SPQR, Mortal Gods, thoughts, help, and lack of reviews?

[jahatch28 2481xp 0]

Howdy.. so my buddy and I are looking into Mortal Gods, SPQR, and the like… we have a mix of other historical models and have dabbled in other eras, have a friend who’s got the Hail Caesar starter… so it’s not that finding models is an issue.

But.. I was looking through the OTT site and I can’t find anything about the hub-bub regarding SPQR and the rules FAQ version 1.2 and apparently a lot of peoples’ issues with game balance, etc.  Which I thought was odd (especially on the heals of OTT doing a few Let’s Play and new release segments and the “need for Critical Reviews” segments).

So, has anybody actually gotten the SPQR or Mortal Gods stuff on the table?  Has anybody been playing around with SPQR and the rules changes?

Thanks! and looking forward to some critical reviews! or just general reviews!

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

I think the “findings” after the debate is to join the relevant Facebook Groups and ask for reviews. Warren said OTT can’t afford the time to play all the games enough times to do a “review” on any ruleset. There’s also a viewer ran “Games Review” portion of OTT, but  this is maintained by reviews from individuals.

 

[jahatch28 2481xp 0]

So, there are no reviews of the game yet on the OTT game review section… hence my question.

And I guess I’m confused by your recommendation… are you saying “don’t bother posting on the forums” and just poll FB for feedback?  I’m not really looking for knee-jerk reactions from people mad on FB that the game had errata within the first month of release (re: SPQR).  I was looking for some more rational comparisons from a community that has potentially less ranting and raving (yes, I know I’m still on the internet, so all comments to be taken with salt).

And I get that OTT isn’t responsible for thoroughly playtesting every game that they review.  That said, if there are game that grab the attention and interest of the crew (and the community) I’d expect to see more content regarding those games.  The FB fanpages and such are generally good source of updates and rules queries, but they don’t tend to have a lot of comparison between games as they are generally being organized by fans and it would be quite unusual for the folks running the SPQR fan page to say “hey, check out Mortal Gods, it might be superior”… lol.

[torros 23808xp 0]

There are reviews online of both games. I think you just have to read all you can and make a decision. I don’t know anything about Mortal Gods but the company producing it has as good track record. Friends have told me not touch SPQR with s barge pole as even the FAQ’s contradict each other and they’ve already re written the melee rules so I don’t hold out much hope got it

Personally I’m waiting for Clash of Spears as from everything I’ve read it does exactly what I want from a game like hidden movement etc. I’m even thinking of doing it in 28mm !

[suetoniuspaullinusMember 12198xp 3]

It’s a shame SPQR has had such a bad start. I’ve watched several Let’s Plays and the more I’ve seen of it the more I liked it actually.

I think the core problem are the gamers’ expectations. It is not about being a Bolt Action for ancients, it’s about a hero and his warband of entirely dispensable minions.

Totally beer and pretzels.

A lot of older wargamers in particular tend to take all a bit to serious when it comes to ‘historical’ gaming I think and want to have every eventuality precisely covered by the rules.

Clearly SPQR is not for them. I, however, really like it after having lost my one and so far only game against my daughter’s Gauls.

Quick, tons of dice and total slaughter ???

Mortal Gods is by far the more refined game with some excellent ideas and rules. It’s got the same theme but in a specifically Greek setting. It also is designed by Andy Hobday, a friend of mine and a top bloke all round. Of course I cannot say anything bad about it just that it is massively underrated/ underrepresented just like its predecessors Test of Honour and Gangs of Rome.

Both core boxes, SPQR and Mortal Gods, are cheap enough to justify their purchase imho, the price of the miniatures alone makes it worthwhile and you can sell what you don’t want easily on eBay.

 

 

[warzanKeymaster 30960xp 0]

Not a review per se but probably better if you check the SPQR section here: https://www.beastsofwar.com/game/spqr/

 

We have a round break down so you can see the basics

Round Breakdown: SPQR

 

And currently 2 lets plays where you can see the game and the progression between games

Let’s Play: SPQR – Occupy Sacred Ground

Let’s Play: SPQR – Breaking Through The Lines

 

The above should give you what you need to make an informed decision on whether the game is likely for you 🙂

 

[torros 23808xp 2]

@warzan  I did mention it in my post but but I think its fair enough to mention it again for people  in that the combat rules have changed since you did your lets plays

[jahatch28 2481xp 1]

Also… surprisingly there is very little “new” content online (youtube, podcasts, etc) that I can find regarding EITHER system… the most recent Mortal Gods content is very much painting and such (which is great BTW, but not what I’m looking for) but there is almost nothing regarding play throughs or reviews that aren’t unboxings that I can find ATM.

The SPQR changes (which do sound to be for the better) do make almost all of those original previews, walk-throughs, etc much less useful and there hasn’t been more than a few blog posts about ‘the new version’ of the game other than the social media discussions which are sadly a bit heated at times and most of the responses seem to be based on very limited game experiences (which goes back to the OTT discussion about how many games you may want to get before you start commenting on a system… Justin’s view that he knows bullocks when he sees it, vs Lloyd’s view to hold off till you’ve played it more than just a few times).

