Recently we reviewed Those Dark Places, an Industrial Sci-Fi roleplaying game by Jonathan Hicks and published by Osprey Games. Being enamoured by it; we reached out to Hicks to have a chat about designing the game!

Read Our Those Dark Places Review 

Make sure to dive in with us and have a read of Hicks' thoughts on crafting the mechanics and what movies and more influenced the design of the game and its tone.

Ben: First off, could you introduce yourself and tell us a little about what you do and how you got started in the industry?

Jonathan Hicks: Hi there - I'm Jonathan Hicks and I've been a tabletop gamer since 1983. I've been writing about gaming since 1997 as well as doing reviews and interviews and I seriously got into game design in about 2014. I got started because I wasn't gaming as much as I used to and I needed an outlet for all the ideas I was having and that turned into designing.

B: Those Dark Places has recently been released. For those who aren't familiar with it, could you give us a brief overview of what it's all about?

JH: It's an industrial science-fiction game, inspired by the dark science fiction aesthetic of the 1970s and 1980s such as Outland and Alien. Please excuse me for using the book blurb as an answer!

"Those Dark Places is a rules-light, story-focused roleplaying game about the darker side of space exploration and the people who travel the stars in claustrophobic, dangerous conditions. Starships, stations, and outposts aren’t havens of safety with clean, brightly lit corridors – they’re potential deathtraps, funded by budget-conscious corporate interests and running on stale, recycled air and water. The stars may be the future of humanity, but they are also home to horrors and terror the human mind cannot comprehend."

I started designing it back in 2010 with a very definite focus on horror and weird monsters, but as I tinkered with it I decided to make it more about the debilitating nature of space travel rather than the horror itself, and I trimmed down the rules to make it more story orientated. It's not just about monsters and horrors in the dark although you can use that if you want to throw a curveball at your players. It's about facing the unknown and the unexpected, alone and far from help. It's why I left a definitive threat out of it; the players will never know what to expect and that ups the tension, I feel.

It's perfectly suited to one-shots or a string of several adventures but it can be used for an ongoing campaign, especially if the players are looking to finish their 25-year contract and reach retirement!

B: Those Dark Places draws on a lot of inspiration from Sci-Fi Horror, especially the likes of Alien and Dead Space as mentioned in the book - what is it about this setting that appeals so much to you?

JH: The design of the worlds are stark and quite shocking, far removed from the bright corridors and the cute bleeping robots I was used to before I saw Alien for the first time. There was something alluring about the darkness and the unpredictability of it all and it was also something I could relate to, in a strange way. Seeing these blue-collar workers doing their best to get through a situation they could barely comprehend or imagine put me there with them, and I could feel the weight of the situations they were in. I found that incredibly attractive thematically and it was something I could get my teeth into creatively, and I explored it for years.

B: Sticking with the theme of horror, how would you work to try and get that specific "feel" around the tabletop? Horror is notoriously hard to do, especially with people sitting around a table on their phones for example!

JH: It's very hard and prone to backfiring as it depends on how invested your gaming group is - just one flippant comment or off-note joke can really change the mood. The reason I wrote Those Dark Places the way I did was to inject atmosphere; I felt that if I could put the players and the GM into the book's narrative then that would translate to the tabletop experience.

Most horrors in other mediums rely on 'jumpscares' to make their point but these are fleeting and don't always work, so building atmosphere is the primary goal, I feel. If you can get the players invested in the situation then they respond emotionally to situations and themes, and if you can make them uncomfortable as well as make them concerned about their character's safety (and sanity) then that's half the battle. The buildup is the key, you only have to watch Alien to see how that works.

There's not a lot you can do about mobile phones and other distractions as that's just the way things are, sadly, but I think eyes wander to small screens if the player is sat waiting for a turn or to give input into the game. It's one of the reasons why I think the rules system for the game works so well, they're fast, intuitive and don't leave anyone waiting, bored and restless. After watching Those Dark Places played on stream I think the simplicity of the rules suits online gaming to a tee as it's quick and easy and nobody is left hanging. It's also a single D6 and that suits any and all dice rollers and RPG portals, so there's no time to get distracted!

