Is BoW biased in its reviews?

[sundancer 42979xp 2]

STOP! Please put away the torches and pitchforks. My reason to ask is the following:

Since I joined BoW (which isn’t that long ago) every unboxing and review I read or watched was full of praise and awe but never a “meh, not mine” or criticism like “the mould lines are bad on this cast”.

Maybe I just missed those reviews/unboxings.

Maybe the article/video was always done by the one BoW staff member who is a fan (dare I say fanboy)

But maybe because is a business (It’s a ltd. after all) they don’t want to do bad reviews or critical unboxings?

The main reason why this popped into my head is that I watched some videos on “blood red skies” and they were all positive. And now I read an article on a different established community and they have some real criticism like bad mould lines and such things.  That somehow got me thinking.

I don’t want to point fingers and say “you are doing it wrong” but maybe sometime critique is in order? Sometimes?

If I really missed articles and videos that do criticize games/models/manufacturers, please let me know.

That’s all for now… please don’t kill me 😉

[warzanKeymaster 31125xp 6]

@johnlyons has shown of and painted dozens of the little planes from RBS on here.

 

Worth going in to see the results first hand.

 

If something is utterly shite it won’t make it onto the channel – as we have little time to spend on that.

[sundancer 42979xp 1]

But that would then suggest that everything not covered on BoW is shite, would it not? And some things are net complete shite but have maybe a flaw in it. (wrong plastic for miniatures, badly written rules etc)

I really don’t want do offend anyone and maybe it’s just the stereotypical German in me that always needs something “negative” in it (or it’s the IT professional in me who *always* sees traps, hooks and disasters) but a “all here is great and without a flaw” is a bit unsettling. (That said one should always and on any subject hear more than one voice and make judgement on different opinions. At least that’s what I try to do. Because, as you said, to much hobby, to little time) 🙂

Cheers

[bothiParticipant 6472xp 4]

I think I know what @sundancer means. But I think “biased” is the wrong word. I’d say its something more like this: “Sometimes the enthusiasm for new and shiny stuff gets in the way of criticism”. A problem that I have with a lot of review sites online and with myself. Sometimes the aspect of something new overshines everything else. Then you buy it and after a while you recognize a lot of problems with the product.

But I think its even more a language / cultural thing. As I’m german too I’m used to quite harsh criticism that is actually not meant that harshly but more honestly. I’m part of a huge global IT company (over 200k employees) and I have to do professionaly with people from all over the world everyday. And I had to learn the hard way that I cannot use my german tone of conversation anywhere. It works with the French and the Dutch. Because they are not english native speakers and are quite direct people. Especially the Dutch. Once you get honestly critizied by a Dutch you need a drink afterwards. But he only wanted to give you his honest oppinion and didn’t wanted to attack you in any way.

When you get to Indian and eastern Asian people you have to be really careful what you say to them. You can hurt them or insult them very deeply without even noticing it. That is not good for working conditions. English native speakers (Brits and Americans, never really had to do with Canadians, sorry) are somewhere in between in my experience. But I think the english language tends to be much less harsh than german. Or the otherway around, when you say something harsh in english it sounds much more negative than in german. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that something is better than another thing. Or that some people are “tougher” or “softer”. It just that cultures can be very different around the globe. People are mostly the same once you get to know them. Cultures aren’t.

Wow. What a rant. So yeah I think sometimes the typical BoW enthusiam (don’t get me wrong, this is very good thing) gets in the way of criticism. But then how would you tone that criticism? In a german / dutch way? Then a lot of people would be offended by the harsh tone of it. In a “pulling the punches” way? Then other people will be saying, that this is no real criticism. So I think the enitre BoW Team is doing a great job on a very difficult and dicy topic with their first and main focus not to insult anyone. ( Although I remember a review of the GW Lord of Skulls by Warren a few years back which was quite entertaining 😀 ).

Again. This is only my oppinion. So please correct me where I’m wrong.

 

[moonunitParticipant 4505xp 1]

Enthusiastic? Yes. Biased? Never really got that impression. The editorial style of the site seems to veer away from personal opinions mostly, particularly in the news items. The unboxing are likely only done for stuff they like anyway. I trust em’

[fuzzydunlop 73xp 1]

@sundancer – I don’t know that it would necessarily imply that everything not covered by BoW is shite. If you look on the board game side of things, the guys at Shut Up & Sit Down run their website/reviews similar to what @warzan mentioned – Not spending time on things they don’t like.

We’ve been in a bit of a golden age for tabletop and board games for, what, about a decade now? more? There isn’t time to get to all of the worthwhile stuff, let alone the chaff.
Quality across the board (at least from the design and production side) has been continually getting better and better, and there are a lot of interesting ideas coming out as far as rule-sets go.

The guys at BoW praising everything that gets coverage on their channel as being great doesn’t mean it will be great for everyone.

That being said, I would be interested to see them revisit their opinions on games after the shiny newness has worn off. What games are still fun 12 months later and beyond? What games did they have a passionate love affair with for a few months, but haven’t had any interest in since?

I also think being a little more critical of the companies might be worthwhile. This is an expensive hobby, and their are companies out there who may make interesting looking games, but they’ve also been building up a lot of ill-will through failure to deliver projects, lack of communication, that sort of thing.

Maybe promotion of games by those companies should come with a caveat.
(I’m thinking of a specific company – with several names, or ‘divisions’ if you will – that has quite a few KS backers who have been growing increasingly frustrated over said company launching new projects when previous projects are not only still unfulfilled, but at least a year behind schedule + no communication with backers.)

[sundancer 42979xp 0]

Thank you for your replies, I think @bothi hit the nail on the head with his words. Please bear in mind that I’m not a native English speaker and most words I use could be the wrong ones since I have to look them up in a dictionary from time to time.

