Is the AWI best served with our current crop of rules?

[oriskany 60771xp 1]

Thanks very much for the link and review, @phaidknott (apologies I missed this earlier today).

I will definitely look into this.

Rise and Fight Again also sounds good but … eh … again …  two warning lights flash in my head.
Napoleonics to American Revolution conversions …
… and “agnostic scale” for the reason @khusrau and I discussed earlier.

Two facets that always make me a little nervous.

@scribbs – do you mean scale agnostic in terms of 6mm, 15mm, 28mm …
or “scale agnostic” in terms of a stand = a file, a stand = a company, and stand = a battalion/regiment, etc.?

The former is no worries.
The latter is where I potentially raise an eyebrow.

[scribbs 14509xp 1]

@oriskany The former definition of scale agnostic – works with 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 28mm etc.

[jamescutts 6924xp 1]

Also thanks @scribbs on pointing out stand to games, I remember seeing their rule sets but couldnt remember the name of them or who did them.

[blipvertus 12359xp 2]

Might want to try the Osprey rules for Rebels & Patriots. I do have that rule set but have not played it myself. I have played 1st Edition Muskets and Tomahawks and generally liked it but found it incredibly easy to get units to flee. I have yet to play 2nd edition but it seems to have addressed several complaints of the previous edition.

On the strategic level, the Continental Army has only one goal, survive. It lost an incredible amount of battles.

But look at the ones it did win. The Saratoga campaign where the British army was at the very end of an incredibly long supply chain in a horrific march through howling wilderness and constantly facing ever larger numbers of enemy troops.  Burgoyne’s army is getting smaller as he leaves behind detachments and smaller units get defeated in detail until finally the final battles where his diminished, outnumbered and exhausted army is out lead by a dynamic and inspirational leader, Benedict Arnold (didn’t see that one coming, did you?).

I guess the point of this is that armies on active campaigns get a lot smaller through non-combat losses and their morale and effectiveness declines the longer they’re in the field. So maybe those class A units would be B or C after a long enough campaign. Or maybe still Class A, but much smaller.

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

@blipvertus Perhaps downgrading the British Troops due to campaign conditions might be the way to go. I know most OOBs don’t usually give the morale and status of the troops other than the strength (and no rules I’ve seen so far even look at things like this).

 

@oriskany Cavalier Books (who publish British Grenadier) also have scenario books available (these do at least give unit strength). Some battles are recommended to play at a figure ratio of 1:20, but some of the smaller battles also recommend you play with a figure ratio of 1:10. These a great if you are feeling lazy, and are finding digging out the information for each battle a chore.

https://www.caliverbooks.com/Partizan%20Press/partizan_AWIS.shtml

The rules are here….

https://www.caliverbooks.com/Partizan%20Press/partizan_BG.shtml

I’ve no idea who stocks these in the US, so you might have to dig around the internet. I’ve got all four of the Scenario books and although a bit expensive they have proved worth their purchase (to me), as I used the OOBs to build and paint up my AWI forces 🙂

 

[smithscoParticipant 1212xp 1]

I’ve tried Black Powder, Rebels and Patriots, and Muskets and Tomahawks. Haven’t liked any of them.

For skirmishes and frontier fighting I made my own rules.

For larger refights and hypothetical battles I’ve heavily modified the Kings of War 2nd edition rules and it worked really well for me. I like the morale system and combat system. I took some unit special rules and adapted them to be situational rules (ex: a special unit rule that boosts the impact of a melee charge for a given unit is instead applied when any line regiments launch bayonet charges against militia). I don’t use the point system which allows me to alter stats for different battles to reflect circumstances. Not perfect but it’s fun and feels oddly more realistic than black powder.

[gamespoetParticipant 26xp 1]

I recommend giving a go to … Light Bobs by Christopher Parker in 2015.  Each unit is intended to be a company to form a battalion, and perhaps other attached units.  These rules can be used to filed multiple battalions, especially for multiplayer games.  Each company is 4 to 12 figures for 4 to 6 companies, making for a relatively small number of miniatures needed per side.  There are tables for creating sides that include the Boston, Saratoga, Mid Atlantic States, and Southern theaters.  These rules can used in a narrative way with personalities for the leaders, or to create historical or hypothetical scenarios which can be completed in 2 to 3 hours once familiarity with the rules is gained.

[jamescutts 6924xp 2]

I actually was at an event the other weekend with a AWI sharp practice game, and watched in on a few bits, a fantastic game and really drew people in, including those with no real interest in the AWI before.