That all said, probably just means I should be playing and writing my own reviews to help other people out as well… lol.  It is only money and time, right?

[limburger 21672xp 1]

I think this is a problem for any system that isn’t in the top 5 of most played games within any given genre/theme even on dedicated sites.

So yeah, the only way to ‘solve’ this is for folks like you to start posting their experiences.
Internet being what it is the negative opinions tend to get posted a lot faster than any positive experience as those folks are too busy having fun.

That chicken&egg paradox does suck, because if you do want to know more about certain games there’s almost no way to avoid spending money.

[osbad 4277xp 1]

The Mortal Gods rules cost £6 for a digital copy of the rules, and SPQR costs £10.  Given models aren’t an issue I think the suggestion is to buy a digital copy of both rulebooks and make your own mind up which you prefer.  On the other hand, you may think they are both OK, and then you are really sunk!  😉

Reviews are all very well, and I find them interesting, but in the end, so much of what determines whether a game is “good” for you is subjective.

If you believe Facebook SPQR is the spawn of the devil, but most of what I read in that regard seems to be a load of blethering by whinging grognards who would twist on 21 and seem to want a ruleset that does everything for them including wiping their arse.  My mates at the club have played a couple of games enjoyed it well enough and that’s good enough for me to invest in the set and give it a whirl myself in due course.

I don’t know anyone personally who has played Mortal Gods, yet, but Andy and the guys from Footsore are experienced enough to have written an interesting set of rules.  They are on my  “to purchase” list and would have already been purchased had someone else leapt first so that I didn’t have to be the muggins who teaches everyone else how to play!

 

[jahatch28 2481xp 2]

Part of the problem is that I’m very happy to collect rules and even starter sets… so I’m trying.. unsuccessfully… to be more careful with my purchases and trying to focus my hobby time on a smaller # of games… at one point I’d started making a list of all the games (miniatures mostly, some card games, a few board games with a miniature component) that I could play immediately if I’d wanted to 1) dig them out and 2) remember how to play… and it was over 30 and closer to 40… which just isn’t realistic.

Now, that said, I’m very much happy to play a game for 3-4 months, maybe 6 months, enjoy it, and then ‘retire it’ as my gaming groups and local meta moves onto the next thing… and some of the games from that list go back to the ’90s… so realistically they aren’t on the “top 10 games I’m likely to play this year list”… but Osbad’s suggestion to get the PDFs and have a go is both 1) the most likely thing for me to do and 2) the worst thing for me to do… lol… #SquirrelGaming #ShinySyndrome #GamerADHD

[piersParticipant 25488xp 2]

Or maybe the whinging old grognards just want historical rules to have some resemblance of history in them?

Or not… maybe they are just whinging, I dont know either game to be honest.

 

 

[jahatch28 2481xp 0]

… uhm.. except my point was “where are the updated reviews” and “how about a comparison for those players (grognard or new to historicals or in-between) who are interested in the games”… I don’t care (in this case) about the grumbling as much as I was surprised by the lack of updates after the revisions (for SPQR) and the lack of reviews of game play of Mortal Gods other than few unboxings when it dropped.

The grognards vs rules and rules vs grognards and reality vs rules and vice versa is a totally different subject =p… in this case, there is some question of ‘ready for release’ or ‘needed playtesting’.. I don’t know that it was really a historical issue, except that as others have pointed out, the game maybe was targeted at newer players that weren’t looking for a true and accurate historical skirmish game which may have been part of the problem with the feedback being predominately from experienced historical gamers that were just looking for a smaller skirmish style game and didn’t get what they thought they were getting.

But again, I digress, as that wasn’t really the point of the O.P.

[piersParticipant 25488xp 2]

Well part of the problem with a lack of reviews and updates may be that so many games hit so frequently these days, if it’s not a hit right from the start… it may not get to be and the excitement and pick up drops off.

If a game requires errata from the off or is perceived to be flawed mechanically from the outset, I guess that might explain the lack of commentary/reviews too, though you’d hope that they would at least review the updates…

I always think you need to play a game a good few times before you really get a grip on the mechanics and what they are aiming at.

 

 

 

[osbad 4277xp 0]

Not to go off on a tangent, from the “issues” that keep coming up in the Facebook group (aside from the “but that doesn’t reflect reality” issues) pretty much boil down to ambiguities.   I appreciate that this irritates some people to the point that they hate the game, but for me and the people I play with we just muddle along and just adapt the rules, house ruling if need  be, or maybe just mashing in some common mechanic from a different game either because it needs fixing, or more likely: because we got confused and reverted back to a different ruleset in our heads! (After you’ve been gaming for a few decades, it gets awfully confusing!)

Could they have been better playtested?  Of course – name me a ruleset that couldn’t!  Could they have been better proofread?  Yes to this too, and this is a more serious lapse on Warlord’s part – getting a set of rules read through by an experienced proofreader should be a de minimis call on any publisher’s part, but frankly for me, life’s too short.  Does it have mistakes?  Sure.  But how much you care depends on how much of a rules lawyer you are and how much perfection you like in your rules.  And also, how much of a Mr Angry you are when it comes to a hobby one is supposed to be enjoying and having fun with!

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