consider GK, SW, etc overpowered. My point was that if you are comparing stuff to things that many think aren’t… Read more »
1) Balance has to be considered across everything else better and more fun codices exist they know what works so no excuse really for dull 🙂
2) So are we to pretend GK etc doesnt exist when disecting these books?
3) simple is fine, I’ve no problem with simple, but no excuse for bland.
They went safe in this book because they don’t play test any more 😉
1. how many 40k games did I play as a ork player when 6th edition hit 3 and a half. 2. there is a definitive difference between being blinded by other more abused rule mis-haps than by being blind to the fact that this game is an over priced turd floating in the punch bowl known as war gaming. 3. how many other games did I play??? between malifaux and warmahordes it is way off the chart. therefore it is also noteworthy to mention, that this latest release is just more proof that 40k is on its way out and… Read more »
In closing I have been a BoW fan for a long time but I feel they are losing ground by not focusing on other more prolific games such as warmahordes, infinity, malifaux etc… heres a channel to show other people out here are filling that gap. Hopefully the guys here will focus more on others. You got the guys that can do it. Dont understand why they are not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x14zSvQCaTI
One of the things that has really annoyed me about this codex is not the stat lines but the discount bargain-bucket units. Taking one of the “vanilla” HQ’s in there of Librarian as an example what one of my regular opponents likes to throw out there is a Libby with Divination to essentially have twin-linked sniper rifles. This book makes a squad of 10 Scouts with that 55 points cheaper than it was before. There literally is no difference worth mentioning between the two but the new codex has the same units at less cost and 55 more in your… Read more »
Why is the unit cheaper than Vanilla?
– No Veteran Sgt by default
– Grim Resolve nerfing And They Shall Know No Fear
Please people, look at the big picture and read the whole rules.
It is cheaper than vanilla. Yes you have to pay for a Veteran Sgt but you get a Scout Sgt by default (which is exactly what the vanilla and other loyalists have) and they’re essentially unchanged (minus no combat tactics) but the libby is a major discount.
Please, look at the big picture and read the whole rules 😉
No. Vanilla Scouts are 15point cheaper. That’s pretty fair given they can use ATSKNF to its full effect and Chapter Tactics.
Librarian in Vanilla is a lvl 2 Psyker, a DA lvl 2 Psyker is the same 100 points (65 base plus upgrade). And he doesn’t have full ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics. So yeah, DA Librarians aren’t better.
I’m not sure where your getting your misinformation form but to be clear a vanilla Librarian is only Mastery Level 1. From the FAQ: Q: What Mastery Level is a Space Marine Librarian? A: Mastery Level 1. An Epistolary is Mastery Level 2. They both know two powers. To get a level 2 Vanilla Libby you’re spending 150 points, that’s 50% more than the DA one and it’s the DA’s scouts that are 15 points cheaper at 60 points for the squad rather than 75 on all the other loyalist SM forces and you’re point on ATSKNF is meaningless given… Read more »
“Please look at the big picture and read the rules” good advice i suggest you take it. The vanilla libby may start with 2 powers but he isn’t mastery level 2 so he can’t cast two powers a turn while the DA can.
I’m not saying one is defo better than the other but you can certainly make a case for it.
The big point Vanilla has over DA is the ability to fall back. That IS worth something. I missed the point on the Lvl thing, and I apologize that. Nevertheless, I don’t think Vanilla Librarians got the shaft. The Lvl 1 Vanilla vs Lvl 2 DA are somewhat even. Both get 2 powers, while DA gets a second Warp Charge, Vanilla gets the fall back advantage. But Lvl 2 vs Lvl two gives an edge to DA, because the ability to fall back shouldn’t be worth 50 points. Even so, that is just one IC (perhaps other IC have a… Read more »
The big point Vanilla has over DA is the ability to fall back. That IS worth something. I missed the point on the Lvl thing, and I apologize that. Nevertheless, I don’t think Vanilla Librarians got the shaft. The Lvl 1 Vanilla vs Lvl 2 DA are somewhat even. Both get 2 powers, while DA gets a second Warp Charge, Vanilla gets the fall back advantage. But Lvl 2 vs Lvl two gives an edge to DA, because the ability to fall back shouldn’t be worth 50 points. Even so, that is just one IC (perhaps other IC have a… Read more »
Well, to go back when I used the term “vanilla” it wasn’t Vanilla Marines i.e. Codex Space Marines, which I admit is perhaps a little confusing, I meant as in your plain in-every-codex type units. Blood Angels Librarians, for example, can’t fall back either but are 100 points. When we’re getting into rules live that we’re talking individual codex flavour. The reason I picked that particular example is that it’s popular combo with my opponents at it’s just got 55 points cheaper with real detriment and those points can make a big difference. The point is that the core of… Read more »
Nice video I rather enjoy the silliness, more than the rules these days to be honest.
GW have become too predictable , the problem with this codex , aside from needing an faq within a week, is that its just so formulaic.named captain, named librarian, named chaplain , 1 character unlocks one new boxset as troops , one character unlocks the other new boxset as troops.
Sadly, to me, in one of the richest settings in sci fi literature, they really seem to have run out of ideas.
