Is wargaming just "make believe" with dice?

[pagan8thParticipant 10863xp 1]

I know this is wargaming talk, not RPG, but as a GM I often find it frustrating that players often want to ‘win’…

By that I mean they don’t like to surrender, no matter what the odd. They seem to have faith that the GM won’t go with the TPK…

Defeat makes stories interesting in fiction whether it be TV, movies, or paper. The hero getting captured by the villain only to escape later makes the story more entertaining.

If Leia hadn’t been captured there would be no Luke, Han or Chewie in the story. If Merry and Pippin hadn’t been captured then Ents would not have been involved.

End of ramble…

[blinky465 17028xp 0]

@pagan8th – this is a great point and I think you’ve also hit upon my feeling “at odds” with the wargaming world, more often than not. For me, I’m come to realise that wargaming *should* RPG. (it’s also why I prefer skirmish type games over mass battle, learned to love “campaign” games and have never really understood the concept of “competitive” gaming).

Those little plastic guys on the tabletop are characters – they’re painted with personality, they have different weapons, they’re not just chess pieces. When kids play “make believe” they’re still playing a game, just as playing chess is also a game. So – for me – any wargame should be an RPG. It’s just a different type of game. After all, for a purely strategic, abstract way of “playing war” we’ve got… well…. chess! Those characters moving across the tabletop in my wargames are telling a story (and watching that story unfold is far more interesting than who “wins” at the end).

Personally, I find “trying to win” (at tabletop gaming) as tedious as “winning” when we were running around as six-year-olds, pointing sticks at each other and shouting “pew, pew”. Which is sort-of where this thread started – if we make wargaming more like “make believe games” and use the dice to determine the narrative, rather than pre-calculating the desired results needed to “win”, doesn’t that make it all the more enjoyable?

“Winning” at story-telling is just weird.

 

[darkvernonParticipant 1601xp 1]

@blinky465 : “it feels like a much more fun way to play tabletop games.”

Maybe not a much mor fun way to play tabletop games. At least : to some people.
You’ve found a new way to enjoy your gaming. The thing is to try and find like-minded players. The experience has to be fun for both (or more, if you play a three or four-sided game…) side of the table.
What you describe is the way I’ve been playing for almost all of my minis-player’s life. But if the person in front of you is bent to “play”, it can be a hell of less fun.
On the other hand, this way of playing (the “let’s pretend” way) is why I still play to this day… It’s just another way to live a story. It’s actually an experience close to role-playing game.

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