B: The system behind Those Dark Places is very quick to understand and easy to get into. What was the thinking behind going for this?

JH: I didn't want the game system to intrude on the atmosphere; in my experience, some games build to a dramatic crescendo and then suddenly you're into the mechanics and if it's a crunchy system then the tension is lost as the game's focus shifts from story to rules. That can pull you right out of the emotion of the moment and after spending a long time building that it's difficult to get back into the vibe. I designed Those Dark Places to be easy to learn, teach and play, and to be easy to run for both GM and player.

B: I particularly liked the way that Those Dark Places was actually written; building on the narrative focus of the game. Was it hard to try and get the "rules" in there alongside this style of writing?

JH: I like to think that the rules tell a story as well as create the theme and the atmosphere of the game. You're learning your role as a player and a General Monitor and it's all being explained in a relaxed conversational attitude by an interviewer trying to figure out if you're suitable for the job.

It was hard - at first, I wanted the whole thing to be written that way but first drafts didn't feel right at all, and it felt there was a lot of missing information or rules clarifications that got lost in the text. It was Osprey Games who suggested the 'boxouts' to explain specifics and options and I feel that worked out much better.

B: The artwork from Nathan Anderson is particularly stunning in the book. Did you have much input on this side of things and help with this process?

JH: I had virtually no input at all; I never felt I needed to. I was really impressed with his work and the starkness of it and pretty much as soon as I saw his portfolio I knew he was what I was looking for - one of his 'Alien' pieces on his website was a deciding factor, too!

I really love the fact that he captured the aesthetic of the game, with clunky old-school computers and classic spacesuits. I especially loved the cat on the helmet! Nathan's work is fantastic and I couldn't have asked for better. I'm really happy with the way it turned out.

B: What are some of the fun moments you've had when playtesting Those Dark Places and running/being a part of games?

JH: My two favourite moments were from a very early playtest and from a recent session I ran for Garblag Games on their channel. The playtest situation resulted in one fully functional player character trying to drag a half-dazed player character from an unconscious player character as a space station collapsed around them. The rolls just did not go their way and the panic was palpable as the D6 just kept on bringing up 1s and 2s.

The pressure had already got to two of them and the third player was hauling them out, and as they were about to make it the alert player character had to make a Pressure roll, they failed, and because they'd managed to roll high for all their other rolls they blew big and passed out from the stress, almost dooming them all to a fiery destruction. It was then I realised I had to tone down the Pressure rules slightly otherwise every other session would result in characters who couldn't do anything at all!

The Garblag Games moment was the end of the adventure I ran for them on their channel; the players had been through hell exploring a damaged starship whose leaking engines caused horrific hallucinations, and throughout it had been them reacting to what they thought was real, trying to ignore voices and horrible images and basically trying to stay cool even though they knew that the leaking engines were responsible. The last scene involved them receiving a transmission that kind of indicated not all had ended well and that just maybe their safety was a fabrication of the mind. It was a satisfying ending to a fun adventure.

B: What's next for Those Dark Places? Do you see additional adventure books on the way? If not, do you have your sights set on something else?

JH: I want to write a series of short adventures, or 'reports' as I call them in the game, with the intention of creating a longer campaign for players wanting to take the risk at investing their time in a long story arc.

I also want to write more about Earth and detail the cities and governments so that gaming groups have more options and places to play, as well as expand on the companies and their machinations, their work practices and their relationships with each other; I'll be loosely basing it on the work practices of huge businesses in the early 1980s, and just giving them starships to play with.

Rules-wise I may look at creating material for starships, although I don't really want to expand or add to the existing ruleset as I don't want to lose sight of the simplicity of the mechanics. I'm happy for gaming groups to share their ideas and house rules to see what fits best; Those Dark Places was designed to be tinkered with. I guess we'll see what the future holds!

B: Thanks for chatting with us Johnathan! 

If this interview had you wondering about giving the game a go yourself, it is currently available from Osprey Games in both electronic and physical form.

Read Our Those Dark Places Review 

Make sure to let us know if you dive in and give Those Dark Places a go. We reckon it should be a fun vehicle to drive a fascinating roleplaying game at the tabletop full of tense moments!

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