The FAQ didn’t really address any issues. It was just typos basically.
That “FAQ” was done before release when you consider that the digital codex had those typos prepatched before release.
That is a disgrace.
I don’t believe that this book was ever meant for tournaments. I think it is clear having read the book that it was meant for new players who have bought the starter set and are now wanting to go and further their collection. I don’t think it was a book for hardcore DA players at all, just a book to represent the new starter army; a fun, easy to paint, and relatively easy army to play which I find sad tbh
I don’t believe GW makes any of their codexes for tournaments. In the BRB they are always talking about forming a narrative in your battles. They have a chapter on running a campaign but nothing on Tournaments.
So much negativity in these posts! I personally am a fanboy from 2nd ed (never touched 3rd and 5th codex), and I love how they retained the fluff of the Dark Angels. Apart from Beast of War, most other podcasts agreed that this is a very well made high (not top nor OP) codex. Isn’t that what most gamers should hope for? We all complained on OP codex like Grey Knights in 5th. so shouldn’t we give more credit to balanced codex? Every new codex will have its new niche. it will feel overpowered to some (yarr’s oaks) or underpowered… Read more »
I don’t believe this is a high quality product at all, but I’ll get into that through the week.
Again, my number one hope for any codex (or army book or game) is flavour in the rules, to me it’s a bit pointless having epic descriptions of lore and weapons etc if no effort what so ever is expended on replicating it in the game.
But we’ll see as the week continues 🙂
I think the codex could be fun to play and collect as it has alot of options for different armys and styles of play. You have Dwing, Rwing, Greenwing and any combo of those. While I agree some of it is dry IMO thats how the Dark Angels are in the fluff. They are a bunch of solemn monks who don’t care about recognition or making friends. In fact they just want to be left alone to fight the emperors enemys and hunt the Fallen. I thinks thats the reason them and the Space Wolves don’t get along, they are… Read more »
Dry Chapter shouldn’t = Dry Gameplay 🙂
Some things are dry but there are dry things in most of the codexes. It has some fun things to, The banner that makes all bolters within 6″ salvo 2/4 for instance or that one off strike the DW Knights can make when they really need to bash someone. I prefer rules fitting the fluff over making up fluff to fit some crazy rule.
IMO there is some fun to be had with this Codex. It may not fit everyones style of play but thats why there are other forces.
Good vid, keep the helmet and blessings gags coming.
Minor points – as someone said above, camera angles and visual quality was a bit hmmmn, but more importantly to me, the sound level is too low. I’ve got volume settings at max (am on headphones) and am struggling to hear.
Found yet a third ‘master volume’ in the bowels of my PC…… ignore above comment
and……. duh!
no no the sound levels are too low I agree
Well i am not surprised the bow guys are disliking this codex as it is clearly not a powergamer codex. All the things they mention as better or more “interesting” than the DA stuff are from the OP codex era, an era that is over. Problem is that GW are too slow to release codexes and dont amend points via faqs on the older codexes. If they did grey knight terminators, space wolves, necron flyers would rise in points. Yes the DA feels abit bland in places, and there are filler units. But thank god it is not a wars… Read more »
I am going to give my thoughts on Belial and the others characters. First off, I am going to agree that Asmodai sucks he is 30pts more than a normal Interrogator-Chaplain with a Chapter Relic that is not even worth 10pts Hell take a normal Interrogator-Chaplain with a Mace of Redemption (page 67) for a total of 10pts more than Asmodai and you get a better character. My deference of Belial is based off comparing him to a generic Company Master with Terminator Armour. He only costs 30pts more than generic master, for that you get: -A fleshbane, Master-crafted weapon,… Read more »
the chaos codex was just a bit meh… so far dark angels seems to be continuing that trend
Some great points here 🙂 Agreed – think this only appears bland because nothing is so overpowered it looks like an auto-include… particularly when it comes to characters – if one of them was amazingly awesome, why would you bother taking any of the others?… if they’re all amazingly awesome then surely that just becomes the new bland? Also, perhaps a lot of this has to do with the lack of major surprises in the codex? But then, that’s probably a bit hard for the DA who are essentially a regular marine chapter that happens to have funky 1st and… Read more »
the great sounding weapons all seemed abit crappy tbh or was that just me>?
Myself, and everyone I know in my Dark Angels community are very pissed off about this video. Yes, your entitled to your openions, but when your going to dis our army and say it sucks while explaining what our army does, at least get the rules right. I & meny others have officially removed you from our favorites list and will no longer be comming to your site-
lol your crazy
being in the same community as @castillo1313 I was slightly miffed but not to the degree as he indicates, and frankly then I was awesome again because I remembered I had a new codex to try stuff with…. True story.
I really like the idea of watchers in the dark and annoys me when you laugh from it for a 5 minutes. I bet that Darell and the gang would like to see buckets of dice, every-time you use bolter.
I came back to WH40k after long break and feel like there is no better time to be DA.
Guys I don’t want over powered Books and characters. All I want to see is a balance with the current books.
@darrell totally agree. when I win a game I like to think it was down to me not my army.