[unofficial weekender] Old, well aged or obsolete?

[sundancer 42900xp 2]

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First time visitor to OTT? Then please introduce yourself in the New Member Thread and look around in the Project System. Then come back and read on…

https://www.beastsofwar.com/forums/topic/introduce-yourselves-new-member-thread/

https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/

Read all of this before you start as it will save you any trouble later.

First thing you must do is make your “pledge”. It can be anything gaming related, big or small, and you don’t even have to finish it. No, in here, happiness is the road. Have fun doing whatever it is, but it is not a race. Accompany your work with pictures or we might think you are do something sinister and just using us for cover.

You are also presented with a few questions. It is to get the conversation started. Try and keep your answers ‘conversational’, no text speak, and certainly no “basically”. This is how we all get to know each other better. While you are here feel free to tell us a story, show a picture, joke, tales of love or woe, or just add your own little bit. This is the whole point…in here it is just us.

If you have never taken part before we may bark and bite, but we also like a cuddle! It is all done in the best possible taste and it is character building. feel free to give as good as you get.

A few other things to note: NO RELIGION & NO POLITICS! Glasgow pub rules are in effect. If you need to make a better point then it is fine, but don’t take the piss. And always keep it civil.

Play plenty of music to go with your work. Loud and through proper speakers. Write us a playlist of things we might not have heard before.

Now, after all of that there is only one ‘real’ rule in here and it cannot be broken: NO DICKS! (Exceptions may be made for little fighting men with little plastic/resin/metal wieners)

And don’t forget the highlights of the weekend: The Weekender on Friday and XLBS on Sunday. And the little show that is the unofficial Hobby Hangout over at twitch.tv

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Questions:

• At what point does a tabletop miniature game become “old” and what is the difference to a “well aged” system?
• Did you ever find any of your games to be obsolete and why?
• Have you ever tried to make your own set of rules for a complete game? So not just some house rules for an existing thing but from scratch? If yes: who do you feel about it today? If no: why not?

And now back to the show.

[sundancer 42900xp 2]

Pledge: Not spend all my hobby time just on Homeworld on my PC. XD

Answers:

• I think old is just the games of our youth that we still remember fondly but who’s rules really don’t hold up today any more. HeroQuest gets mentioned in this context a lot. Though I haven’t played that often enough to really judge it by myself.
• Games don’t really get obsolete as long as someone still enjoys it. It might not bring anything new to the table any more and most people are bored of it but really “obsolete” is state no game could ever reach. Either someone enjoys it or the rules get forgotten at which point it gets an artefact of the gaming past.
• No. Never did. I wouldn’t know where to start, I’d be nicking things left, right and centre and in the end I would have a bad clone of the one or two gaming systems I know. And that’s probably the main reason: I don’t know shit. At least in regards to games and rules. I’m aware of many games but I read only a handful of rules and played even less. Plus I get easily excited for some things only to just let them slip eventually.

Music!

And now: coffee

[horati0nosebl0wer 19610xp 3]

Pledge: Finish the vikings I meant to last thread

WIP

A system becomes old when there ceases to be a player base willing to play it with joy and the manufacturer just drops support. A well aged system has the player support and the development by the publisher occurs with infrequent changes or additions.

Mordheim, Bloodbowl (at one time), Malifaux 2nd ed. all were obsolete when I couldn’t find people to play with

I haven’t made up any game systems because I’m neither a statistician nor an architect. I can say these minis are cool and the fluff is grand but making a game takes me into a realm where I just falter in creation.

Time for sleep

[demonsub 12746xp 1]

Happy Friday.

My pledge is to try to get at least one or two miniatures painted, probably a Void and a Pig Iron miniature.
Next week I’m off work and I’m planning on playing a load of Space Station Zero Games. I’ve started a new project on it here – https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/1774776/

 

At what point does a tabletop miniature game become “old” and what is the difference to a “well aged” system?

A well aged system I’d say, is a game with an older, more outdated set of rules compared with current trends but which is still played and beloved by many players, say Battletech for example.

Did you ever find any of your games to be obsolete and why?

With my group it seems like Warhammer Fantasy Battle is obsolete, since we just give up playing it after it was dropped by GW. Also we stop playing many older versions of games once a newer version comes out. Generally an obsolete game for myself would be once I no longer have any personal interest in it anymore.

Have you ever tried to make your own set of rules for a complete game? So not just some house rules for an existing thing but from scratch? If yes: who do you feel about it today? If no: why not?

I’ve adapted a few multiplayer scenarios for Frostgrave into solo scenarios for myself but that’s it for me. I’d really rather be playing or hobbying over rules design.

 

[zorg 18799xp 1]

Lol nout wrong with playing Homeworld all day if you can.

[danlee 22433xp 2]

This week’s pledge is to paint some 10mm Wood Elves. It took me all week just to apply the milliput to their bases and get them undercoated. Looks like I got it done just before the rain hit.

 

1. At what point does a tabletop miniature game become “old” and what is the difference to a “well aged” system? – I class anything as old if you get a glazed expression when you mention it to younger people. I’d say a well aged system is one that gets said glazed look, yet is still enjoyable to play.
2. Did you ever find any of your games to be obsolete and why? – Any game that stops getting support from the manufacturer becomes obsolete. No new releases to keep me interested and a rapidly dwindling base of people to play it with spell its doom.
3. Have you ever tried to make your own set of rules for a complete game? So not just some house rules for an existing thing but from scratch? If yes: who do you feel about it today? If no: why not? – I once tried making a car/board game. I put quite a bit into it but lacked the motivation to push it beyond the one playtest set. I still think it was a good concept but with Kickstarter churning out so many games these days I doubt it could ever see the light of day.