I really like @fuzzydunlop idea with a revisit after time x. That could really show if a game/system has legs or is just a short burst. Especially with all the kickstarters being started left, right and center.

[stvitusdancernParticipant 1933xp 5]

As Warren has said we don’t spend time on I items that are bad. There have been several times that we have filmed something and the game is boring or just not good. We rather focus on positive not the negative. There are too many games and such and time and space were limited. We rather show you those that we think you might enjoy. If you watch some videos you will see us talk about assembly and mold lines as need be. We want you to enjoy the games and have fun.

[sundancer 42979xp 0]

Maybe you could make a forum thread with “Games tested and deemed unworthy” as a sort of “don’t even bother getting this” guide or something? It wouldn’t need to be a video (which is obviously more work) but it would be much appreciated if you (BoW) had your hands on something that was sub-par you would tell us about.  “Trash or trove” or something… 🙂

[limburger 21708xp 4]

( LOL … I didn’t know that people needed a drink after I critized them, then again maybe I haven’t had that opportunity … ;-))

The British can be pretty direct too. At least the reviews that TotalBiscuit (real name : John Bain; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TotalBiscuit ) used to do where a good example of that.

I think some sites are overly harsh on certain aspects … so I’m not sure if BoW is a bit soft.

The lack of “this thing is bad” reviews does make it difficult to judge their standards, but at the same time I’d argue that we shouldn’t rely on a single source of reviews anyway. They also do a pretty good job of disclosing when they have been sponsored, so we can exlude their bias as a result (at least that’s what I do).

The unboxings tend to show all of the bits and pieces in as much detail as possible.
It would be nice to see those expanded to include photos as that can show more detail than a video clip ever can, but at the same time everyone is going to have their own standards for things like mold lines and detail at a given scale and gametype.

Gameplay is a difficult thing to judge under the best of circumstances.
From what I’ve seen a lot of the “this thing suxxorz!1!” comments by people on the internet is the result of them not getting what they want or having expectations that don’t match reality.

The “Let’s play” examples tend to show the games in all of their glory. And (to me) they’re probably even better than reviews, because you can see how easy the game is to learn. These might not expose all aspects, but as a general impression they serve their purpose. I think that with a few more “let’s play” examples to explore more aspects the format would be perfect. However as with anything a lack of resources makes that impossible. To me this is potentially an aspect that the community can fill by posting their own battlereports and opinions.

It is important to note that very few sites cover the long term ‘fun’ of games, which is kind of understandable as there is an enormous amount of new releases every year.
It would be a really cool feature to have. Name it “Past the honeymoon : is it still fun?”

[chaingunParticipant 1939xp 1]

I think what you asking is subjective and by this I mean, what product you might find rubbish another person might find it great. We as humans are very different and we like different things, after all if we didn’t then we would not get new shiny things.

Dont get me wrong I do see where your coming from on this subject, but I think it’s a hobby problem and not just a BoW issue. I get the monthly magazines and each of them give reviews, but none of them give actual opinions that would suggest the item they are reviewing is crap.

Unfortounatly it is down to us the viewer / consumers that have to form our own opinions if something is rubbish or not, but it would be nice if BoW and the magazines did publish the things they thought were rubbish.

[m30wm1x 2318xp 1]

I think that the games that they choose to show are always going to be ones that are always going to get some enjoyment from, as this is both a community that has a wide range of intrests and people in it. From memory a couple of weekenders ago BoW Sam was talking about how he doesn’t have much intrest in historical gaming, so putting him in a Bolt Action or Flames of War lets play wouldn’t show of the game as well. This could lead to the impression that every game on here is a win for everyone, but that’s not the case.

As for the mini’s shown off, I’ve had some boxes of stuff that’s noticibly less neatly moulded than what’s been shown off on BoW on an unboxing or weekender, first one that comes to mind is the Guildball blacksmiths. I always put that down to the fact that for a company not everything they make is going to be the best quality they can, mould slips, air bubbles, etc. But the ones that they send out to be studio painted or to show off on somewhere like BoW (not that any other site can match the beasts) is probably going to be the best minis that they can pull off.

I do think you are right in that a thread about games that really don’t have a fun playthrough would be good, I’ve always wondered what BoW have filmed but thought they just couldn’t put out.

[tpryan01Member 226xp 1]

well yeah they are biased…but as Warzan explains that is due to a “filtering out” of stuff they don’t like.
I don’t have a problem with this.
it would be cool if they had a semi-weekly review of fan submitted games (i.e. they may not have made it through the filter) so that we could see what BOW doesn’t like…

[bloodstrike 1414xp 3]

I never really have felt like BoW actually does reviews. feels much more like show and tell and I do seem to recall in some of the unboxing videos mention of things they thing could have been down differently or added to kits always with a focus on the positive side of things.

[davehawes 7768xp 5]

Yeah, I think I agree with what some others are saying here, that I’ve never felt that BoW presented itself as a review site, or it’s content as reviews as such. I feel like more it’s enthusiastic positive people making entertaining content about stuff they are passionate about. I really feel like with the high production quality of the videos, and the depth you get from say a 2 hours let’s play, they are really giving you most of the information that you need to make the decision for yourself.

In an odd way, it’s sort of the opposite of biased, it’s presented pleasantly, but not as a “you should buy this” or a “you shouldn’t buy this” but more of an “it is this, what do you think?”.

I know you can’t always see things like mould lines on camera, and I can understand the want for a bit more criticism. However I really like the format overall, there are plenty of sites out there that find fault, I do prefer the BoW editorial tone for my tastes. That might just be personal opinion though.

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