Overpriced GW

[poosh 4207xp 1]

I take it this debate was spurred on by the new HH set.

GW have a history of “underselling” HH plastics. Though you’ll note once the two HH box (Betrayal and Burning) sets were retired, all of the HH plastics were priced at extortionate prices (£40 for terminators? £30 for 10 marines?).

The HH Darkness box set is probably worth £220-£230 + whatever the rulebook costs (a lot) if you priced all the kits at what they should “realistically” be (rather than GW’s current retail prices which would mean the “value” of the models in the box would be around £377). Note the Beakie marines are not a traditional GW kit, they’re missing most of the weapon options and don’t have a single heavy or special weapon, and no this isn’t because “it’s HH” – the MK3 and 4 kits all had these extras.

So with this boxed set you’re getting the rulebook and the tank for free basically. It’s a fine deal. In this context, the models are priced reasonably I suggest (assuming you think £45 is a reasonable price for this specific tank).

Putting aside that GW obv. want 40K players to buy these models, having realised their Primaris Space Marines aren’t doing what they thought they would (thus why you’re getting classic MK6 Beakie marines instead of HERESY MK 5 ARMOUR marines, MK6 do not belong in the HH in serious numbers other than assault on Terra), GW filled that box with lots of nice new beakies intentionally with no special weapon options so you will buy their £26 weapon upgrade packs… Once you buy a £26 special weapon pack you’ve got 60 weapons… you don’t want to waste £26 now do you? So you better buy 60 marines….. you see what they did there? Sunk cost fallacy.

That being said, as annoying as it is to have marines in boxes of 20, the MK3 and MK4 box sets are FANTASTIC and mean the price of a Space Marine 10 man tactical squad is around £23.75 which I think is entirely reasonable.

[poosh 4207xp 1]

“The infinity games models are more expensive”

Are you sure? I just checked the price and the average UK solo Infinity model is about £12 for one metal model which is the same for GW on average too.

[onlyonepinman 18063xp 1]

Infinity miniatures are not a great comparison, broadly speaking.  You could just compare a metal model to a metal model but it’s a bit more complicated than that.  Prices for any company are driven many factors, amount of predicted sales being one of them.  Essentially all of Infinity’s Miniatures are character models and you only need a handful to play the game.  Thus if you take something like the basic troop types (PanO fusiliers for example) their closest equivalent in 40k would be Guardsmen.  The fusiliers currently weigh in at €40 for 4.  That might seem cheap on a per model basis compared to metal models from Games Workshop but it’s very expensive compared to three plastic guardsmen.  So it really depends on how you dress it up and what you want to compare to really.  So I would generally just go with a shortened summary that  simply says that they’re generally more expensive per miniature but cheaper as a hobby overall because you need less of them.

[jamescutts 6929xp 3]

This discussion seems to be one one that continually comes up every few years, shame the initial topic is missing.

It’s incredibly hard to define overpriced in this context, it very much depends on how you value something, your interests, and what brings you enjoyment. Trying to do like-for-like comparisons or cost per miniature is a futile exercise for this as theres so many variables to account for.

This hobby is a luxury, it costs money and companies exist to make money, in general terms if you can’t afford something or don’t want to pay the asked price for it then it is overpriced but that is specific to every individual.

Personally, I don’t buy GW products (except LotR), while I find the sculpting generally good, I have no interest in their game systems and for me, they are “overpriced” but I have no issue with people playing or buying their games.

[onlyonepinman 18063xp 2]

@jamescutts you have hit the nail on the head.  Something is only overpriced “to you”.  Other people’s mileage can and will vary.

[poosh 4207xp 1]

Comparing like for like is comparatively … if you will.. easy to do. Pretending “you can’t compare like for like” or that it is difficult is something you have to intentionally go out of your way to do, to muddy the water.

The only legitimate reason for GW’s prices being so high that is difficult to gauge and compare is the fact that when you buy a GW product you’re paying for physical GW stores, the staff etc. This is all wrapped into the cost of a GW model, and all other companies do not have to worry about this issue.

This is something people always forget about GW stuff. This is the only variable that can’t be accounted for, and is impossible to gauge.

[limburger 21726xp 1]

@poosh ‘cept GW also operates at a scale/volume that no other company can compete with, which means that they can hide those additional costs across a bigger product range too …

The bigger problem is that for the kind of fictional settings that GW produces there are no real equivalents out there.
Even if you use alternative miniatures you still have to buy their rules and army lists.

