Dear UK miniature makers

[peacefulwarrior 2936xp 1]

I can only speak for my own purchasing pattern and Brexit has effected my choices. With 25% import tax and if the order is above roughly 170 euro an extra customs charge, I have found myself looking for miniatures from EU based shops. This has resulted in me choosing not to purchase from smaller miniature companies. It is sad, because I mostly find the smaller independent companies’ miniatures more interesting. The added import tax has also made ebay purchases less viable for me. Even “cheap” Lledo cars are now more expensive than buying new 1/48 scale models or Rubicons 1/56 models from EU online shops.

If smaller miniatures companies didn’t apply VAT to my purchases I would probably keep on buying from them. A 6% increase in cost is okey to me, but paying both UK tax and Swedish tax is just a bit too much. Still if there is a really nice mini I might still buy it. But Ive found myself adding minis to a cart only to in the end decide to get something without a 25% import tax on top of the cost at the bottom line.

Since I tend to like old school minis and games, the Brexit effect on my hobby has been significant.

[mecha82Participant 10037xp 8]

Don’t put on spite what can be explained with incompetence. This is on UK politicians that started and handled Brexit since it’s clear to me that they didn’t have trade deals ready when Brexit finally become reality after long wait. It’s major oversight from people that should had made sure that they country can continue trading with other countries without any issues. But here we are.

[solarParticipant 2781xp 1]

The problem we had in the UK with our politicians is that they

A – clearly didnt understand public sentiment and the overall apathy towards the EU… quite concerning when they are supposed to represent the public

B – most of them probably found the actual work load involved distasteful and frankly were too lazy to accept what they needed to do to enact Brexit successfully

C – had little to no actual control over the civil service who seem a law unto themselves

D – they clearly hoped under Theresa May that maybe Brexit might be reversed in some way. This annoyed the public quite extensively (see our election and european election results) and finally gave them a bit of a kick up the arse to get on with it.

E – on top of all that wasted time and energy the pandemic then struck. Something else that politicians have clearly little capacity to react to sensibly and constructively (lets just lock everyone up and destroy our economies for 2 years!)

And this is only from the UK side, the EU politicians have also made a total cluster**** of the whole thing.

As a Brit I sympathise that Brexit has had some negative consequwnces, but I am still 100% certain that it was the right thing and unfortunately for remainers I dont think I am in a minority here.

 

 

[limburger 21655xp 1]

I find the ‘handling fee’ that you have to pay far more annoying, because that really hurts when you only want to a few cheap minis.

btw : trying to get any handling fees or incorrect import duties refunded is hell.(period)
I had to get a refund because the local postal service idiots had charged handling fees me for an OTT order by accident early June.

It only got credited today (30 September) … 3 months later!
I don’t want to imagine the hassle small companies have to endure to deal with sort of thing on a daily basis.

[warcoloursParticipant 438xp 5]

Warcolours – I’d investigate customs regulations if I were you. Origin and final destination do play a role. If 100% of the minis you import into the EU also leave the EU, you/they might be able to get import tax back. Similarly, if the customer can prove the minis originated in the UK, there should be no import tax (though arguably, they have been materially changed by painting which may complicate matters). It may be a pain in the posterior to figure out, but could be worth it.

I checked: I could set up things so that they come as “goods to be transformed and returned”, but this would require me to set up something that would be worthy only if my income was about twenty times my actual one…

As a Brit I sympathise that Brexit has had some negative consequwnces, but I am still 100% certain that it was the right thing and unfortunately for remainers I dont think I am in a minority here.

No intention to intrude into your internal affairs, but technically that is wrong: 72% of voters expressed an opinion on the subject, and of these 52% voted for leaving the EU. This means that those who actually voted for leaving was only 38% of the total voters, which is, as a matter of fact, a minority. But that is the paradox of democracy.

