Is BoW biased in its reviews?

[redhoodParticipant 619xp 0]

You know I’ve been thinking the same thing for some time now. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate people trying to show enthusiasm but I do often find myself thinking that BoW is like the QVC of the tabletop gaming world. Everything is wonderful and we should all buy it.

I see people saying above BoW intentionally don’t review the crap – that’s very black and white. I’d just love for a more rounded approach to be honest perhaps at the end of an impressions video or playthrough give a pro’s and con’s list. I think we all can accept a good product can have flaws too. If a developer can’t accept a modicum of criticism do you want to review/showcase their products in the first place?

 

 

 

 

[warzanKeymaster 31125xp 0]

Do you have a specific example in mind?

[redhoodParticipant 619xp 0]

I don’t have a ‘specific’ example in mind it’s more an overall tone that comes across at times. We don’t often get to hear the potential drawbacks or areas in which the product could be improved. Someone above gave The Dice Tower as an example they can often show real enthusiasm, knowledge and passion for what their reviewing/giving impressions of yet they don’t shy away from saying what they dislike. I actually very rarely find their ‘negative reviews’ overly judgmental and they try to remain tactful and constructive (95% of the time) in their criticism.

I suppose in trying to keep to a neutral ground it’s difficult to really give an in depth impression of what you’re looking at because you don’t really want to be controversial or essentially annoy anyone especially if said person is sat right in front of you with a camera pointing at them!

 

 

[warzanKeymaster 31125xp 1]

Could it be that we don’t actually film reviews? (I suppose an unboxing is as close as we get)

We film full play throughs primarily so folk can see a game in action.

Some examples of what you mean would be useful other wise it’s difficult to pin down 🙂

 

[a27cromwell 3188xp 0]

IMO the BOW crew do a great job on game playthroughs , unboxings , and reviews . As a community we have a huge variety of interests and skill levels , so to what demographic should they speak ? Tank nuts  like me who will redo all the wheel nuts on 16  road wheels of a tank because they look out of scale or the guy who just slaps the kit together , glue smears and all . I feel they have to speak to your average gamer / modeller / builder . Those of us with higher skills will see the potential in the kits / figures they show . Those of less skill ( newbies , fan boys & blind old farts , I seem to be getting there ! ) will see if their skills will enable them to build , paint / enjoy this product . And at no time has it ever come across , to me at least , that the BOW crew are on the payroll of any game companies out there , sure they have a great relationship with various people , the guys from 4Ground , Carlos ( Infinity ) and a few others who’s names escape me right now  , but from watching the games played and the banter while talking about new kit releases , its the love of the game , the mini and the hobby that brings them together . And I think many of us out  here wish we could be there to join in on the fun , I just love Ben from 4Ground . Ah , that might have come across wrong ….but you know what I mean

[osbad 4279xp 1]

One of the problems with reviewing games and model kits is that so much is subjective.  For instance, in terms of models you have a range from the likes of for the sake of argument, Reaper Bones at one extreme to Forgeworld resin at the other.  Now which is “better” or “worse”. Forgeworld resin is sharper and easier to paint but costs many times as much for a model.  Which is better? Depends on the criterion, for instance, Reaper Bones are much more durable and tough than Forgeworld resin, so does that make them “better”?  Maybe if I’m a DM carting them about!  So much is objective though, but there is also an intangible element – whether the model has heart – does the sculpt grab you?  There are many Forgeworld models that I may feel are a bit uninspiring, but someone else may drool over. Neither of us is wrong.

I do feel that BoW are good at commenting when something doesn’t really grab them – I recall a comment by @warzan the other week about some new models in shown in a weekender that he thought were somewhat “soft” in detail.

I have absolute confidence that when the BoW guys say they like something they do actually like it.  Mostly they are giving their initial impressions in unboxings and lets-plays which is not an in-depth review format. But in the weekenders and XLBS shows occasionally topics come up that indicate when the guys have a less thankfully enthusiastic opinion of something.  Clearly, they have to be careful about slander, but when something has “gone off the boil” for them it is usually clear.  Perhaps this is a little nuanced to pass outside of UK culture – which has an unusually refined sense of sarcasm?  Forgive me if I am spreading a stereotype, but sometimes German culture takes things said a little more literally than is intended by UK folks.  Also, you have to remember us British folks are unfailingly polite and hate to be thought of as rude, so criticism is often presented as “faint praise” rather than outright criticism.  That also is easy to miss to someone not familiar with the culture.

In the end I think all that BoW can and should do is present the contents and their initial opinions of them as straight forwardly as possible and present them to us,and leave it up to us to decide whether we are interested in the product or not.  after several years of watching BoW I have got a feeling about who’s opinions are closest to mine and whose are further away – for instance, I am I think closest to Lloyd’s views – which are I feel primarily about atmosphere and tone, whereas Justin’s tend to be more about crunch and mechanics, so if Lloyd likes a game and Justin is less enamoured, then maybe I would like it, but if it were the other way around, I would probably enjoy it less.