I can’t comment too much on the rules as I didn’t stick around it too long to see them all in play and I also know lardie games are a bit like marmite (you love or hate them) but the experience looked to be a enjoyable one. Usual sort of sharp practice scale game, the like you see on TableTop CP quite frequently. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLman1BrPaQ5AZZ7pl6NbU6pUkdirOBQl3

Probably not that suited for larger-scale battles, unless you use smaller scale minis or have a tennis court to play on, and even then the command and organisation structure doesn’t really fit with what the game offers.

 

[khusrauParticipant 1169xp 1]

Perhaps if you could give us a steer as to what you disliked about those rules it might help us recommend a set you might like.

[scribbs 14509xp 1]

To throw another ruleset into the hat for consideration, Little Wars TV has just released a new set of rules for the AWI called Live Free or Die.

https://www.littlewarstv.com/live-free-or-die.html

[oriskany 60771xp 1]

Might not be much help but might make for a fun watch. 😀

 

[eyedeedeeParticipant 29xp 2]

Hi,

Am a tad late to the party… I’ve been home-bashing a 6mm solo variant of Andy Callan’s old “Loose Files and American Scramble” (adding SP type activation, use of Blinds in woods etc.. etc.). Still a WiP, but the games are fun and flavoursome..

[khusrauParticipant 1169xp 2]

The one comment I would make that I intended to earlier, was that any description of British Light infantry as being in any way less effective than American troops shows a lack of familiarity with the sources. British Lights were aggressive, effective in bad terrain and skilled fighters under generally good low level leadership.

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

Still on the quest for the “perfect” set of AWI rules. I think part of the problem is also the “scope” of some of the battles. Some well known battles only had perhaps a battalion each side (deployed in various companies), and some were battles more in your typical Napoleonic game with 1000s of men on each side (and AWI wargames rules often try and cover all the bases when it comes to this and doing the job imperfectly because of this).

“British Grenadier” rules seems to rely on the fact that the British forces are usually acting very aggressively and the Americans are formed in two lines of battle (First line made up of skirmishers and militia to put out the disruption chits, before the second line of more “regular” and continental troops attempt to engage as fresh troops on the disordered British lines). Problem usually occurs that by the time the American first line is retiring/routing away from the British lines the entire army moral means the second line is in a fragile state and tends to break and run away (along with the remnants of the American first line). Perhaps the fix/house rule here might be to have TWO sets of “army moral” going on (one for the Militias and another for the more regular troops). It’s hard to find any references/journals for Officers for the day and “if” they paid any attention to what the Militia troops were doing on the day (and were they expected to “run away” as part of the battle).

“Rise and Fight Again” rules use a system of “army fatigue” to model army morale (the morale might be fine, but the troops are just too tired to fight on), and again the battles rely on the American tactic of fighting in two battle lines to try and disorder/tire out the British to even the odds against the better classification of the regular British Line Battalions.

I’ve just also got the Warlord published book “Rebellion!” (written by Steve Jones”) as this was recommended reading from a YouTube Channel I’ve been watching (wish I could find the channel again) that was recommended even if you don’t play with Warlord Black Powder rules (which I don’t). Perhaps this book has the “fix” for things in that the author assigns the Black Powder troop “traits” (things like “weary” or “bloodthirsty”) to the troops dependant on how they fought in the BATTLE (rather than for the whole war). Thus a Militia Regt might be weary for most games but on the day when they outperformed themselves they might get “Fierce” etc. HOWEVER researching and assigning these traits special rules would probably be a full time job, open to debate and critique on your personal findings.

The whole AWI conflict is such a mixed bag when it comes to wargaming, but I’ve still yet to find rules that reflect the conflict without it playing like a normal Napoleonic style of game (and troop classifications) where things start to fall apart when you try and stage an historical refight (with OOBs and Regt troop strengths) rather than a pointed more tourney style of game.

 

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

“Perhaps if you could give us a steer as to what you disliked about those rules it might help us recommend a set you might like.”

 

I pretty much enjoy a refight of an historical battle (using OOBs, historical troop strengths, deployment as it was on the day), and play at the “tactical level” of the game (where the basic unit is the battalion), and base figures on bases akin to the companies used in each battalion (so in this case each battalion has 10 bases (or 8 when they’ve had the flank companies knicked). I prefer rules that have you changing formations on the table (rather than just a “lump” of troops) such as square, skirmish order etc. I guess these are a an “old school” set of rules when it comes to a preference (as I said earlier my absolute FAVORITE set of rules is Johnny Reb (second edition of course in the blue box) for the ACW). I loath games with “points” systems and are more tourney based, and expect a good refight game to last an entire day or two (I’m lucky in that I can set up a table and leave it up for as long as needed), so I’m quite happy for rules to be complicated and have book-keeping as long as they get the job done and accurately model the conflict involved (is  the more of a “simulation” style of game rather than a pick-up one?).

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