There is no escaping GW if you want to play 40k/AoS, unless you also quit playing those games … and there’s the problem, because like Apple, Google and MS cutting that dependency is hard and it’s not something one does as easily because the convenience offered by GW easily outweighs the negatives for a lot of people even if they are aware of the alternatives.

OTOH … if I was in the market for a humanoid in powered armour or a human soldier with a futuristic weapon then the range of options is improved by the fact that I can pick an costly model (with crystal clear instructions) or an average model (without such features).

[zorg 18804xp 0]

Unless you have/can get an old copy of the game then you can go nuts with the models you have or want. ?

[limburger 21726xp 1]

@zorg true … and no one can stop you from playing any of the ancient versions either (thank [deity of choice]), unless you want to play in any ‘official tournament ™’

[zorg 18804xp 0]

But are they any good nowadays from what I’ve been reading they are more beardy than a mosk in Mecca @limburger ?

[limburger 21726xp 1]

@zorg I’d argue that the beardyness of tournament organisers depends on how welcoming they are for new players …

 

[zorg 18804xp 0]

Ooh it may just be disgruntled players venting then?

[onlyonepinman 18063xp 1]

@poosh stating that there are lots of complicated factors when trying to compare prices of Miniatures is not muddying the waters.  Are 10 Astra Militarum a fair comparison to 10 Space Marines?

So Let me overly simplify it for you then, seeing as nuance appears to be lost on you.

Comparing like for like IS a piece of piss.  Identifying what is like for like, not so much

Infinity and Citadel Miniatures are not like for like on any level beyond they are all Miniatures.

Wargames Atlantic Death Fields and Plastic Astra Militarum are like for like

If you can’t deal with nuance, the comparisons pretty much stop on that level which isn’t particularly useful.

[solarParticipant 2781xp 1]

Just to throw my tuppence into the ring, I have moaned mightily about GW over the years but I still give them money fairly consistently. I think the ultimate reason is that GW output is so prolific that sooner or later they will release sonething that appeals to me enough that I want to buy it. For example I do not like Primaris space marines AT ALL, but I do like the Horus Heresy marines and have spent a small fortune on them. I love GW Orcs (the older Warhammer ones and the new stuff) and have spent a small fortune on them too, but I do not like their new High Elves models in the slightest.

GW win I think based on a complicated package of factors of which “value” is not one. GW is not good value but if you like something they are doing it is not horrific enough in terms of cost that you cant push the button and buy.

In terms of GW having a bad attitude I am gathering that in more recent times that has significantly improved which for me personally now means I dont feel bad giving them my money, in the past I used to actively boycott them due to their behaviour.

TL;DR

IMO GW is expensive and is not good value, however their quality is high enough and their prices are low enough that noone should feel particularly guilty if buying their models over another companies whose prices may be lower

[limburger 21726xp 0]

yeah … assuming the GW style doesn’t turn you off completely they definitely produce so much that you will find something useful.

@onlyonepinman finding a like for like is kind of a personal matter too.
No amount of screaming is going to convinve an Apple fanboy that a generic chinese mp3 player is that same as his iPod …
The branding of a product is as much part of the (perceived) value as the actual product itself is.

So yes … those wargame atlantics would be ‘good enough’ as imperial guard for you, but there are certain aspects to both the models themselves as well as the presentation that may make the GW variant the ‘better’ product for people who want to field an Imperial Guard army (that is unless you want to play in GW sponsored40k tournaments and the rules demand that you don’t field a minimal percentage of GW products in your army … ).

// —

GW makes some morally and ethically questionable choices which can (and should) give people a reason to re-evaluate their ‘need’ for their products. The perceived value at retail is definitely the easiest of them.
However we should be aware that we know a lot of what GW does because they are the 5000 pound gorilla in the hobby and every thing they do gets scrutinized.

Is [nearest competitor] really a ‘good guy’ ? Or haven’t we found the skeletons in their closet ?
Superficially .. yes, their products are not as bad GW and some of  are attractive for those of us who don’t need officially licensed GW products for their army. Ideally we should apply equal level of scrutiny to their workplace ethics and practices instead of merely targeting GW for being the big hulking target that they are.

(and shouldn’t we blame the competition for being so lazy that they’d rather copy GW and pray on those unsatisfied with GW instead of inventing their own ?)

Anyways …  enough rambling from this ol’ man.
It sucks that GW could be soo much better and that they (apparently) aren’t even trying.
We shouldn’t blame people for buying their products, because we don’t always know why people did so.
Did they have any viable alternatives ?

All we can do is show people the alternatives that do exist so they can make their own choice that best fits both budget and other needs.

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