Please Change my Mind and Point of View

[panzerkaput 33943xp 6]

I have something I would like to say and it is actually starting to get to me.  I like the OTT Forums and Discord and actually the majority of people that use it are is general, nice, urban and tolerant of others views, which it is the way it should be, but I have noticed that there is a slow creep of intolerance that is sweeping through leading to play ground politics, I don’t like Star Wars so no one can like likes, toys, prams, toys thrown all over the place, just for example.

The good thing I love about OTT is its broad church and appeal and not everyone wants to play the same games or even be interested it is, I mean I dislike 40K as the rules suck, in my opinion but the background and models are very nice, if not to my taste. So, what is the point to this? Well, I think it is quite simple and that is we all need to be more tolerance others views, yes rich coming from me, and if someone wants to discuss something that you have no interest it, like Star Wars for instance, then let those that are interested talk about it and let them have the conversation. It is not about excluding people but rather encompassing people.

We used to be very good at this but now not so. So, lets get back to being gamers and adults and get along together again.

This is just my opinion and if you think I got it wrong please tell me so and change my mind.

[flatbattery 8265xp 3]

Airing strong opinions has been a staple of the internet since the first chat rooms I imagine, so it’s inevitable that it would find its way to our hobby, especially considering it’s increasing popularity in recent times.

Sadly, I find it easier to not get involved as much as possible, and I’ve been happier for it. Solves the issue for me, but I’m aware that it does nothing to establish a community.

Until there is a universal solution I can see it getting worse, but while investors in the likes of Twitter and Facebook are earning vast sums on the back of conflict and misery, I don’t see it happening any time soon.

[oriskany 60771xp 6]

I’ve been writing for the better part of ninety minutes, @panzerkaput, and every draft comes out angrier than the one before.

I respect you as a fellow artist and designer, but honestly I cannot possibly disagree more strongly with literally every word in your post, the tone most of all.  Every time I try to draft a calm, coherent reply, I wind up with another flame war bomb.

So I’m leaving it alone, and wish you the best of luck in the future.

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 4]

I don’t see it so much on the forums but then again I don’t really see much of anything in the forums these days.

I think comments on articles can sometimes get a bit argumentative, but that’s always been the case – from day 1.  I think you just have to remember that written media is quite dry and quite a lot is lost with the absence of intonation, inflection and body language.  I generally err on the side of caution and unless something is very obviously and openly hostile, I just assume they weren’t trying to be offensive or insulting.  The alternative is to be angry about everything.

I don’t really know what was going on in the discord last night – it was my first time in the discord so I don’t really have a frame of reference by which to judge and I joined a little late so I kind of missed the start.  There were definitely some tech issues and I think that was causing a lot of frustrations so again, I was just trying to ignore that and appreciate everyone giving their time to take part.

I think I am playing devil’s advocate.  While I agree that a little tolerance on everyone’s part would go a long way, that tolerance can be applied in two ways.  First in how we speak/write but also in how we read/listen, we tend to focus quite heavily on the former but often ignore that latter.  You don’t always have to reply, you can just let things slide.

Sure, the odd argument happens but that’s just part of the human experience especially when you are dealing with people who are passionate about something.  I think it’s not so important to try and avoid all argument/disagreement, it’s about how we react and behave when it happens.  Generally speaking the BoW community is not a toxic community.  There have been isolated occasions when it has probably gotten toxic, I certainly won’t deny that but fortunately these incidents have been few and far between.   I have been on the receiving end of some fairly toxic comments and, whilst I am certain I never intentially set out to be insulting or toxic, I am sure people have felt like they have been on the receiving end of it from me (hopefully I am now older, wiser and calmer) and it’s horrible when it happens.  However it’s also been quite a long time since I have seen it happen so in that sense the community has probably improved in that regard.  Sadly it’s also true that the community has lost members over those incidents and having that knowledge has definitely caused me to reassess how I approach online communities.

[panzerkaput 33943xp 0]

I dont see OTT as being a toxic community far from it but I just noticed that people have become more intolerant than others, or maybe it is just me reading something into what is not there. That was I have written the post as the question is more about is it me or is it something else. If my perception is off then I need to look at myself but if it is not then its a question about how to cope or ignore it.

