[unofficiall weekender] The 90ies called…. they want their games back.

[sundancer 43009xp 5]

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Read all of this before you start as it will save any trouble later.

First thing you must do is make your “pledge”. It can be anything gaming related, big or small, and you don’t even have to finish it. No, in here, happiness is the road. Have fun doing whatever it is, but it is not a race. Accompany your work with pictures or we might think you are do something sinister and just using us for cover.

You are also presented with a few questions. It is to get the conversation started. Try and keep your answers ‘conversational’, no text speak, and certainly no “basically”. This is how we all get to know each other better. While you are here feel free to tell us a story, show a picture, joke, tales of love or woe, or just add your own little bit. This is the whole point…in here it is just us.

If you have never taken part before we may bark and bite, but we also like a cuddle! It is all done in the best possible taste and it is character building. feel free to give as good as you get.

A few other things to note: NO RELIGION & NO POLITICS! Glasgow pub rules are in effect. If you need to make a better point then it is fine, but don’t take the piss. And always keep it civil.

Play plenty of music to go with your work. Loud and through proper speakers. Write us a playlist of things we might not have heard before.

Now, after all of that there is only one ‘real’ rule in here and it cannot be broken: NO DICKS! (Exceptions may be made for little fighting men with little plastic/resin/metal wieners)

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Questions:

1. What miniature game is the oldest you have? And by that I mean what has been sitting in you closet, on you shelves the longest.
2. Selling old stuff or gifting it away? Do you sell them at reasonable prices or will you take as much as you can get?
3. Going public domain. After how many years should a rule set (not an IP!) be considered public domain? Is it possible to keep a perfect rule system or does the hobby change so much, that a once perfect set of rules become broken?

[sundancer 43009xp 4]

My Answers:

1. 40k 3rd and WHFB 6th editions… only played 40k ever and the WHFB is basically just opened (not even build).
2. Money is tempting but I’d rather give it to someone who’s really into it and will give it the love and attention it deserves.
3. I think 20 years is good. One generation of profit should be enough 😉

Done a bit of hobby yesterday:

A little bit of test terrain

And started a new project:

SunDancers Gorkamorka restauration

[limburger 21738xp 2]

It’s the *wheeeeee*kender 😉

1) What miniature game is the oldest you have? And by that I mean what has been sitting in you closet, on you shelves the longest.
In rules that would be ’40k:Rogue Trader’ and Warhammer Fantasy Battle (2nd? edition).
I had the original metal Harlequins, but I’m not sure where they are in my big pile of metal/resin.

2) Selling old stuff or gifting it away? Do you sell them at reasonable prices or will you take as much as you can get?
I haven’t gifted or sold any of the old stuff I own.
However if I had to I’d probably gift it to someone or sell it for a reasonable price.

3a) Going public domain. After how many years should a rule set (not an IP!) be considered public domain?
Death of the author or 5 years since 1st publication.
Why ?
If you haven’t made profits in 5 years it’s not going to happen in 10 or 20 years.
The last thing we need is for a company to sit on rules and copyright law preventing a re-release/update simply because the company who owns the copyright refuses to do anything.

It might suck for systems that take 5+ years to become mainstream, but mainstream recognition is based on luck and thus highly overrated.

I’d apply this to both the rules as well as the IP, because once something becomes popular enough there’s nothing to be gained by limiting use to a select group of creators as it does not guarantee quality of the material (Star Wars itself is proof of that).

*ahem* Death to the mouse! *ahem*

3b) Is it possible to keep a perfect rule system or does the hobby change so much, that a once perfect set of rules become broken?

No rule set is ever perfect or unbreakable.
However I do believe that rulesets can have their own little niche in which they just work for people who play by the spirit/intent of the system.
The things that tend to break systems are things that were never meant to be designed to be part of it to begin with or things that never made sense (like vehicles in 28mm skirmish games).

When that happens rules need to be redesigned from scratch to comply with the new intent/design philosophy.
Trying anything else is like using a hammer to smash in screws. It might work, but it’s not going to be pretty.

// — edit —

Music to inspire …

 

[sundancer 43009xp 2]

If you haven’t made profits in 5 years it’s not going to happen in 10 or 20 years.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Sometime it just takes a while to gain traction. Most new and fresh businesses need 3 – 5 years to start making profit. Remember profit is when you have gotten all your investments back. A game/business could be popular and in high demand without making profit at first. 5 years not making any revenue may be a different thing.

[hobbyhubParticipant 4169xp 3]

As someone that studied Accounting at university for 3 years and worked with Accountants them extensively for over 25 years, I don’t agree with your definition of profit @sundancer.

