Kickstarter boycott.

[jamesedwardsParticipant 1101xp 1]

Honestly surprised that there is anything to unionise. I assumed Kickstarter was a couple of founders, half a dozen web developers, and a few undergraduate interns writing copy. What else do they do?

[elessar2590 18207xp 3]

@totsuzenheni it was only last year that the Supreme Court ruled that compulsory Union Membership (or dues but it’s essentially the same thing) for Public Sector Employees was Unconstitutional which might be what @commadorerob is referring to but Public and Private Unions are regulated differently. (Janus v. AFSCME)

The most cited example of Union’s messing with the economy is normally the Steel Workers Union in the 80’s who got the Government to put Tariffs on foreign imports of steel which saved their jobs but cost many more jobs in other industries who got hurt by the move. If you block cheap steel from coming in to the country then it helps the people who make steel but hurts the people who use steel as a component in things they make like Construction Companies or Ship Buildiers. @robert might be able to give you specifics.

As a general Rule if an article leaves out a key document that they reference it generally means there’s something in that document they don’t want you to see so here is the actual response letter courtesy of Vice.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a35jpg/heres-what-the-ceo-of-kickstarter-said-to-creators-about-firing-union-organizers

The article you posted claims two major things were stated in this letter.

1. Stood by its decision to fire the organizers, and would be dispatching its lawyers to fight their claims.

That’s literally the standard thing any organisation does when an employee files a wrongful dismissal. The workers filed complaints with the NLRB so unless Kickstarter wants to just outright admit to a multi million dollar unfair dismissal and violating labor laws then of course they will fight it.

2. Would not voluntarily recognize a union even if the vast majority of workers signed in support of one.

Of course they won’t because there’s a very clear process around creating a Union that involves a Secret Ballot to stop intimidation from both sides and Kickstarter has said they are happy for it to head down that route but they will not just take the potential Unions word for it that they have support. They also said they won’t try and stop a vote and if the vote passes they will work with them. It should also be noted that no request for either a vote or voluntary recognition has been made.

Also the Pro-Union side weren’t being above board either since they allegedly had managers involved in the process which is illegal.

As for Unions I believe you have a right to join one or not join one. I personally dislike the amount of political action they take and I wouldn’t be comfortable paying dues to a Union who could turn around and give that money to a politician or organisation that I would not want to give money too. A Union exists to provide better wages, better conditions and representation for it’s members not to advocate for Political Issues that have nothing to do with it’s members.

For example here in Australia in 2017 (after the country had gone completely into a death spiral) we had two Major Unions praise and Defend Venezuela calling any opposition to the Government and it’s policies Fascist Right Wingers, using Union time and money to craft a political statement that did nothing to improve the conditions or pay of their workers. That I have a big issue with.

[bigdave 3704xp 0]

@elessar2590 does the government demand an opt-in when it comes to political funds in Australian unions? Majority of unions in the UK are affiliated with the Labour Party, but members have to opt-in to campaign funds.

[ghent99 3589xp 0]

@totsuzenheni yes it happens all the time.  There was a heavy machinery manufacturer here in the states that declined a job they originally contracted on because the union workers refused to design the vehicle.  The client was someone they refused to work with even though there was no legal issue to the build.  It happens and it is unfortunate, the great thing is that unions also protect many workers.

 

This issue will hurt those they claim to help.

[templar007 52366xp 2]

The only thing I know about Unions in the USA is from my work experience here in Kansas.  In our state, Kansas is a ‘right to work state’.

 

Here is an overview of “right-to-work” laws in Kansas. In the simplest sense, state “right-to-work” laws prohibit unions and employers from requiring employees to be union members (or to pay membership dues) in order to obtain or stay on a job.

 

One of the reasons I love my state and continue to live here.  No overbearing laws that attempt to take away my right to make up my own mind on how I choose to live.

[ced1106Participant 6224xp 0]

> Honestly surprised that there is anything to unionise. I assumed Kickstarter was a couple of founders, half a dozen web developers, and a few undergraduate interns writing copy. What else do they do?

Yeah, that. Here in the US, unions are conventionally blue-collar organizations, in such things as car assembly. Unions are also in the public sector, “city employees, government workers, teachers and police”. I also don’t see KS as any other small white-collar company. I can’t really imagine how a union at KS will look compared to conventional ones in the US. If KS is a small company, the founders could just fire everyone and hire new people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States
https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-tech-companies-have-unions
https://www.inc.com/guides/2010/12/what-small-businesses-should-know-about-unions.html

> Do you have a link to that empirical evidence?