 

[mecha82Participant 10037xp 1]

@paul Mullis You made good point when you talked about it being subjective. It’s also why some times person reading or watching review might not like product that reviewer likes or likes product that reviewer doesn’t like. Which is why it’s ultimately up to person reading or watching review to make his or her own opinion based on review instead of just going with what reviewer says.

[ghent99 3589xp 3]

Gonna drop my 2 cents in here ( not sure what that is in old money), Beasts of War is a bit more of a magazine than a newspaper and there are really no “journalists” on the staff, take no offence to this but the core group are gamers that play and enjoy games and now present the hobby.  Too this point I do think that they have been critical (in the true sense of the term) about games.  They do not usually make a point of being negative and usually when having issues present a way to improve things.  @warzan is correct the closest thing to real critical work is during unboxings and there have been many times they have ripped apart the minis and the options in a box, I will admit it doesn’t happen often but that is the nature of the show.

So in trying to not be a total fanboy I will say that I would like a bit more journalistic action to go on and more hard reporting on issues in the industry but this is a soft news site and place to enjoy not a hard news site.

 

Again just my 8 million pesos.  🙂

[nogbadthebad 5771xp 1]

Due to limited time I don’t tend to watch unboxings as I am usually trying to finish watching the weekenders before the next come out.. (case in point have only just completed last Sunday’s lbs!)

For the more positive view point I think we are always more forgiving if we like the idea and ethos of a product or even a particular company – like kids, your is just a playful scamp where as I wudnt let him play with little billy next door as he’s rough as hell and his mum goes to the shop dressed like that etc etc. I think this can then be perceived as bias is a system such as blood red skies is put in front of a WW2 fanatic like John who gets where they come from and to someone of his skill, what’s a bit of flash/awkward join etc

to my more cynical eye, if I was sending product for review… I would have qc’d the blooming heck out of it before sending along… and only the best runs would be off to the reviewers probing eyes.. if this is how it works of course… case in point based on the few I have seen on here and elsewhere I have recently acquired 28mm/heroic scale minis from a couple of suppliers now that while would still have passed a qc process, do not match what I have seen, despite my slap dash approach and lack of skill. Sometimes the quality can vary between sprues of the same item in the same box.  How you avoid this particular issue I dunno without a bigger budget (please don’t increase the subs because of me!!)

 

[tankkommanderParticipant 6429xp 1]

Site ate my last reply.

Simply put BoW shows the shiny and nothing more.

Take the Warlord release of Bombers for BRS. All you did was put up the press release. Didn’t do anything more than that. Would be nice if you mentioned they are re-packaged cheap Zvezda kits with a huge mark up.

That would add value for me. This site is good at bringing news in to one place, but it has no depth.

[tankkommanderParticipant 6429xp 1]

“So in trying to not be a total fanboy I will say that I would like a bit more journalistic action to go on and more hard reporting on issues in the industry but this is a soft news site and place to enjoy not a hard news site.”

Absolutely. And having done reviews for an PRG magazine in the past I had reviews pulled because of perceived negative comments. Why? Because the magazine publisher needed Ad revenue and good will from games companies to continue in business.

This is something we all need to keep in mind. This is a business for all concerned. The games companies, the bigger YT channels, and websites.

And to be fair BoW do not hide that, and don’t do reviews.

[warzanKeymaster 31125xp 1]

@tankkommander did you watch yesterday’s weekender segment about the bombers?

[tankkommanderParticipant 6429xp 0]

Just had a look and see you discussed this.

Neither of the articles on the website (other than comments) make mention of it.

Not trying to beat you with a stick 🙂 I understand the nature of the site and what content you are providing.

[warzanKeymaster 31125xp 1]

I think it’s important to mention something in regard to the ‘it has no depth’ comment though 🙂

Depth is achieved here over the course of multiple ‘articles’ (whatever the format, video etc)

 

Infact when you take into account play throughs, unboxing, interviews and news I’m not sure anywhere provides more depth on such a large number of games. And this is being stepped up even more with the big push into user-generated content and user ratings and reviews etc that 2.0 is beginning to facilitate.

I think sometimes there is a vibe that because we are light hearted we lack depth, but personally I don’t think that’s the case and topics that might be ‘hot’ now (looking at you gencon) we have been discussing in XLBS a number of years ago.

 

[tankkommanderParticipant 6429xp 1]

@warzan I should have put the ‘depth’ comment in to better context. I meant as in ‘digging’ around for information rather than re-publishing existing content from games companies.

Your original content (play-throughs, unboxings, live events, painting etc.) is very good but again I would not say you are in the games journalism business (and don’t claim to be).

If the deeper content is behind the pay wall then i’m not able to comment on that.

Again, not looking to trash what you do here. This site is well run and a great resource.

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