Midwinter Minis Historical Wargames are not popular because it has Nazi's

[somegeezer 18431xp 1]

Midwinter, as a 40k gamer is used to “everyone is the bad guy” but unaware it applies to every side in a war. However propaganda paints it nations go to war in self interest and little more. As has been mentioned the Brits in ww2 were no angels (Dresden was mentioned, I’d also consider Churchill’s response to the Bangladesh famine).

There’s also the question of tarring all Germans as Nazis. While there’s little question of the Waffen SS’s loyalties it’s not like the entire Wermacht were as hard-line. It’s said that the first victims of the Nazis were the German people.

War is never cut and dried and beyond thinking I don’t want to collect Waffen SS I’ve never felt the need to align to the ideology of my historical armies (ww2 Brits, dark age Welsh, soon to start 1980s USSR).

[wolfie65Participant 1238xp 1]

I’ve never had the impression that the presence of Germans (or National Socialists) in a game, book or movie made it somehow less popular, quite the opposite.

Now, the portrayal of them is quite another matter, much like the portrayal of sharks in Jaws – or just about anyone in every movie or TV show ever made. It’s a MOVIE…..

One notable exception would be Die Brücke (the bridge, 1959), probably the most realistic WWII movie ever made, anywhere, by anyone. A group of schoolboys decide to try to defend their little town in western Germany from the massively huge American tank army approaching. Honorable mention goes to Hunde, wollt ihr ewig leben (dogs, do you want to live forever), also released as Stalingrad.

For those of you who feel queasy about playing WWII Germans, maybe Benton Bradberry’s The Myth of German Villainy or Mad Dogs and Englishmen will change your mind. Also recommended: Thomas Goodrich’s Hellstorm and Summer 1945.

Take a gander at what Rudolf Heß tried to do and how he was received in Britain.

http://www.rarefilmsandmore.com have a huge selection of movies from the 1910’s-80s, most of them German, some of them subtitled, including a series of DVDs of Die Deutsche Wochenschau (weekly newsreels) 1939-45. You can contrast them with US newsreels from the same period, available from http://www.ihffilms.com.

Always keep in mind that history is written by the winners (naked Celts, ‘illiterate Barbarians’, Nero crazy, Napoleon short, etc.) and what that means. A good look at Dwight D. Eisenhower and how Germans were treated after the war might make you feel pretty queasy about playing Americans, just to name one example. Bombing campaigns directed squarely at civilian areas along the Rhine starting in 1940 doesn’t look good for the Brits.  Dresden (Hamburg, Würzburg, Pforzheim, etc……) have already been mentioned. Look into the French occupation of the Saarland after WWI, Polish actions during the 1930s, exactly WHY Germany ‘lost’ WWI……

The list goes on. And on…..

[warcoloursParticipant 438xp 0]

Especially late war, even in the SS things were not as clear cut as in early war. It is worth reading the memories of the german writer Günter Grass about him being conscripted in the SS at age 18 in 1945

[khusrauParticipant 1169xp 2]

Couple of fallacies in here, although I do think there is serious question. I just don’t want to go down the 1980s D’nD path of moral panic.

No 1. Lots of people play table top miniatures games that involve killing your opponents little metal/plastic/resin troops. Regardless of whether those are Space Marines, Stormtroopers,  or Storm Marines or Space Troopers, we represent extreme violence on the tabletop.

2. Playing a particular force doesn’t necessarily mean endorsing their POV. Using WW2 Germans or Confederates doesn’t mean gas ovens and slave ownership are on my agenda.

3. Never mind the Imperium or the Third Reich, how about Mongols, Crusaders, Romans, 17th Century Swedes, Vikings or any number of historical cultures/armies, for whom, rape, slavery, pillage and torture were accepted practices? This not to excuse Nazis who were particularly foul and evil, but there aren’t many armies who compare well to modern humanitarian standards. Anyone want to game My Lai? No, thought not.

4. Taste. I do own SS units. I play WW2 wargames, and Normandy, Arnhem and the Bulge saw them take lead roles. I thought long and hard about buying and painting the figures, but they were there. My regular German Heer units far outnumber them. I would not dream of wearing t-shirts, regalia or any other form of Nazi symbolism. We had an incident at one convention in Australia where I asked one attendee to leave due to the tasteless nature of his t-shirt. I have no wish to see that image of the hobby take root in our wider community.

Finally, any reliance on numbers from the WSS survey is deeply flawed. It’s largely self selecting in the same way any survey promoted by White Dwarf would be.

So sure, play ‘immoral’ forces on the tabletop, because that was what happened and we need (at least) two sides to play. But show me any sign of endorsing or wanting to mimic those guys, and you’ll never play me again.

[lloydKeymaster 17986xp 7]

Humm, don’t know, perhaps they are onto something.

Let’s take SAGA! for example, after a good game of Viking fun I’m well up for burning down Portrush (the next village over), but that would probably just improve the place 😉

And the more I’ve worked on my Kroot the more I’ve had the urge to eat people!

God only knows what I’ll be thinking when I get my German model train network up and running.

[somegeezer 18431xp 0]

The only force I can identify with are the anarchists of the Spanish Civil War. I’ll be burning everything else historical and looking for SCW opponents only. I’ll judge any I do find for being Fascist of course.

That or I’ll sack the lot and stick with the fictional fascist Ultramarines.

[piersParticipant 25489xp 6]

Click bait bollocks, is what that is…

I’ve played WW2 Germans for nearly 40 years, and I’m yet to invade Poland.

 

 

Yet…

[onlyonepinman 18064xp 3]

@piers a couple of pints of lager later…

[moonunitParticipant 4507xp 0]

@lloyd Dark.

[onlyonepinman 18064xp 0]

don’t know about anyone else, but most people I know who play Germans are all like “yeah, they had the coolest tanks”. And they’re right. They did

[onlyonepinman 18064xp 0]

@lloyd, I reckon after you get your German model railway up and running you will be considering making them run on time

[lloydKeymaster 17986xp 0]

I reckon after you get your German model railway up and running you will be considering making them run on time

Lol – now that’s a challange!

[elessar2590 18207xp 2]

He’s a little troll looking for money. A greedy little worm attacking an entire community because it will make them click his video.

He is literally advertising a game where you “play as the Nazi’s” in a video about how terrible and “immoral” wargamers are who play German armies. Anything for a bit of cash.

The best part is he shows that he put zero effort into anything because the woman had a US army and he painted his tank for the Eastern Front for a unit which didn’t fight the Western Allies. He had the option to do 21st Panzer with the transfers but no he saw the Swastika and wanted to try and be shocking or edgy or own the gamers or whatever.

Pro tip bro spend less time calling me a someone who “glorifies the (Nazi) regime” for owning a toy Hanomag and more time on Wikipedia looking at unit symbols so you can actually build an army.

[rickabod41Participant 9259xp 3]

I think the guy who runs Midwinter Minis is a dick anyway.

I think I posted about this before when he posted a video about “Not being affiliated with GW anymore because they didn’t send him free stuff”.

Then he did a super desperate video about inviting Henry Cavill to come on his channel.

Comes across as super entitled to me and basically is just in it for the money and not a real hobbyist at all,  and his latest offering (which I haven’t watched but you all have summarised above) just proves my point I think!

[frankeleeParticipant 1364xp 1]

Worrying about how playing toy minis may mean you’re a fascist, or mean you’re a anything, or have any moral relevance to real life definitely sounds like one of those symptoms of late stage social decadence that happens before the inevitable collapse. I don’t mean to disrespect anyone, but if you honestly take any such nonsense seriously, it is hard to respect you.

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