And Homeworld is epic.

[redscopeParticipant 2711xp 2]

So my pledge is to paint these wargames atlantic this weekend I have just been out to prime them so fair chance I might get them finished.

Tabletop miniature games fall into two groups. Those that are in a constant shift of updates such as bolt action, infinity etc etc so they never really get old. Then you have the ones which are static either they are one hit games normally board game style or they are out of production. Certainly when they fall out of production you cannot buy them in the shops they become old quickly.

Yes to a degree games become obsolete at least personally. I dont feel the need to go back and play the original Blood Bowl Game. Not because it was bad but if I am going to play it I would choose the new edition. Those games still hold a space on the shelve but unlikely they will grace the table again.

I did write my own Fighting Fantasy book when I was about 15. Come to think of it I did back then write a number of D&D campaigns we used to play out. I was not much good to be honest but then without the internet and anyone else to be critical of them I was happy with it.

I do have the best idea for an RPG. Coronation Street the RPG. You get play one of the characters from the street and together with 3-4 others you have to complete daily tasks on the street. Like getting into the Rovers Return to sample one of betty’s HotPots. You have the evil tracy barlow trying to out wit you at every turn.

It is going to have standies and maybe a board of the square you can travel around. I tell you it is going to be amazing if i ever start work on it. Maybe I should do a kickerstarter asking for 3 million to get it off the ground one day.

[ced1106Participant 6224xp 3]

> At what point does a tabletop miniature game become “old”

Dice-based dungeoncrawlers and miniature games are “old” in my book. Sure, if you’d like to spend another $50+ on rules, $100+ on miniatures, then 100+ hours painting them before the next similar “evolution not revolution” game comes along, you’re welcome to drain your hobby budget. I collect miniatures that come with free boardgames (: and that’s enough to keep me busy without buying yet another game system.

> Did you ever find any of your games to be obsolete and why?

As someone who used to play CCG’s and RPG’s, I got off the version treadmill — then started collecting miniatures. 😛 I less find games obsolete than redundant, recycling game mechanics I’ve already played.

> Have you ever tried to make your own set of rules for a complete game?

Made some rules-light RPG’s, one using the SGJ Cthulhu Die. Kept on the back-burner a diceless miniatures game, that fits the chaotic theme of a western gunfight. The game uses AI so can even be played “nolo” and watch everyone make dumb mistakes and shoot themselves. And not only can you play a gunslinger with a trigger-happy semi-incompetent posse, but also a civilian who’s caught in the middle of this mess. I’ll probably make it compatible with the Zombicide: Undead or Alive miniatures, so will include zombies, at least.

[limburger 21668xp 2]

1) At what point does a tabletop miniature game become “old” and what is the difference to a “well aged” system?

Games never become ‘old’ unless the rules suck and new games show how to do similar things better …

And that to me is the difference between ‘old’/’obsolete’ and ‘well aged’
One has rules and mechanics that simply aren’t any fun for the new generation.
The other has mechanics that have proven themselves over the years.

2) Did you ever find any of your games to be obsolete and why?
Yep … mostly because the mechanics were silly and needlessly complex. D&D/AD&D 2nd edition suffered from this.
At first I thought 3rd edition would fix things, but in hindsight it added more things to it that it didn’t really need.
I’ve sort of come to understand why OSR are so popular … and it’s primarily because they get down to the bare bones needed for RPG’s : a couple of stats and lots of imagination.

Do I really need a list of hundred different skills and feats ?
Or do I just improvise by using whatever backstory I got to justify wether or not a character can do stuff ?

I believe a lot of the rules comes from the need of a certain type of player to want to find and exploit loopholes.
And it’s good for business if you can convince people that they need to buy your expansions in order to have a ‘better’ and ‘more complete’ game.

3) Have you ever tried to make your own set of rules for a complete game? So not just some house rules for an existing thing but from scratch? If yes: who do you feel about it today? If no: why not?
Define ‘complete game’ …
Last year I had a bit of an inspiration to make a silly short beer&pretzels type of game.
However other than getting the basic idea/concept on paper I never finished it.
I might revisit it once I got another round of inspiration … because like writing code there is fun to be had in thinking about systems and mechanics.

Biggest hurdle would be finding people who would want to play and deciding when the game would be fun/balanced enough to play at all.

There’s also the challenge of finding and/or making the components, but at a local (board)game convention I saw one shop selling all sorts of meeples and boardgame related materials that were not dice.

I am a believer of simple systems, because  complex rules that force people to do certain things invariably lack fun and are counterintuitive at best which results in them being ignored.

I hope I can get myself in the mood for some hobby time, because I really really should do more than just read (and complain) about stuff. 😀

[pagan8thParticipant 10744xp 1]

There are days when I feel old, well aged and obsolete…

[limburger 21668xp 1]

@pagan8th but today is not that day 😉

[pagan8thParticipant 10744xp 0]

Before work I didn’t… after work I did 🙁

[limburger 21668xp 3]

that’s why we hobby … to feel like a kid again 😀

I did some hobby … and am documenting it for proof

GW – Landraider – 1988 (so says the sprue), primaris for scale

[fourtytwoParticipant 12847xp 0]

Yes.

[sundancer 42900xp 2]

*ping*

Still alive… just was playing Battletech for most of the weekend. Will catch up on this thread later! 8) Need to work now… or do I?

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