Kickstarter boycott.

[totsuzenheniParticipant 5651xp 3]

Apparently Kickstarter is being boycotted, or effectively boycotted, by various creators and supporters because Kickstarter’s CEO refuses to recognise unions and has fired union organisers. Note that the word on the web is that Kickstarter employees and union organisers are asking that people don’t boycott yet, but people are starting to avoid Kickstarter anyway. I found out about this because Jenna Moran has suddenly started looking around for a different potential crowdfunding option for her new Glitch RPG. According to the Current Affairs article one Kickstarter creator (at least) writes they have lost support for their Kickstarter due to potential backers backing out in protest at Kickstarter’s anti union stance.

 

The Jenna Moran thread: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jenna-morans-upcoming-new-game-glitch.847467/page-13

In brief: https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/why-are-people-boycotting-kickstarter-1080290

Current Affairs’ longer article: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/09/kickstarter-to-workers-and-project-creators-drop-dead

[torros 23808xp 2]

I always knew deep down there was a good  reason not to back any kickstarters

[Anonymous 0xp 11]

Never joined a union, nor will I ever join an organisation that has been empirically shown to cause unemployment and slow economic growth and development.  Well done, Kickstarter, more reason to back a few projects!

[totsuzenheniParticipant 5651xp 3]

Do you have a link to that empirical evidence?

[sundancer 42905xp 1]

I’ve read about this just yesterday and am still very divided on this. Since I don’t work at KS and don’t know anybody that does it’s down to two parties claiming different sides.

I’ll guess we have to wait until one party or the other puts some hard facts on the table

[commodorerob 11076xp 1]

I think that this needs to be considered carefully. There are significant differences in how Unions work in the US and how they work in say the UK. As I understand it in the US where there is a Union in a work place the employee has to join the union. Whereas in the UK it’s always an personal decision.

[totsuzenheniParticipant 5651xp 1]

I just did a quick search on that issue @commodorerob.  According to this webpage: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter15-5.html “Workers have the right, under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), to refuse to join a union. However, some collective bargaining agreements — the contracts between the employer and the union — require a company to employ only union workers to do certain jobs.”

[ghent99 3589xp 2]

If any of these sites unionize and the union states they dont want a particular person or group using the site or they will strike what will happen then?  I dont have a problem with anyone deciding they wish to boycott a business.  If creator’s wish to be involved in the internal operations of the company then they can state their opinion.  If you dont like XYZ because they will or wont do ABC then it is your choice to do business with them.  I would have an issue if a company is forced to only allow certain people access because they will be extorted.  This has happened before and can damage the company’s relationship with their clients.

 

 

So to sum up boycott if you wish, or dont that is your choice.  Either there will be a union or not.  Either way could kill the company and then get rid of the jobs.

[Anonymous 0xp 5]

@totsuzenheni there are hundred of papers in economic journals.  I have a masters degree in economics, I just didn’t pull it out of my arse.

[warworksdkParticipant 1221xp 5]

I’ve been a member of various unions since I started working some 20 years ago. Never regretted it once. When my boss tried to cheat me out of the wages he owed me, the union got him to see sense. And on those occasions where I’ve been unemployed the union has stepped in to help me.

But then again, I am aware that there’s a big difference between how unions work in Europe and in the US, so take it for what it is.

As regards Kickstarter, this is… I would say a minor issue. Don’t get me wrong, I abhor union-busting and will always support workers right to unionize. But compared with the problem of Kickstarter skimming the milk, taking a nice cut of all money and yet refusing to accept any responsibility for what’s happening with the campaigns, it’s a minor issue in my opinion.

[totsuzenheniParticipant 5651xp 0]

@robert . I’m skeptical. I suspect the devil is in the detail with that. I was hoping there was a quick overview. I’ll look it up sometime.

@ghent99. Has that ever happened? Striking against serving a particular client? I doubt that’s legal is it?

[bigdave 3704xp 3]

Had my concerns about Kickstarter for long enough but this latest activity has allowed me to close the book on them for good.

Have to admit, with having friends in the creative industries the topic of worker organisation in those sorts of environments is an interesting one, it’s certainly an issue increasingly being addressed by both the industry and by the Labour movement. When you’re pouring your heart and soul into a personal project it’s understandable that normal working conditions don’t necessarily apply, but as an employee, it’s very easy to forgot your legally entitled rights, or worse, to be aware of them and to be coerced into unhealthy, potentially illegal employment practices for fear of losing your job. Frustrations around Crunch time for example being the epitome of industrial disharmony in electronic gaming so to speak but even basics like having to chase your pay is a sadly increasingly common occurrence amongst some studios.

Whether you’re an artistic creator or in the case of Kickstarter, a vital functionary in the administration of the company, the ability to exercise your democratic rights (regardless of political persuasion) and to retain at least some degree of control over the fruits of your labours is an important one.

[bigdave 3704xp 2]

In regards to striking against a particular client, in the UK it’s totally illegal, I can only imagine it’s much the same in the US. The legality of industrial action in the UK is ultimately centred on whether or not the action you intend to take is a legitimate trade dispute between the employer and the union, if there’s any hint of it being part of a broader political agenda then the courts will totally shut it down. Good example is when a journalistic union (forget which group) at the BBC once threatened to refuse to broadcast the World Cup to apartheid South Africa – being politically motivated and not an industrial dispute there was an injunction from the Court of Appeal in favour of the BBC.

These days you also have certain interpretations of anti-discrimination legislation to take into account.

[limburger 21673xp 2]

oh goodie … yet another boycott. That’ll show them *roll eyes*

Diversity in the workforce is an impossible idea.
To force a bussiness into a ‘diverse’ hiring strategy is corporate suicide plain and simple.
Never mind that such ‘diversity’ plans are suspiciously one-sided. It must feel real good to know that the only reason you were hired was an enforced ‘diversity quotum’ and not your competence as a person.

And a ‘voice at the table’ ?
Good management already knows that it has to respect its workforce and respresent them to upper management layers.
Bad management isn’t going to start treating its workforce better because a union official is there to set them straight.

Kickstarter is providing a service that is an essential part of the economy.
And no amount of whining is going to change the need for a company providing such things.

Every company on this planet has done things that are ‘unethical’ or of ‘questionable integrity’.
If I were to boycott those that offended me I’d be on a desert island somewhere growing my own food.

Or has anyone even looked at how Paypal and the credit card companies operate ? None of them smell of roses when you start digging into their behaviour.

Besides … the golden era of kickstarters/crowdfunding is over as it has become so crowded with projects that you need to be very lucky to gain funding for any given random idea. That’s why we’re seeing companies experiment with alternate forms of crowdfunding.

The response of kickstarter management to unionizing is already showing how scared they really are. Things aren’t going as smoothly as they used to. They’re simply doing what is a basic human response in times of trouble : defending the status quo using whatever means available. They see this union as a disruptive proces (and it is).

A boycott (if a critical mass were to be reached) would only succeed in accelerating the downfall that has already begun.
And it’s not like what kickstarter is doing is something no one else can copy …
It’s the cycle of life. The honeymoon is over. Death comes a knockin.

[bigdave 3704xp 1]

Out of curiosity, where has the ‘diversity’ element come from? I thought the actions being taken by the staff at Kickstarter were geared towards collective bargaining? Also worth noting that the staff in question haven’t called for a boycott but as history proves it can be useful. ‘Critical mass’ is an awkward one, more often than not you will see a response the minute share prices get affected in which case you don’t really need all that many people to take action before the fear sets in and shareholders themselves demand action.

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