GW Sues Chapterhouse SHOCK!
December 29, 2010 by beerogre
Well... maybe not so much of a shock...
If you've been watching the antics of Games Workshopfor any length of time, you'll know that they are renowned for being ninjas with their Cease & Desist orders, but this time they've followed through and initiated legal action!
However, you may not be so aware of the work of Chapterhouse Studios. Chapterhouse are the purveyors of "after sales parts" for some of the mainstays of the Games Workshop 40K line... you know... heads, shoulder armour, tentacle things, weapons... and lots more.
These parts are cast in resin and can be super-glued to your existing 40K models to personalise them a bit and save you having to break out the modelling putty yourself.
But what do you think?
Do you have any experience with Chapterhouse products... or do you prefer to do your own conversion work to your miniatures?
Do you use the parts from any other manufacturers and what do you think this means for those smaller producers who might have products that can be used with other miniatures lines?
Why not drop a comment below... but please keep things PG... we know how these subjects tend to polarise the community pretty quickly!
BoW Andy
Well Tyranids for an example can’t really be described as being completely Games workshop’s idea (I’m talking about Aliens here by the way lol) so I don’t think Games Workshop should be able to attack other people for stealing ideas when they do just the same.
lame. CH had some cool extra armor kits for space marine tanks. It is kind of funny how GW is being so touchy with copyright stuff, i mean ever seen the movie aliens or read the Dune series? but whatever they have the Lawyers and they need to protect their empire especially here in the states where the economy is crap and sales are probably down. at least FW is slowly putting out kits similar to the ones on the market from indy suppliers. I just hope GW is’nt TOO brutal to the guys at chapterhouse they seem like nice… Read more »
No big surprise really! GW is a company and wants/needs profit; without profit there would be no Warhammer! So from that perspective I can understand GW:s actions. But on the other hand; miniature wargaming is a business that is also a hobby and as such needs a strong support among it´s customers/followers. A gaming company can´t make money in the same way as Volkswagen, Unilever and IKEA. You need dedicated customer´s who are willing to spend money on a regular basis and who want to develop their creativity using your products. And here it starts to get interesting because it… Read more »
Completely agree with you!!
In last 5 years there´s kind of a feeling among all Warhammer fans along the World, either on Fantasy Battles or in 40K, and it´s that Games Workshop is day by day less hobby and more businness, and that´s not bad at all but seems they´re forgetting that even is businness you need to have happy customers or they will look for similar choices…
couldn’t have put it better my self! I actually had a pretty lengthy conversation about these kinds of kits not from this particular supplier but basically the same and we were saying the only sensible thing for GW to do (because after all they are a business and there is at the top a very greedy rich person how wants all the money in the world from the profits of his company just like any other business) is to a 1 stop releasing codex entry’s with out models or 2 release the models them selves take tyranids for example almost… Read more »
Just had a quick look at the chapterhouse website to refresh my memory. Frankly its a miracle that GW legal didn’t beat them upside the head sooner. The website clearly aims to make a profit from someone else’s IP without permission, and they have made no attempt to hide it (A “K” instead of a “C” in the word Chaos/Khaos for example….). If GW knows about someone breaching their IP, if they want to keep their IP status they have to do something about it or risk losing control. I don’t agree with everything GW does and over the last… Read more »
@longfang “chapter house have chosen to pee into the wind and are now complaining that they got a face full” LOL
I would say there’s points to both sides but I would say your right about the naming 🙂 there’s no beating around the bush on their site 🙂
Exactly. There are plenty of other companies selling “hammers for sci-fi marines”… Starting a company and selling “thunder hammers for salamander terminators” is a bit stupid and just asking for GW to stand up and notice.
Yeah I agree with lloyd. They have to protect their unique products but also they need to encourage the community. Having said that longfang is definitely right about peeing in the wind lol!
It’s a thorny issue… with my limited knowledge of the law… I would assume the problem here would be “piggy-backing” sales by using GW names and diluting the GW brand by associating their own products, rather than simply making compatable products. For example: I have in front of me right now, a box of the new plastic British Infantry from Warlord Games (which are fantastic BTW 😀 ). There are many parts in the box that could be used to augment some Imperial Guard models… heads… weapons… backpacks… ammo belts… etc. However, I have no doubt that GW would have… Read more »
There’s a huge difference between what Micro Art studios are doing in producing non-specific robed legs that just so happen to fit snugly into the underside of Space Marines and Chapterhouse are doing. Chapterhouse’s stuff flaunts the trademarked intellectual property all over its stuff, I think GW has right to whine about the use of the use of chapter icons as much as Nike has to whine about cheap trainer manufacturers stamping the tick all over their products. It’s not about Chaperhouse infringing on their ip by marketing their products at 40k conversions, they’re straight up stealing GW’s ip. GW… Read more »
On the one hand I completely understand GW’s desire to protect their IP, after all if they don’t take a stand soon people will start manufacturing wholesale marine models etc which will undoubtedly hurt GW. However the thing about Chapterhouse and other companies is they don’t do whole models, for the most part they do bitz for conversions, or the models people are making are things GW haven’t and don’t seem to want to do(Thunderwolves anybody?) Far from costing GW anything these things should encourage sales as people who have wanted to build certain styled armies and haven’t had the… Read more »
I would say that’s right @bigbri I have chatted to some the design guys over in GW HQ and they didn’t mind people creating accessors for their models (that’s not GW official view, just of the record). It’s when companies produce a full miniature that’s very similar in design and advertise it using actual GW brand names (or GW imagery) that rubs them up the wrong way and that’s I can understand. If you make accessories that work with GW products but don’t blatantly ride on their product promotion then I think it’s ok. So I cant see anything wrong… Read more »
This to me is the most reasonable take.
