SLA Industries: Cannibal Sector 1 KS dead

[wfgdrmrParticipant 400xp 1]

Great thank you Tankkommander for that proof of my point.

Panzerkaput: understood, but for clarities sake Hysterical Games are nothing to do with WFG or NFG, although they too were suppliers of Daruma and not fully paid for the work they did. This was good for us and this KS as it allowed us to buy the unpaid stock…just a shame that we could not help them further. And to be clear as I understand it Wessex Games (the IP owner of Panzerfauste and Spytfyre) are aiming to complete the 2 KS.

[wfgdrmrParticipant 400xp 1]

I mentioned above that the discussion here between Tankkommander and I had been on going on another thread (https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/rules-sla-industries-cannibal-sector-1/)  and I stated on the other thread some points, which should probably be featured on this one too, here is my post:

“Wow! A lot of statements here from people that don’t have a full understanding of the situation.
Let me confirm some things for you all:

1. Like a band, Nightfall Games has had a lot of members over the years, but 2 have been there since the beginning and are the creators of SLA Industries.
2. Those 2 joined Daruma with 2 others. The 2 Nightfall fellows were non-executive directors (means were not in charge of the money).
3. A number of individuals over the years have had a beef with Nightfall (for various reasons) and have therefore reason to chuck shit…this is easy to do from behind a keyboard and pseudonym.
4. 3 directors left at once, all three were NOT the director in charge of the money.
5. Word Forge Games were asked to buy into Daruma, take over the KS fulfilment and hence own the miniature game by the 2 executive directors, before the 3 directors left. The miniature game was a co-production by Daruma and Nightfall at that time (look at the first sentence of the KS for evidence of that). In the process of due diligence, WFG discovered that Daruma was insolvent. 3 directors left Daruma at that point. 1 has disappeared from the industry and the 2 non-executive (Nightfall) have since partnered with WFG (as Nightfall Games) and a 4th individual to fulfil the KS.
6. As stated on the KS, it was a partnership between Daruma and Nighfall. Daruma has entered liquidation and Nightfall (with financial input from WFG), as is its obligation, is working to complete it. Someone above stated that the non-executive directors have jumped ship and left the one Daruma director holding the baby – I would suggest that in fact the non-executive directors have actually rescued the baby and are now metaphorically bringing it up).
7. There was 2 options, A. SLA Industries and Nightfall died with Daruma and the KS backers (and preorderers) got nothing. B. WFG and Nighfall paired up, completed the KS and worked to bring SLA Industries RPG into the 21st century. We decided on number B (and for that we are 100% unapologetic).
8. None of the 4 directors have jumped ship from Daruma (again look at Daruma on companies house for proof). All 4 are still shareholders and are working on the liquidation process. The one still a director and both the ‘nightfall ones’ are working together to close Daruma. I can assure you that the sole objective of the current Nightfall team is to ensure SLA Industries survives and that the KS they are now solely responsible for is fulfilled.

I know it is fun to make assumptions upon assumptions and then present your conclusions as truth, but it is important to remember that there are 4 real people here and each and everyone is struggling to a greater or lesser extent with the fallout of Daruma’s demise.

And to the casual observer, be aware that there are people with ulterior motives posting half, bent and non-truths regarding this situation, Daruma, Nightfall, SLA and the creators. Its sad, but it happens.

Have KS backers lost their pledge? No.
Are the current Nighfall team working like billy-o to fulfil it? Yes.

Mark
Managing Director – Word Forge Games
Director – Nightfall Games”

Now I should point out that 40 backers have now received their pledge already and around 50 will in the next few weeks. We will have also fulfilled the ‘Cannibal Pre-order’ in the same timescale.

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 2]

Thanks for taking the time to present the “other side of the story”. I still find that generally the truth lies somewhere between the two versions of events (Daruma’s having been posted to then subsequently deleted from Facebook).

It does sound like quite an acrimonious split between the directors of Daruma (hence I don’t necessarily believe either story outright).
For example while the Kickstarter states that Cannibal Sector 1 was a partnership between Nightfall Games and Daruma we can see from companies house that isn’t the case from a legal stand point.

Daruma Productionwas founded in August 2016 by 4 people, two of which were associated with Nightfall Games (I use the term associated deliberately).
Nightfall Games was founded in 2018 by two people who are now formerly of Daruma Productions. There is no record of any company by that name prior to Feb 2018 and so at the time, the two individuals who founded Nightfall Games Ltd were presumably the owners of a brand or a trademark or such. They were associated with the Nightfall Games brand.

