New Blood.

I really like dungeon saga. I have had some great fun with that game and introduced a couple dozen people (including kids) to gaming through it.

It has had some issues with the adventurers companion for sure. Didn’t work very well when it came to campaign mode, co-op mode or any kind of automated overlord. With a bit of kicking and bashing however, it was perfectly adequate to the task of deeper games. Shame there was no search function built in but again that is easily solved with a bit of overlord ingenuity and a deck of cards that had been adjusted for such a purpose.

You could also go head to head with extra overlord decks and both sides have minions to use! Brilliant fun.

The main problems for me was length of set up time once doors are opened. While the tiles have almost endless variation to play games on the one hand, they can be tedious to construct on the fly. A bit of pre game organisation helps, having the entire mission set up but unpopulated helps more. You are getting closer to losing that mystery element however. But it never seemed a problem as long as the adventurers did not know where they had to go and what was populating the map that had been created. So a pre set up dungeon didn’t seem to detract anything.

Another factor was the tiles would shift around, a lot. Well a black non slip mat solved that instantly. Even added to the experience as the black background made the map really show up!

The tiles were improved by buying several sets second hand of the return of valandor and abyss expansions. This created a uniform tile pattern that did not distract from the miniatures and 3D terrain. it was visually simpler and aided gameplay as players stopped asking ‘where is what here Jason?’ The varied visual elements distracted and boggled some new players eye. The uniform valandor/abyss tiles did not. You have to be able to see your playing pieces after all!

The rules were excellent but newbies still found it slightly boggling so a paring back was still necessary. Easily accommodated but not so for the wizard who was perplexing for all my new players.

Finally many people introduced to the game have been woman and wanted a female version of x y or z core character. Some chaps wanted a male version of madriga, this is all so they could take ownership of their character and play them as if they were the character! I made up some character cards that had the names blanked out and been laminated so dry wipe pens can be used to name them and keep track of certain heroic deeds! I also made some alternate miniatures from other companies that were put onto dungeon saga bases to act as proxy for the core male characters.

Now I should state here that I am very aware that the expansions have plenty of female characters. My players (almost to a person!) did not want to abandon the first characters they used. They wanted the barbarian again in the green menace expansion and in the abyssal expansion etc! So a female Orlaf has been used throughout allll the missions because that player has ownership of that character they created and doesn’t want to start again. A lot of dungeon mastering was needed to adjust for this and not always successfully!

So you can see what I want from a new version of DS. In comes Origins campaign!

So what is it claiming to have addressed?

The signs so far are positive for me! Individual trays containing all components for the mission. Quick setup with larger clearer tiles.

Pared back rules, but proof will be in playing for me. I can’t visualise exactly how my players will respond so I need to test it out. Point is that Mantic are addressing it directly and that is encouraging.

A claim for a slick automated overlord and co-op mode, again is a good claim and I hope it bears fruit, in game.

A search function with wandering monsters! Yes yes yes!

Keeping a narrower focus on providing only the base game. I’m divided here, I want the improved adventurers companion. That’s what we reallly want, with female versions of the base generic characters. This is spoken of in humming and aaaahhing tones for a future release. Renton has given his reasons and they seem very reasonable from a company point of view. I do not know much of company pressures however and will just take his word on it. Other companies seem to be able to add an expansion covering this stuff quite readily so a small doubt is in my mind and I fear Mantic will never do it.

The origin miniatures are larger, annoying but not insurmountable as they are the same scale as the eye of the abyss expansion which are just fine. As I say, annoying, but not insurmountable or truly bothersome. The new poses are looking a little expansive now, getting the modern problem at wanting an individual action pose for everything and creating visual chaos in the whole. I like simple miniatures, they are playing pieces after all, and I need to recognise them at a glance. Original DS had it nailed. This one will have to be seen in action to convince me.

Now the round bases will be cut off in the immediate, devilish bastard things. But I understand why they’ve done it as it creates more options for their sculpting, even if I don’t think it needs it, as the simpler minis are superb for the task. As an aside I really don’t understand the modern desire for every miniature to be in a state of mid action manga pose of its own!? It really creates problems during gameplay with fitting pieces together on the board and if you have to rank things? Well! Just put them in the bin before you burn them through frustration. I just don’t like the visual chaos that ensues from the many many poses all together and disjointed from other playing pieces. Add overcomplicated dungeon tiles to the mix and you can get a mild migraine from the strain. A little hyperbolic perhaps but not very much so.

They claim the rounds don’t create a problem with facings but I see a lot of the new miniatures are embigulated and overhanging the base! What will happen in combat with multiple opponents? Someone is going to have to juggle the pieces to fit. ‘Who was facing where? Oh I don’t remember.’ I hope I’m wrong in this concern.

So I’m backing the project in the hopes that there will be enough content in it that I can import to my older system, like the room tiles, the search function, new enemies and rapid intro play. I like the neoprene extras and screen. And the miniatures look like they will appeal to the modern kids aesthetic so plenty for the mites to paint up. I will be putting them on squares, I will be discarding those that do not fit the base. None of which is truly a complaint as the thing is cheap enough that I can afford to this.

I cannot shake off the feeling that what I really wanted was a reworked adventurers companion that had new missions, new dungeon tiles and a search deck. Could Chuck in some alt female/male characters for Rordin/Orlaf/Danor/Madriga and Mortibris. Perhaps some new dungeon features like an entry/exit spiral stairway. And a blank mission creater pad.

Could have thrown in a small beginners pamphlet for a pared back intro version. All my old stuff would then be relevant. All the new stuff would genuinely add to my collection. Mantic would have been able to put out its new red intro box for shops and newbies. Grognards like me would have our deeper adventurers companion. All for what seems less effort than what they’ve currently done.

I can only assume I don’t understand something fundamental to the current marketplace and the needs of Mantic as a company. I’m getting some of what I want and for a very small price, I’ll take it and shoehorn it in as best I can to my current sets.

Love to know others opinions on this though, please let me know. Have I missed anything out here? I love Mantic as a company and look forward to this Kickstarter. How can we returning players make the new offering work best for us?

All thoughts wanted!

As another extra aside, the old heroquest board works brilliantly for dungeon saga extras and a quick setup.

The new hasbro heroquest got one thing and one thing alone right. Female alternatives to core characters. Otherwise hasbro can shove it.