As I understand it it is the Heavy Assault Walker that is being taken to task as it is very much Tau in design.
TBH I don’t see any fundamental diference in being up front that shoulder pads are intended for a given SM chapter or by inference, eg Scribor’s very nice Angels Shoulder Pads. Let’s face it we KNOW what they are intended for lol
This company failed in the part that they were using registered GW names on all their products and that was just asking for trouble. If you’re going to build up a company selling after market bits call your products by a different name. I scratch built a Mycetic Spore and sell them in the local area but I market them as an Alien Transport Pod. Everyone knows what they are and what game system they can be used for but I wont be backing myself into a hole calling them by a GW name. Props to them for making the… Read more »
I understand GW wanting to lay the hammer down, they didn’t register the GW brand name of the items that was clearly from GW’s games.
I mean some of their products are nice yes but not registering is a pretty dim witted move on Chapterhouse’s part.
Personally I’ve never used them, not sure if I would use a studio like that I prefer to convert my own stuff or get some Forgeworld stuff, mainly because they are GW registered.
So far, everyone here has a good point and a decent argument on whether or not Chapterhouse screwed up. The problem, when making a product in a hobby where someone else pretty much cornered it, is that you have to be careful in what it looks like and how it’s named. Otherwise, you can get hit with copyright infringement or IP theft. There are many models out there and most of them can inter-cross with each other. The gray area, is whether or not “you”, the company, made it first. If not, then you have to be careful. The problem,… Read more »
And to think they recently displayed a converted model with a chapterhouse shoulder pad on it… see the latest blog entry showcasing Dark Angles. You can see one of the figures in the gallery section of Chapterhouse’s website.
Someone correct me if Im wrong but I read that part of the problem with UK copyright law is that if you dont defend your IP then you lose it.
I personally think GW must realise the bad feeling this causes amongst the community (they probably do read about themselves quite a bit!) but legally they have no choice.
Its either defend your IP at every step of the way, or lose it completely so everyone starts knocking out cheap rip offs of your games (though “cheap might” be nice 🙂 ).
I don’t think they lose it, it just loses all credibilty if it is not defended
Yeah, cheaper minis would definitely be cool… Also, conversion parts are a necessity if you want a great looking army that will stand out : the GW troops are all the same, alas, since it’s cheaper to make… A tank is a tank is a tank, a 40k building is a 40k building is a 40k building, you get sets of completely identical sprues for every batallion and some vague ornaments to differentiate them, all made in plastic that’s often masking crucial details… Even though it’s better compared to what they did years ago, thanks to the progress in plastics… Read more »
In my area the GW staff have no problems with me using add-ons from other companies (provided that they are attached to something I bought from GW) and I can only assume that most people within the company feel that way. The problem is that if GW gives an inch, people will take a mile. I’m sure many people who work at GW do not want GW to sue Chapter House but quite frankly I don’t think the company has a choice, if they let Chapter House slide then other people will really start to screw them over. Just my… Read more »
Its like in the supermarkets, you see Tesco brand “Cheese slices”, what you dont see is “Dairy Lea replacement cheese slices”
I see this as being no different to the companies that produce aftermarket turner parts for cars. Someone like Air Power Systems in Australia makes a range of upgrades for the Nissan 350Z, they make no bones about the fact these parts are specifically for that car, clearly using both brand and product name and imagery to clearly indicate just what these parts are for. Doubly to that, some of these parts actually required research to be done on the factory standard equipment. Nissan in this case could pursue the matter in a similar fashion. Aftermarket turners infringe on a… Read more »
if it’s true that GW, at heart, doesn’t want to sue Chapterhouse but has to. Surely there’s a way to both increase the spread of the hobby without infringing on the little companies like Chapterhouse. Why not look into how much business CH is doing, if the demand is high enough, offer to buy them out. I had a quick look through their site, it’s not bad. I suppose it would be rewarding them too much, but if you bought them out and added them to an “extra bits” studio within GW then the hobby continues to grow and the… Read more »
Not that my knowledge of business is perfect but Chapter House is a LLC business, this means that it cannot be bought on the stock market. They must be sold directly from one stockholder to another (I’m about 90% sure thats right) and I don’t think Chapter House likes GW very much so I don’t really think that would happen.
