Ops Center Episode 12: Vietnam Big Picture & Lessons Learned
September 21, 2019 by stvitusdancern
It's time for one last tour "in country" as Jim wraps up his Ops Center: Vietnam series. This time we're looking at the how Vietnam affected other Cold War conflicts around the world, how it changed the face of warfare, and what lessons the Americans learned from this long and gruelling conflict.
How we look at the very idea of war, and wargaming, changed forever, and not just in the historical genre.
How do you think the Vietnam experience continues to affect modern wargaming, to this day? What Vietnam elements do you see in other wargaming genres?
Growing up during the Vietnam war I got increasingly sickened with it, so much so as I stopped watching the news on TV.
Having visited the country 10 years ago a milder and nicer people you could not find. America should stay out of these countries but support them with dialogue, training, and trade. Continue trading with Vietnam and they will become allies. Allow countries to develop their own government systems. I have never found a true communist in Vietnam unlike the people of Cuba.
Agree 100%. The fact that the Vietnam found itself in nearly immediate wars with the Khmer Rouge and Red China I feel show that there are “different brands” of Communism that don’t always get along, and we should be careful of painting all “communist” countries with the same broad red brush. Furthermore, as relations with China continue to escalate especially in the South China Sea (Spratly Islands, etc.) I’m hoping things our relations with Vietnam continue to improve in the years to come.
Thanks for kicking off the comment thread!
Another great offering! I think these are complete enough to be required watching in classrooms.
Any ideas on what will next strike your fancy and make you willing to devote 50 hours to each episode to talk about it?
I second your statement @gladesrunner “required watching in classrooms”. I know I will be requiring these episodes to be watched by anyone wanting to play in the campaign I’m planning for Flames of War: Vietnam. There’s a gamer weekend, (it runs for three days), coming up in a couple of months not too far from my home town that I may run part of that campaign in and I’m thinking of taking a 32″ tv along to set up in the background. It would be running these episodes to educate any players that want to give it a try. So… Read more »
Thanks very much @gladesrunner and @templar007 !
Very interested to see updates on your Vietnam Flames of War campaign. If there’s anything I can do to help, historical outlines, just some sketchwork for basics (I wouldn’t want to limit anyone’s armies or lists), just let me know.
Oriskany the Dan Carlin of Succinct Macro Overview. Very good series enjoyed it alot!
Interesting I had heard of the Khmer Rouge but not in any great detail and how that and china’s backing plays into politics in the region now
@skiptotheend – The movie “The Killing Fields” takes a very good, if horrific, look at the Khmer Rogue. It ends roughly with Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia in 1978/79. It’so dd to see a Communist army sweep in at the end like the heroes to put an end to the madness. Then again, the Soviets more or less did this in Belarus, Ukraine, Poland, etc in 1944 … But Communist countries did fight each other. They had differences between each other same as everyone else.
That was a great wrap up to an excellent series!
I appreciate all the effort that you put into these series and look forward to the next. (but do take some time off between series, we don’t want you burning out)
I’ll be using these four episodes to prime players for my Flames of War: Vietnam campaign. They’ll get a lot of use I think.
Awesome, @templar007 – again, I hope to see reports and updates on that FoW ‘Nam camapign! 😀
Just for now I have but two little questions: Back in time I listened to a song by famous US punk band Dead Kennedy´s called “Holiday in Cambodia”. How do we have to imagine the American part of the war in Cambodia and who is Governor Brown, whom Jello Biafra describes as having an aura that smiles and never frowns? In the refrain of the song Biafra shputs Pol Pot over and over again. Was America engaged in Cambodia when Pol Pot was in power and did they do anything against Pol Pot´s murdering his own peolpe while subjugating them… Read more »
@jemmy – I am not familiar with the DK song. I don’t think the US was engaged in Cambodia (at least openly) when Pol Pot took over, to my knowledge the regime took over in April 1975, almost at the exact moment Saigon was falling. The Khmer Rogue might have been active in Cambodia before then … Now, for all the press it gets, the US invasion was only three months in 1970. And even then at least half the forces involved were South Vietnamese. One of those things people like to shit their pants about and gets blown way… Read more »
A nice podcast oriskany I think like many of the more recent conflicts Vietnam turned into more of a police action zone and the troops were/are not trained to deal with the problems they find around them.
This is what makes modern war “modern,” It’s not technology. Look at most of the wars in Africa and Asia, hey are shockingly low-tech. It is about “limited” operations. Forces either have no money, or must fight with the UN / TV / internet media / atomic weapons hanging over their shoulder.
With few exceptions, “modern” war = “limited” war.
gorilla forces in jeans an a t-shirt like everyone around them the ultimate camouflage.
Especially with modern war become more and more urban (i.e., with civilians at close proximity).
Some time ago we passed the global milestone where more than 50% of the people on earth lived in cities numbering 1 million people or more. Where the people go, the wars go.
The whole idea of a battle”field” is becoming obsolete.
yup the situations are getting muddier than a wet tractor pull.
Sad but true.
Great conclusion.
Still struggle to understand why the US wanted to get involved in ‘Nam. Where did the rabid anti-communism of the 1950s-60s come from? Was it really seen as a threat to the US?
Oh, hell yeah. The 1950s saw the peak of McCarthyism, the horror of Communist countries with atomic weapons, Communist uprisings as close as Cuba (90 miles from Florida) … If there was one thing people could agree on in America back then, Republican or Democrat, black or white, north or south, rich or poor, it was Communism = bad. Better to fight them “there” then wait to fight them “here.” Hell, even Hitler had allies from something like 15 countries when he first went into the Soviet Union in June 1941. He really was managing to sell himself (briefly) as… Read more »
He may have been thinking that the US mite would scare them into surrendering but that didn’t work out like the Germans bombing London in the war.