So Daruma was not in partnership with Nightfall Games, Daruma WAS the partnership; a partnership between the Nightfall Games people and two others. I also find it interesting that the two people associated with Nightfall Games decided to incorporate in February 2018 when up until that point they had not felt any need to register as a business, then resign from Daruma in April and then announce a new partnership with Word Forge Games in June subsequently terminating Daruma’s license to use the brand and IP. It’s almost like, depsite not being in charge of money, that they somehow knew it was about to go belly up and decided to distance themseves from Daruma Productions in order to protect the kickstarter. Now, I can’t necessarily fault anyone for protecting the Kickstarter and ensuring that backers got their goods; at no point have I said that is a bad thing. However I don’t believe for one second that the directors who resigned didn’t know that the project had failed, or at least that Daruma Productions would be unable to complete it. I also reject the idea that the Nightfall Games people had no control or say over the way cash was spent. I also disagree that the Nighfall people bear less or no responsibility for the failure on account of being “non executive directors”. They were directors with an equal share of the company from the outset. How Daruma decided to apportion roles and responsibilities for work is largely irrelevant, as directors they all bear responsibility for the direction of the company – clue is in the name. It doesn’t matter whether they were executive or non executive. If we were to believe everyone, then the person left at Daruma claims not to have known about the problems (their statement said as much), Word Forge are claiming that the Nightfall people didn’t know (or at least had no control) which really does beg the (rhetorical) question who exactly did know what was going on? Mind you, this would explain why the project failed if nobody knows what was going on. So it does seem that, while people may have acted to protect a kickstarter, they have shafted someone by leaving them with a company that is now being liquidated.

So my own view, and I freely admit this is speculation, is that probably everyone involved knew, to an extent, what was going on but that they disagreed on how to resolve the situation and two people decided to act pre-emptively by resigning and taking their brand with them, leaving one (understandably pissed off) person to sort the mess out. Without speculating on peoples’ motives for the actions taken, I think there’s far too much evidence to suggest that anyone involved with Daruma was unaware of the problems they were facing and that they were probably aware at least 6 months before the announcement of the partnership with WFG.

The best advice for all parties (Nightfall, WFG and Daruma), at this point, would actually be to make no comments at all on the liquidation of Daruma or the events leading up to it and comment only on the kickstarter delivery

[wfgdrmrParticipant 400xp 2]

Thanks for taking the time to ‘conjecture’ and ‘speculate’ onlyonepinman.

As you say, the proof will be in the events of the next few weeks/months/years as the legal dust settles and the liquidation completes. Likely the general public will never know the full story, although those able to attend the liquidation summit will have a better idea.

All I know is that from the evidence I have seen before, during and after Word Forge Games became involved, and what each individual has done to make this KS happen since, there is no ambiguity, and I have no question as to where the money went and who was responsible for its spending – evidence is there and has been shared with the appropriate authorities.

You will notice, for example, that no publication has ever been rescinded by the NFG or WFG team in relation to this situation, whereas it clearly has from Marc Wallace. Should the rescinded statement be considered in making one’s POV? After all the person making it no longer stands by it.

 

[panzerkaput 33942xp 0]

I am sorry @wfgdrmr I am not in anyway inferring a link between Hysterical Games and Word Forge Games, just simply the number of games backed by well meaning games companies and then going belly up.

As for this, I am chuffed that the Kickstarter is happening, especially as it could of simply been left to die like the dodo. Instead you have taken the bull by the horns and fulfil something that frank was dead and buried in my eyes. I personally thank you for doing this and I hope that it proves to be a success of a game.

I have moaned about Durama in the past and thats the past, whatever has happens thats still the past and its the future of this game that interests me.

[wfgdrmrParticipant 400xp 1]

Panzerkaput. You will have received note of shipping For this KS and Cannibal preorder. So one of the 4 fails can be scratched off your list and I am sure that Mr Blease is doing all he can to fulfil the Hysterical 2. I can’t comment on the 4th, but sorry to read that there is one

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 1]

Thanks for taking the time to ‘conjecture’ and ‘speculate’ onlyonepinman

I started writing a lengthy reply. However I think I can probably just reduce it to this.

I have read the response several times and I just can’t really see a way to read it that isn’t sarcastic and the tone of it sort of proves my point. The best thing all parties could do would be to focus only on the product and refrain from commenting on the liquidation process or events leading to it. Not only does doing so tend to fuel speculation but whatever you say and the manner in which you say it reflects on your company and when emotions run high we’re more prone to saying things we might not otherwise say.

For what it’s worth, I was making a genuine statement of thanks for telling us the other side of the story and not a sarcastic comment intended to imply everything you said was lies.

[tankkommanderParticipant 6413xp 1]

Great thank you Tankkommander for that proof of my point.

LOL

The points are…

1) We have not seen proof as to level of control the Nightfall folks had as ‘directors’ of Daruma.

2) Nightfall directors jumped ship just before Daruma went under…so it looks like they knew the writing was on the wall.