Anyone else seen the ‘Defence Fund’ that Chapter House has started? Now that I find pathetic.
No surprise that GW went for them
Id rather see GW do a deal with them rather than (most likely) shut them down…but who knows whats gone on behind closed doors
GW needs to protect their brand. Some companies pay a licensing fee that allows them to manufacturer and promote their products so everyone gets a piece of the pie.
Regardless if you like Chapterhouse or not, they legaly have no legs to stand on. I’ve looked at GW site in regards of the legal stuff and what they have copyrighted: TRADEMARK INFORMATION Adeptus Astartes, Battlefleet Gothic, Black Flame, Black Library, the Black Library logo, BL Publishing, Blood Angels, Bloodquest, Blood Bowl, the Blood Bowl logo, The Blood Bowl Spike Device, Cadian, Catachan, the Chaos device, Cityfight, the Chaos logo, Citadel, Citadel Device, City of the Damned, Codex, Daemonhunters, Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Dark Future, the Double-Headed/Imperial Eagle device, ‘Eavy Metal, Eldar, Eldar symbol devices, Epic, Eye of Terror, Fanatic,… Read more »
That is indeed a big list. However, I’m not a lawyer, and I assume you’re not either, so people should not confuse “Legal Policy” with the law. There are a number of items on that list that are a bit generic, for example — Fanatic — The word and the idea have been around a lot longer than games that include the idea. Inquisitor — I’m pretty sure that GW did not invent inquisitions or those who carry them out. Warhammer — Again the weapon has been around a lot longer than the game. “and all associated (…) names, races… Read more »
Its ridiculous theyre getting sued, cuz theyre making things that GW dont.
Another main poin tho; I just checked them out there and I think theyre resin moulds are terrible.
I wouldnt ruin my GW (plastic) models with these! They might look in place with some of the GW metal models that arrive twisted and battered and inaccurately molded, but nice ideas anyway. Definately shouldnt have been sued.
Oh yes, I agree… Chapterhouse shouldn’t have been sued, but their stuff is still crap. i wouldn’t put it on my table.
Maybe that’s why GW sues them… Perhaps if they did quality stuff, they’d offer a deal. Who knows ?
But a lot of their stuff is exactly what GW make. Most of the Marine shoulder pads are direct copies of GW stuff.
Sometimes the big guy is beating up the little guy. But sometimes the little guy is at it then pleads “look at the big man beating me up”
Oh, Sorry, I hadn’t seen the plain shoulder pads on the CH website. I spoke hastily : They are doing crap, they do copy GW stuff, and they don’t even change the names. They should definitely be sued… Even though they have some orginal products as well. The marketplace will only be better without their company…
However, I hope GW doesn’t resort to sueing companies that actually do great, well modeled products.
what is GW actually sueing for though vialation of IP ?
GW has the legal right to defend their IP. While I feel they can be heavy handed at times, they still are well within their right to push a suit. That being said, if CH would just have taken some simple precautions, this would have never happened.
I agree.
As told before, Scibor and Dark Yakuza also do the same as Chapter House, and also here in Spain we have Game Zone or Avatars of War… But they solve the IP conflict by changing the names!!!
If they do a Marneus Calgar, they only name him: Space General…
While some of their stuff isn’t great the Chapterhouse “pre-heresy jump packs” are very nice. I would have thought a bit of a rewrite of the website would have been all that was required, I wonder if there where any cease and desists that were ignored?
Unfortunately the biggest surprise is that it has taken GW so long to take action. Hopefully an amicable arrangement is still possible as fewer choices are to the detriment of all gamers.
Wait… If you mask your obvious IP brake you are doing better than not masking it? Beside that, IP is IP and you could not blame GW for defending their one… But, you can blame then for being so dumb when doing it. Processing those guys is just dumb… Do GW sells a official model for Nids Spore? Do they sell Iconographic shoulder pads for each chapter? We know that they dont… Anyone who buy a Nids Spore is planning to at least buy a Carnifex. And a guy who buy acessorys for Salamander will buy lots of Marines to… Read more »
This just shows that GW is working as a bully in the world of wargaming. They are a large company and they need to see that this company is selling things that aren’t available from GW, and adding to the GW line, seeing some of their lines makes me want to collect a different army just for the 1 or 2 models they create for it. From my understanding from a legal stand point GW is in the “right” as they aren’t open licence, but all this will do is stop innovation for great models to add to the table… Read more »