 

 

[panzerkaput 33943xp 0]

I have no intention of starting for getting involved into a flame war as thats not the point and if I have upset you @orkinsany that is not my point either. This is about one or two people but it is about a community and my perception of it. If my perception is wrong, I hope it is, and I am sure it is, then the issue is with me and I need to change that in myself. But if you are telling me that there is no issue like what i have send that thank you and I need to evaluate.

Thanks for your reply

 

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 3]

I think there have been (and still remain) users who I personally consider to be intolerant and honestly I am 100% certain there are users who think the same of me.  However wouldn’t say I am seeing an increase in that sort of attitude, granted your mileage may vary.

[sundancer 42972xp 6]

The following text is meant generally. It’s not targeted at anybody so please bear that in mind while reading. Thank you.

Well, it is in the nature of the internet that sooner or later people “meet” that don’t get along. There is no harm in it and it’s not a bad thing. Generally at least. What gets to me is when people start making a fuss about things that are not worth it. You don’t like “Gamesystem X” or “Universe C”? Fine. Run along and come back in when the subject is to your liking. It is impossible to please everybody all the time at any point. OTT has a bootcamp for “Gamesystem X” and you don’t like that? Please come back after the weekend when other topics will be front and centre again. You don’t like people talking on the weekender/XLBS/CoG Radio about “Universe X”? Skip the part in the video, mute the channel or do something different.

But don’t bitch and moan about it. You are not alone in this world and certainly not in this community. There will be times where you will fell happy as a pig again when your favourites are talked about and others will not like that content. BUT THEY WILL NOT BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT.

My late grandmother (and my mother) used to say: If you don’t have anything nice to say: say nothing. So if you don’t like what is presented to you: DON’T BITCH AND MOAN!

And here is the kicker: if you have constructive criticism and you can formulate it  in a polite way then you can make your voice heard! Example: when we talk on the voice chat on Wednesdays when Warren is not making his radio show and we get to off topic or stay on something for too long I’m the first to go “mates… please back to topic”.

So, everybody, take a step back from  the keyboards. Get a brew, a drink and maybe a snickers. Take a deep breath and relax. And next time a topic isn’t to your liking try imagining how you would like people to behave on topic you love.

Sidenote: much Kudos to the @team here for the community work they do. Moderating any kind of community is difficult at the best of times and an annoying pain in the rear at the worst. I will now get back to work, peek into discord and hope for the best.

PS: If anybody ever is not happy by the content I create; be it on twitch, here or on discord, you are hereby encouraged to drop me a line, DM me or just contact me in any way. We are all adults here and should be able to talk to one another like adults.

[panzerkaput 33943xp 2]

Thank you @sundancer that is echoing what I am trying to say, poorly. Its about polite discourse

[redscopeParticipant 2718xp 2]

What I see often in the community is the level of expectations from companies have become unreasonable. In part that is due to the world we live in. With social media and on demand videos, instance reply from e-mails. We have come to expect a level of service which is difficult to match and often people are less tolerance towards those companies.

This in turn causes some level of conflict in the community between those with perhaps a bit more understanding or tolerance towards those issue.

The case in point if I see a post on a games workshop issue everyone and his dog will have a say and 90% of people will complain about them even tho most of them admit they have no interest in product. That alone is not a problem but when you look at other companies and posts on them they hardly get talked about.

To me this “Drama Alert” situation people seem to almost revel in the issues or be it they dont occur very often. A certain under tone of snobby does exists and often it is taken and given in good humour but it can be wearing at times. To see people attacking these groups with the levels they do and the stupid comments saying “I am done with this company” Like kids throwing toys out of prams.

Personally I am always in a sense of wonder for how much choice we have in this hobby. We have so many amazing companies with so many amazing people working in them. Lets be clear it is people like you and I that work in this places. The are not “Evil” or “out to get you” they are staffed by people that love the hobby just as you do.

While I wish people would be a little more tolerance or understanding, sadly I think it just the way the world is. It would be stupid of me to say otherwise as often I get involved as well. It is far to easy to attach to the social media and see something you disagree with.

However i will say the small group of people that seem to have an almost personal agenda against certain companies or sections of the community perhaps need to take a step back and perhaps consider viewing the situation from the otherside once in a while.

[jamescutts 6924xp 3]

I’ve had a few attempts too at replying to this, after a few I was going to leave it but I think its worth adding to the topic and I’ve made it a aim to contribute more.

I’m not sure intolerance is exactly the right word though I do understand the point and have a few similar concerns. I think the wider Beasts of War community is actually one of the better ones and does a great job of being a friendly place.

