Show us zee papers.. Passports of your not coming in ever….

[collins 16358xp 4]

yes.

Both dangerous individuals who held on a pedestal by people who are tragically ill-informed.

[zorg 18801xp 2]

That’s the type of thing they did in medieval times like the witch’s. It’s one thing disagreeing with thing’s but threatening people’s lives is way out of order considering it’s doctors and nurses that have to deal with sick an dieng on a daily basis.

[warhammergrimace 13766xp 6]

[danlee 22443xp 2]

I saw an interesting interview a couple of days ago with one of the behavioural scientists on SAGE (that’s the scientific advisory group that advise the UK government). His analogy is that COVID is like driving cars. When cars became popular a small proportion of drivers would have severe or even fatal crashes which not only cause harm but had an economic cost in terms or repairing damage to roads and property (analogous to people catching COVID).

 

The response was not to say “oh well, we need to get around, so lets allow everyone to drive as they see fit.” Instead over the years governments have built up a whole range of risk management strategies such as the highway code, speed limits, better road and junction designs, mandated car safety features, driving licenses, etc. These have all reduced the risk of car crashes and increased their survivability.

 

SAGE’s advice to the UK government regarding COVID was the same. In order to “live with COVID” we would need to have a whole range of risk management strategies to help reduce the risk. It seems the UK government largely ignored the advice, but that’s a slightly different issue.

 

Here’s a link to the interview for anybody interested in seeing it themselves: https://youtu.be/BlEjNqQStg0

[zorg 18801xp 0]

I Got Covid – As Pandemic’s Gates Open – YouTube  this version works. @danlee

[danlee 22443xp 1]

Thanks @zorg. The link in my post works for me, but I guess it wasn’t working for others.

[neal5x5 1370xp 1]

There needs to be some kind of reasonable waiver to the passport for people that cannot get vaccinated but do not represent a threat. My wife falls into that category.

She is a registered nurse and during the quarantine she continued to work, putting her life in danger despite a history of respiratory illness because she loves her patients and feels that she had a duty to serve (she’s the bravest person I know).  All was well until December 2020 when the one and only outbreak at her facility felled half the staff and two thirds the patients. She got Covid (as did myself and our two kids) and was hospitalized, suffering permanent lung damage. She now requires oxygen 24/7 and has a portable oxygen compressor. Despite this disability, she has returned to work as a nurse because it’s what she loves to do.

However, she has not gotten the vaccine because her doctors have warned her against doing so because it puts her at risk of respiratory complications, which could very well kill her. She has had Covid and recovered and therefore has the antibodies and cannot be a carrier or transmitter of the disease and her presence puts no one else at risk. Despite these biological realities, she would be denied entry to a venue because she does not have a passport. (Myself and the kids did receive the vaccine despite having had Covid.)

While I recognize that she is a special case, it’s the special cases that proves the value of the rule and requires a measure of reason when enforcing the rule.

[doctoretherParticipant 9166xp 2]

@neal5x5 I would hope any reasonable covid passport scheme in place it there to prove people who should, have had the vaccine, while also proving for those who can’t have it, are still permitted to enter.

Of course this all assumes we don’t get idiots trying to claim exemption when they have no medical issue not to be vaccinated.

Also the whole point of the vaccine passport system is so that at a event/location, everyone who should be vaccinated is so, so that those with a legitmate reason not to be, can attend safe in the knowledge that statistically speaking they should be safe at the event.

[collins 16358xp 1]

@neal5x5 one of the questions/requirements for getting a covid passport is having had a positive PCR test within X months so you might find that your wife falls into that category already. the longevity on it however is another question.

[tankkommanderParticipant 6423xp 3]

Starting to see more folks in the shops choosing not to wear masks. As a former shop worker this makes me sad. Shoppers are in and out in 20 minutes, but those workers are in the shop all day. So if we are relying on the ‘good old fashioned common sense’ of the public to do the right thing we are screwed.

Buy then again for anyone who sees the everyday examples of selfishness from a significant minority of our fellow humans this really comes as no surprise.

[collins 16358xp 2]

Common sense is not commonly accessible.

[warhammergrimace 13766xp 1]

I noticed there were more people choosing not to wear masks at the weekend. Yet, yesterday when I went to shops it was pretty much like it was last week.

[osbad 4279xp 0]

OK.  Case numbers in the UK are comfortably below the most optimistic predictions of SAGE models, as are hospital admissions and deaths.  It is time for us all as a nation to realise that while it is sensible to prepare for the worst case scenario as it is possible, but it is more sensible to expect the worst case situation not to be likely.

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/08/03/have-1200-experts-ever-been-proved-wrong-so-quickly/

Personally I think the doom-mongering and over-the-top predictions of death and destruction should all just stop now, and the press and “experts” of all persuasions take a long hard look at the messages they are putting out.

Right now out of the 10,000 on average deaths per week in the UK, Covid represented 3.4% last week.  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/latest

Unless there is a new variant coming along, this is it now.  We are done with Covid.  It is now background noise.  Something to be aware of but not overly frightened of.

Last week I was in a horrendous car accident.  A lorry sideswiped me off the motorway and wrote off my car.  Fortunately other than mild whiplash I am OK, but it could easily have been fatal.  Driving to and from work is by far and away more dangerous than covid to me personally.  But if I lived my life avoiding driving altogether that would clearly be stupid.  I just have to assess the risk, take reasonable precautions, (like wearing a seatbelt) and get on with it.

Similarly now, with Covid, its a case of taking reasonable precautions and getting on with it – for me measures that severely restrict liberty of the uninfected, and measures that seriously harm enjoyment for the uninfected are not sustainable or realistic in the long term and the time has come now to drop them.

I respect others’ opinions on where we draw the line, but for me, the level of risk posed by covid no way justifies the levels of restrictions on civil liberties being proposed by some.  And the rather (now) transparent attempts from some quarters to scare the populace in order to drive clicks and views on news websites and to promote certain scientific careers need to be called out and balanced in the light of what is really happening, rather than on the worst-case scenarios of mathematical modelling based on assumptions that have been proven now to be inaccurate.

Sorry to flog this old horse. but I do think some of the scary numbers that were being bandied about in the news media (200,000 cases, etc., etc) need to be called out and put to bed as the extreme predictions they were, so that we can have a rational view on the subject the next time it comes up.  We can’t live our lives avoiding all risk all the time.  That’s not “life” its just existing and its inhuman.

[midnightblueParticipant 1300xp 1]

I think we might be at our worst case here in the States right now…at least in many states.  And the worst of it was definitely avoidable.  🙁

[warhammergrimace 13766xp 3]

One of the reasons why case numbers are lower in the UK is testing is down by 15-20%.  Which correlates with the drop in positive cases.

Until cases numbers globally have retracted significantly we should still treat it with caution. The reason being whilst it’s still active the virus has every chance to mutate into a more dangerous variant.

China is now experiencing a problem with the Delta variant spreading.

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