The Old World

[wolfie65Participant 1240xp 1]

The whole video is worth watching – as are all Bard and Dr.Blaxill videos- but on the subject of scale, skip to about 2:03.

In another ‘price leak’ video, it says that the basic rulebook will be about $ 54, the army compilations about $ 20 each, which is just barely acceptable and, if true, somewhat surprisingly ‘cheap’ considering it’s a Nomad Investments product. Wonder if there will be softcover versions.

On the subject of ranking troopers up, dynamic poses are great for character models, skirmishers or ‘warband’ type games – Warhammer Skirmish, Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Flintloque, Erin, Moonstone, Judge Dredd etc. – in which each model is supposed to represent 1 unique individual, but kind of annoying in mass battle games, in which a unit of, say, 20 Halberdiers represents a rank and file unit of at least 10 or even 100 times as many real life soldiers, all trained and equipped to be more or less identical.

For example, as nice as newer High Elf Spearmen may lookand as detailed and sophisticated the newer sculpts may be, I still prefer the old 4th edition monopose Spearmen, easily some of the most iconic fantasy minis ever made and boy, do they look good as a rank and file  unit.

[elessar2590 18207xp 0]

@onlyonepinman they are clearly bigger than the older knights which is all people are saying, scale creep exists, and once we see them next to other human sized figures it will be more clear. Also there is no ‘new trebuchet’, they recast the old one in resin rather than metal, that’s very different to the scale creep of brand new sculpts which is what we’re talking about and GW has already admitted is a thing. Again I’m not sure what we need other than GW’s own words “Over the decades, our models have become larger and more dynamic, which means that many units have become difficult to arrange into ranks and files. ”

[onlyonepinman 18068xp 0]

@elessar2590 given that there were no “older” foot knights we can only compare them to the cavalry knights, which were slightly larger than the peasants, although not quite as chunky as the foot knights.  I don’t see a great deal of scale creep at all and GW’s “own words” refer use the words “over the years”.  That’s a historical statement, made about models that were made decades ago, it’s not an admission of scale creep in new models – an explanation as to why things like Bretonnian Peasants – very old sculpts – which were previously on 20mm bases are now coming on 25mm bases.  It’s got absolutely nothing to do with the new sculpts

@wolfie65 once again, you found something on YouTube and have decided that’s the truth.  But the discussion about scale in that video is so full of mistakes and conspiracy theories it’s unreal. The assertion that WFB was “28mm” is totally false.  They weren’t even Heroic 28mm by the end of 8th edition – it was already pushing the 30mm mark.  You can look up scale comparisons of 28mm medieval knights to Bretonnian knights.  They admit that the original Damsel model that they measured in “heads” was artificially small (she was, at 5 heads).  They make out that the new one is “7 heads tall” but the posing is artificially stretching the miniature.  Essentially they are measuring a diagonal line, due to the angle of the model and also from an outstretched toe (yes, she’s doing a tip-toe, foot on rock pose).  And the peasants were ALWAYS dwarfed by the knights.   And let’s save the best until last – GW are making sure you can’t play Newhanner using Oldhammer miniatures because bases.  What a load of nonsense.  There are a number of ways around that, starting with “just ignore the base size” but also including movement trays that adapt the base sizes or just rebasing miniatures.  But I can see why you would like this video.

[elessar2590 18207xp 0]

There were actually older foot knights just not in the last edition but the minis do exist. It’s not about bases, not sure why you even mentioned them, I like the bigger bases, it does help rank minis up. What completely negates that however is the scale creep. If you make the bases bigger and keep the minis the same, that’s good. If you make them both bigger, what’s the point? The new Knights are much bigger than other human sized minis and their mounted counterparts, that’s visually jarring to me. I mean you can’t deny that the new foot knights are bigger than normal human minis and the mounted knights, if not then there’s no point continuing this conversation, we can just wait until they get released and see it with our own eyes.

It’s absolutely baffling to me why people refuse to admit what is so obvious, newer GW minis are bigger, scale creep is real. Just look at Horus Heresy where the early minis are tiny compared to the more recent stuff, it’s just a reality of GW. Again I’m baffled you are even arguing about this “Over the decades, our models have become larger and more dynamic” means the models have become larger.

[wolfie65Participant 1240xp 0]

The reasons why we’re arguing shall remain nameless, but according to the Bard/Dr. Blaxill video, the new Bretonninan Wizard girl is afull 2 heads (!!!) taller than her predecessor. That’s WAY more of a growth spurt than even I was expecting. My 40mm Nürnberger Meisterzinn figures are starting to look like a viable option.

It could be explained, of course. Maybe her parents were emigrés from Nordland/Marienburg and that’s why she’s so tall.

I have at least 1 of those older (5th edition) foot knights and he looks normal next to his contemporaries, but rather Dwarfish next to more modern models.