If you want a chart, go look at General Motor’s stock performance or Hostess over the last decade.

That’s not to say that in the US, tech companies have attempted to get cheaper workers, such as through contractors (avoids the cost of employee benefits) and HB-1 visas (overseas tech workers who will work for lower salary in return for a visa). Most tech companies I worked for had benefits like employee stock options, profit-sharing, etc. In other words, these companies provided benefits that a union would advocate for, anyway. This attempt to unionize may just be an attempt for higher salaries, better employee benefits, etc., which a small company would want to provide to stay competitive. If a web developer at KS was head-hunted by another company for higher pay, said web developer certainly wouldn’t need to be part of a union at KS.

[unclejimmyMember 9225xp 0]

Tell it like it is, brother! Bunch of wankers with delusions of power.

[totsuzenheniParticipant 5651xp 0]

I appreciate the link @elessar2590 and the other useful information and anecdotes from you all, though i don’t think anyone here is making much of a case for anything.

 

Are you referring to the boycotters, unionisers, or management staff @unclejimmy?

[timmothParticipant 697xp 0]

Indiegogo has been a better option for a while now anyway.

They charge half the fees that Kickstarter charges, and have more flexibility when it comes to getting enough ‘pledges’ in time for your deadline, which can be extended if necessary, and the project page can still be kept open as an ‘in-demand’ store after the time has expired…

[sundancer 42905xp 0]

@timmoth true but they are also way more open to scam as they support funding methods that take your money even if the goal is not met. And that’s the main reason for me not touching anything on indiegogo.

[ced1106Participant 6224xp 0]

(Reposted from Bones IV KS thread)

Most unions in the USA aren’t for small companies in tech. If you want a raise, profit sharing, benefits, etc., it’s not like a web developer can’t go look for another company. That’s quite different for true union members, particularly government. You can be the best teacher or postal worker in the area, but government services don’t have local competition. Non-government union employers also typically have few competitors in the same area and have either a monopoly or oligopoly on the market (eg. steel companies). While KS and IGG are the only two major crowdfunding players on the internet, they’re still competing against other small companies that use techies in web development.

EDIT: Oh, and I wouldn’t mind a pre-order site which guaranteed delivery or your money back. Amazon does this, but not for the projects seen on KS.

[bvandewalkerParticipant 2077xp 2]

Okay guys, there are two sorts of unions in this grim-dark world we live in.

The first is the “in house” union, they are solely attached to one company, sometimes to one branch of a company like a store, and are, normally, solely focused  on issues that company’s workers have. This is the “good” kind of union because they are not going actively kill the company and merely force the owners/top management  to be a little less greedy (which they honestly need sometimes), plus most of the time  outside politics are not a thing (or they shouldn’t be anyways). However like any human organization, the bigger an “in house” union gets the more trouble it can get into, and KS is a growing company so it is a concern.

The second sort of union is the political action union that focuses on a whole profession across multiple companies, the union also has multiple branches. This sort of union is normally as corrupt as the fluff for Nurgel demonettes: they are often about  union leader retirement funds more then helping workers (see CA teacher’s union), they often have outside agenda pushers (see CA teacher’s union), they don’t care if the company lives or dies (whats happening to CA schools cause of teacher’s union), and they are generally power mad (see CA teacher’s union). If you want hard empirical evidence of what trouble they can cause, one of the reasons WargamesFactory closed their American distribution center and no longer  sell stuff themselves is because of a nation wide dock workers union strike. The US ports were closed and this hurt WGF’s sales that quarter  bad enough the guys in Hong Kong  closed their US operations and now use Warlord  as their main distributor and that’s just what it did in our little community (probably hurt a lot of KS projects as well, and I don’t even want to know how many people lost their jobs and stores closed cause of that stunt). Point is that’s the “bad” sort of union.

Also as someone who’s grand mother became the leader of her union branch because the previous branch leader was a blatantly corrupt scumbag and as a resident of California,  (a state where the big unions, particularly gov worker unions like the teachers union, call the shots like a crime boss and all the adults know it), I don’t blame  KS for not wanting union involvement, they can become corrupt fast and easy like every other elective body organization out there. Plus if the would be union leaders were not forthcoming with  confirmation of support its a wise move to resist unionization, particularly since the company  in question has only 152 people to talk to, meaning it should have been easy to get majority signatures and its actually small enough the boss knows he has a problem with “the office environment”  when 5  of the employees complain about something like the coffee maker or Jeff staring at people’s butts.

https://www.kickstarter.com/team?ref=hello

 

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