Things could have changed since I left my previous employment, but accountancy isn’t know for its radical changes.

In accounting, there are a number of terms that include the word “Profit”:

Profit and Loss Statement – a document that lists revenues and expenditures for a business leading to a finding of whether it made a profit/loss/broke even.

Gross Profit – revenues for sales of goods or services less the direct cost of their provision.

Net Profit – Gross Profit less indirect costs (eg overheads, depreciation, interest on loans and tax)

So a business can make a profit before all investors are paid back their full investment amount.

If fact a business should make a profit before investors are paid any dividend, but I’m not that naïve to believe that is always the case.

[limburger 21738xp 3]

@sundancer let me rephrase it a bit :

If your system hasn’t gained traction and shown signs of nearing critical mass then it’s not going to happen.
There may be exceptions, but I wouldn’t want to bet on those unless you have really deep pockets and a ton of passion.
It is easy to lose sight of this, because it is tempting to think “one more year and we’re clear”.

One thing that is (IMHO) important to the success of a system is to not try and be the next ‘GW’.
That is a fools’ game.

[beccasParticipant 1146xp 1]

1. Crossfire by Arty Conliffe

2. I don’t sell any wargaming stuff.  I have swapped a few items.

3. I don’t believe any rule set should become public domain unless the owner of it makes it so.

[rayzryrParticipant 22410xp 4]

Happy Sunday fellow hobbyists!

Time for some hobby ?

My pledge this week will be to Finally finish these Elves and Marines.

Answers, then…

Hero Quest. Closely followed by Space Crusade. I’m old enough to remember when the ads were on tv. I’ve had at least one copy of each in my possession since they were new. Eventually I’ll get around to “re-making” them: a project planned for the future.

Depends on how much I need the money… right now, I’m ok. I’m always open to trading though!

I’ve no idea… I would have thought if it was still being revisited/ new editions being published then the rights would be retained by the publisher. If it was abandoned, then, fair game. Necromunda/ Blood Bowl/ Inquisitor spring to mind: at some point abandoned by their publisher, kept alive and revised by the community.

Tunes, to get me going:

[Anonymous 0xp 2]

Late to the party.

Pledge – Yesterday I played Black Seas and Kings of War, I’ll post pics later.  Tonight, after I cook dinner, I am going to do some work on my Kings of War armies… building more Dwarfs, Undeads and maybe some Naughty Dwarfs…

1. I’ve miniatures and some components from games from the 90s but no actual rules or complete games.  Space Fleet, Epic, Blood Bowl, plus WFB and 40k stuff.

2. I’ll give stuff away but if I am going to sell stuff I’ll want to extract the most money I can get from it – if people value something so much, I’ll be the one to benefit.

3. Difficult one to answer and it would take too much time.

Also any definition of profit needs to include the opportunity cost of alternative uses of the resources involved.  That is the economist in me….

[grumpygraeme 923xp 2]

It can’t seriously be Sunday night already can it???!!!!!!!

It’s been a busy week with the family and the kids have lots of coughs and sniffles which has made evenings ( and unit erupted sleep) an absolute disaster!!!!

Might get a little paint on some mini’s later but will depend on how well the kids sleep!

I have space crusade somewhere and the 2nd edition ( I think) 40k box set. Brings back lots of fuzzy memories getting them and not having a fucking clue what it was all about but loving the models and the fact that it was WAR!!!

I have never sold any of my stuff and am unluckily to unless it starts  putting too much strain on joists in the attic!

really not sure about the last one!!

With a lot of these complex topics on the thread and weekender I just don’t think I have enough information or know about the subject to really make a helpful point!

Right, need to get the dishes done!

[sundancer 43009xp 3]

welcome one, welcome all… it’s Monday. I hope you all had a nice weekend. I got a little bit of hobby done:

Missing parts?

[Anonymous 0xp 3]

[Anonymous 0xp 3]

[sundancer 43009xp 1]

@robert that looks like a long, enjoyable weekend you had?

[Anonymous 0xp 2]

Just Saturday.

Woke at 6.30… got bus to Belfast to meet Paul (@lordsanes) at 8.45am.  Arrived at OTT headquarters at about 10am.  Played Black Seas, played a game of Kings of Robert (my version of the Kings of War is more fun and result in me saying “sure, that sounds fair, why not”, ate, Gerry and Paul played actual KoW, I played Gerry at actual KOW and then back to Belfast to get the 9.15pm train.  Back home about 10.30pm.  Great fun.  Paul, Gerry and myself are going to try and do it once a month – and we really have great craic – getting some games in is the cherry on top!

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