3) Even as non-executive directors they would have had a responsibility to ensure the company was run properly and that the KS funds were being spent properly.

4) How much KS money did the Nightfall folks get paid/take from Daruma?

 

[tankkommanderParticipant 6413xp 0]

3. A number of individuals over the years have had a beef with Nightfall (for various reasons) and have therefore reason to chuck shit…this is easy to do from behind a keyboard and pseudonym.

I have no ‘beef’ with Nightfall folks. Back in the day I was a big fan of the RPG, heavily involved in the online forums (various versions over the years), was there pre and post the WoTC culling, and even helped organise SLAcon 🙂

 

[panzerkaput 33942xp 1]

@wfgdrmr yes you are right and I am chuffed.

[wfgdrmrParticipant 400xp 1]

Firstly, onlyonepinman, I was not being sarcastic, you yourself said your statement was conjecture and speculation – hence why I gave those words inverted commas. I thank you for your advice, but am not going to silence myself, I/we have a duty to inform our backers on the progress of the fulfilment and when asked a question, or a statement is made which is incorrect or a bending of a truth (not suggesting you have done this by the way) I am not prepared to let that stand.

 

Secondly, Tankkommander,

1. Correct and where would such proof from any company come?

2. 3 directors have resigned (2 are your much maligned Nightfall ones and one is the brother of the remaining director). Technically Daruma is still in existence and the 3 left over 8 months ago. All3 are still share holders. The public does not know the reason for the resignations and your conclusion for it is conjecture.

3. Correct, but have you considered that maybe they were only informed of a issue once it had happened and have you considered when they knew it was too late to fix in the way you (and I am sure they) would feel more appropriate? Or they tried eg paying for books to be printed that were not part of the KS, but it was too late? They therefore had one option left…hence where we are.

4. One of them nothing – infact he paid for all the book printing while Daruma were in charge and was never reimbursed.  The other around £5k I believe over an 8 month period in 2016, but was promised a real wage that did not materialise.

5. Your second comment regarding having no beef. I have not suggested in my comment you quoted that you specifically have, my statement is that there are people who do.

I think it is important to remember this post was made to state the KS was dead. Evidence shows that Nightfall have ensured this is not the case and as I said above I will continue to post development and progress. If a new person comes a long and finds this post, then they will automatically believe it is true, if we are lucky enough that they read it I need and want to ensure they know it isn’t dead. That is why I post.

 

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 1]

@wfgdrmr I am sorry but I really can’t think of an alternative interpretation of the words “thanks  for taking the time to conjecture and speculate”, quotes or not.  If someone said the words in a face to face conversation, it would always come off as sarcastic.  I really can’t think of a way that it could be said in this context without that being the case.

Also, while you do have a duty of sorts to maintain communications with Kickstarter backers when it comes to commenting on the failure of Daruma I would suggest that regardless of whether you feel a statement is false or truth is being bent from a company stand point it is still far better to say nothing – this applies equally to all parties not just yourself. The people to whom you speak have no reason to trust or believe what you say and every reason to treat it as biased at best lies at worst. You cannot, in all probability, provide evidence to back up anything you say due to the ongoing legal activities surrounding the liquidation of Daruma – even if you wanted to do so (which if it were me I would not). And so you are left in a position where all you are doing is arguing the toss with people you can’t ever convince, engaging in finger Pointing and posting in a manner likely to turn people off buying your products or backing future Kickstarters. Whilst I appreciate you giving your version of events, the best thing you could have done is to simply state that you are not in a position to and therefore will not comment on, the Daruma situation and are focused on working with Nightfall Games to deliver the Kickstarter. You might, quite rightly, argue that other people are arguing about it and saying things you disagree with and while that’s true, those people are unlikely to be ambassadors for their brand or company and so expressing their opinion or engaging in conjecture and speculation isn’t likely to be a problem. As a representative of Word Forge, your views and the way you express them can have an effect on how people view your business.

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 1]

I think it’s also fair to say that yes, we have considered that the two directors from Nightfall weren’t aware that there was a problem. But the other guy at Daruma has also said the same. And so we are left with a problem – who do we believe? We can either:

1. pick a side (Nightfall/WFG or Daruma)
2. believe that EVERYONE knew
3. believe that NOBODY knew.

Because they’re the three possibilities. I think most people, in the absence of evidence, are tending towards the middle one rather than picking a side or claiming utter incompetence (which is what number 3 would entail).

[wfgdrmrParticipant 400xp 2]

Anyhow!

For anyone coming along to this page now… the KS is not dead and is being fulfilled.

[wfgdrmrParticipant 400xp 2]

All Cannibal preorders and 86 KS are now picked packed and shipped (minus the A4 Rulebook).

rest will be shipped when the A4 is ready or if pledgers choose to split ship

 

 

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