The forums to some extent have slightly suffered recently (in my view) as there’s tended to be a lot of in depth divisive topics posted, there’s nothing wrong with that but personally I’d love to see more positivity in the topics. There are or have been a few cases where I feel a few people have been intolerant but I think quite a lot of it is showing respect and understanding that people have differences in opinion and difference perceptions that lead them to interpret things in different ways, that doesnt mean either side is right or wrong.

Much the same applies to discord, it also suffers from another issue in that its much easier to say what’s in your head rather than consider it. It can also be hard to judge when to say something and when not too, in retrospect that can be obvious but at the time it can be hard. I’ll hold my hands up and say yes sometimes I say somethings that would be best left unsaid, that was intended at the as a subtle hint to maybe change topic and afterword’s become aware that could be interpreted and perceived as being intolerant. It wasn’t particularly intended to be having a bitch and moan about it just perhaps attempting to give feedback on the spot and maybe could have been more politely delivery but again above issue of the trap of instant chat.

The “star wars” thing I think sort of raised another point I think is related, I like star wars, I have a few legion minis, I don’t mind listening in to people talk about it. Its hard for some to join as a live event if they want to partake in it, I do get a bit annoyed when  it’s the same lenghty topic over and over again for the first hour, especially where there already existing community discussion mediums on it and I believe sometimes may make comments as mentioned above, intended to be hints and feedback to change topic but which might be seen as intolerance, again it can be hard to judge when to say something and in what context.

The point I was leading into was that our community is and should remain mindful to be respectful of our various members, there differing interests, different commitments, and even geographic locations and maybe a little extra tolerance of the later three.

Despite enjoying the pirate/unofficial cog radio I was aware that on a few cases I possibly contributed more that I should to a specific conversation or steered the conversation maybe too much where I wanted. In the same view I’m equally worried that discussions can very easy, especially in Official CoG Radio be heavily taken over by a small number of individuals and steered to their topics, interests and views, similar to some forum topics except its much harder to join into that conversation and in some cases impossible to contribute with it being an actual conversation over voice chat with strong personalities who dont really give people a change to get a word in. That certainly isn’t the case every time but its certainly happened several times and I can understand that furstration.

I mean no offence to anyone in that last paragraph, I hope it can possibly be seen as some polite criticism in the way that the chat is moderated.

In summary I don’t think our community is becoming more intolerant at least I hope not, I just think its become slightly easier to ether say something that may be interpreted or perceived as such but wasn’t intended to be. Plus I think people at still naturally a little cranky for the world being pretty screwed up to some extent and having a little tolerance of that helps too.

[panzerkaput 33943xp 3]

Thanks there James and I think you hit the nail on the head there when you said

I don’t think our community is becoming more intolerant at least I hope not, I just think its become slightly easier to ether say something that may be interpreted or perceived as such but wasn’t intended to be. Plus I think people at still naturally a little cranky for the world being pretty screwed up to some extent and having a little tolerance of that helps too.

I think it is the world we life in, and intolerance might not be the right word, but sometimes the reaction is out of all proportions. I would like adult responses and understanding or we will going not going to talk about this because or that because and that worries me.

[panzerkaput 33943xp 3]

By the way everyone when I said Star Wars, it is an example of a game , it could of been 40K, Barons War or whatever.

[ninjillyParticipant 11673xp 3]

I dont see OTT as being a toxic community far from it but I just noticed that people have become more intolerant than others, or maybe it is just me reading something into what is not there. That was I have written the post as the question is more about is it me or is it something else. If my perception is off then I need to look at myself but if it is not then its a question about how to cope or ignore it.

Cetainly isn’t just you @panzerkaput – I’ve seen much the same, esp over the last year. I keep reminding myself that a lot of people are going through rough times etc and hope that it is a temporary thing not a culture shift. Sadly I don’t have the energy to put up with it most days so I just stay away. Ignoring it only gets you so far.

[laughingboy 20728xp 2]

Does anyone have actual examples/evidence of toxic behaviour, I honestly cant say I personally have seen any. I think there are some strong characters here and thus they are the ones always doing the talking, perhaps people see that as “the way” and what they say is “cool” or “right” and thus don’t like to disagree or seem out of the click.

It is not uncommon but if I am honest I could not give an actual example of toxic behaviour.

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