I’m not too worried about scale, as already stated, people aren’t all the same size in real life, so why should this be different in a fantasy world ? Haven’t painted them yet, but I got some Imperial City Militia from Raging Hormones, erm, Heroes, and those girls look positively Amazonian next to my Battlemasters Halberdiers. Fat chance of any of those guys getting a date.

Maybe they are also Nordländer, sort of like the Varangian (read: Viking) guard at the Byzantine court……..

[pagan8thParticipant 10882xp 3]

What a surprise… Old World sold out already.

No matter… I’ve got all I need to play Warhammer Fantasy Battles in the Old World…

 

[piersParticipant 25489xp 4]

Well managed to snag a set of Old World books on pre-order.

40 years ago this year I bought the red box on the shelf, so thought one last pop at it…

[jamescutts 6929xp 3]

By all accounts I believe congratulations are on order for managing to get something ordered @piers. Look forward to seeing what you get upto, I’ve enjoyed the Mordheim project and your posts on the rather entertaining Facebook group, are you planning to do a project on here for it too? I’d love to see more of the awesome collection, and maybe even a battle report for gerry!

[wolfie65Participant 1240xp 1]

@onlyonepinman – Believe it or not  (guessing you won’t…), but WHFB minis were, indeedy-doo-dah, 28 mm at some point, although you do have to go back to about 3rd edition to find such.

They were even smaller before that, more in line with ther 25mm scale that was pretty much the standard in the 1970s and early 80s. They got bigger. And bigger. And bigger. And they continue to do so.

Btw, you can’t stretch a head……If 1 figure is 5 un-stretchable heads tall and another 7 un-stretchable heads tall, that means one’s quite a bit taller than the other.

[solarParticipant 2781xp 0]

@jamescutts Which Facebook group is this? Id be interested in having a look if you dont mind telling me

[grantinvanman 2205xp 0]

I’m working on a marketing strategy for this:

Nomad Investments: we suck, and we know it.

Nomad Investments: fuck everyone.

Nomad Investments: what would happen if a hobo took over a struggling games company? Let’s try!

Nomad Investments: shit, we’ve fucked it up, already.

[grantinvanman 2205xp 0]

Interesting post from Element Games today, regarding the Old World release …

A Notice Regarding Warhammer: The Old World.

We are disappointed to report that stock allocations are incredibly low for all products in this release. We won’t be able to offer it for online sale and will have very limited stock in our physical stores. We have been made aware that most of the products are planned to be restocked in the future but haven’t yet been given a firm date.

[elessar2590 18207xp 1]

@grantinvanman yep the same happened in Australia. Gap Games, the biggest hobby retailer in QLD, got 400+ copies of the Horus Heresy starter set and sold them all within 48 hours and they ordered similar numbers of Fantasy stuff, they got 30 boxes of each. They even had an EOI form to fill out to pre-pre-order that got hundreds of responses.

 

Either GW is so incompetent that they’ve once again dropped a major sales ball or it’s done on purpose to keep the FOMO train going.

[grantinvanman 2205xp 0]

It’s Nomad Investments, now. GW is no more. It’s a corporate faceless group that makes terrible decisions. And they are most assuredly incompetent, it would seem.

Ironically, I was in Melbourne in November, walked into a tiny games shop in the downtown – and found a copy of Flight of the Eisenstein, 2022 print run, sitting on the shelf. So random. I’d been hunting for a sub-$100 copy for years.

@pagan8th nice vintage collection.

 

[wolfie65Participant 1240xp 1]

Many online pundits like to say that politician so-and-so has ‘gone insane’ or that corporation X have ‘lost their mind’ when the latest New World Order type agenda is implemented, alienating a huge swathe of their customer base, but, sadly, neither is the case.

It’s very deliberate. Movies cost hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of $’s to produce, not even the tiniest detail is left to chance. That cereal box you see sitting on that counter in scene such-and-such was put there for a reason.

Same with gaming companies, especially one as big as GW-cum-NI.

Some say that they Dresdened the (original) Old World because of IP issues, but I don’t believe that, not being able to copyright words like ‘Elves’ or ‘Orcs’ wasn’t a problem for them for 40 years and still isn’t a problem for many other companies, so that argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Other factors were at play. The same factors that gave us the SlimeAzon version of LotR and virtually every Disney movie of the past 30 years. They’re not incompetent, they’re evil.

And, as most of us have realized, the enthusiastic gamers who founded and built the company are no longer there, having been pushed out by the bean counters and corporate attorneys.

Which is why I will keep my investment in The New World (sic) to a minimum, I do want to participate and be as up-to-date as a grognard like myself can be, but I’ll probably limit myself to books, I’ve got more minis than I can paint in 3 or 4 lifetimes anyway.

@grantinvanman – I don’t remember how much I paid for Flight of the Eisenstein – or my other Horus Heresy paperbacks – but I’m sure none of them cost me more than US$ 10, years ago. A quick look at http://www.thriftbooks.com today reveals a going price of US$ 73.89……..

What is wrong with people ?

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