[praefectusclassisParticipant 139xp 3]

I checked: I could set up things so that they come as “goods to be transformed and returned”, but this would require me to set up something that would be worthy only if my income was about twenty times my actual one…

Sorry to hear that!

[redscopeParticipant 2709xp 2]

It is all a bit of pain and it also applies to people in  the UK buying in europe as well. As much as I enjoy Ontabletop review of smaller gaming companies unless they are based in the UK these days it is simple not worth the risk buying from them. The import duty anyway from countries like USA and Australia was so bad it is not worth buying from them. Now I have added a bucket load of European countries to the list which are now far to expensive to consider purchasing models from.

The only upside is in the UK we are blessed with so many model companies that it is not really that much of the problem but I do feel sad for the europeans not able to get the models they want.

I dont know if perhaps the hope is the powers that be find a solution to the problem but until then it is UK companies only for me sadly.

[solarParticipant 2781xp 0]

Bit irrelevant really, for all we know the rest of the voters might have all voted Leave… to be honest anyone who didnt bother to vote cannot really complain either way

[warcoloursParticipant 438xp 4]

Bit irrelevant really, for all we know the rest of the voters might have all voted Leave… to be honest anyone who didnt bother to vote cannot really complain either way

Well, not really: first, because not voting is, in any case, a political stance, and generally means supporting the currently strongest faction, secondly because the opposite could be said. If someone wants to change something, will take action accordingly. If that person does not take action it is most likely that they are ok with things as they are. This kind of mechanism has been taken multiple times in referenda in Italy.

[totsuzenheniParticipant 5651xp 0]

Isn’t it possible to keep purchases under £135 (or some other amount in the EU) to avoid additional VAT charges? That’s what i’m doing in the UK, though i haven’t actually received any goods from outside the UK yet since the UK left the EU so i won’t know how good this is in practice until i do i suppose.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-value-your-imports-for-customs-duty-and-trade-statistics

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7208/~/help-with-paying-customs-fees

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users

[solarParticipant 2781xp 0]

Are you Italian? That may apply in Italy but definitely doesnt apply in the UK

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

Sorry Avenos, all we got here was all the stuff on “sausage-gate” and VAT and the confusion around that.

I suppose with the decision to allow companies with a small EU turnover in mainland Britian to add VAT to EU customers there must be a way for EU customers to claim back the VAT charged on the invoice (I assume they still have to pay the VAT/Sales tax in the receiving country). I imagine the wait is probably weeks for even months to get this back and even if you know how, many probably would just give up after being faced with loads of paperwork. It seems completely daft to allow a customer to be charged for VAT twice (even in the US they don’t add sales tax to exports outside US borders (and even outside state borders)), and I can’t believe this is “working as intended”.

Problem seems to be the guidance has been given to the small business owners to charge VAT in the UK when selling to the EU…..and then all information stops. For a larger company they can register for an VAT number in an EU country (or set up an office there), but for smaller one man operations (like Fenris) the costs of doing so would be prohibitive. It’s all a black hole for the two sides to sort this out (no doubt it will in a decade or so) so far. The whole this is really punishing for small businesses on both sides of the channel, and paying for a legal professional to give the proper guidance to each individual trader is again extra costs to that trader (for example I don’t know what the situation on books is now. Previously books were always zero rated for VAT in the UK, but I know some countries in the EU don’t have them zero rated).

It’s all damn confusing, cost money, and I don’t see the “win” for anyone with this damn thing 🙁

[tankkommanderParticipant 6411xp 1]

This is the reason I don’t buy miniatures from USA based companies. The hassle of import tax and associated admin costs is just not worth the risk. Sometimes a package will get through, other times they get held up.

I can however buy from the OTT store with no hassle and great customer service 🙂

[phaidknott 7023xp 1]

Saw this today in the Baccus Newsletter (from Uncle Pete)……

“We are part of the IOSS scheme which means that you can order from us, paying the VAT up front, which should allow your order to arrive in a timely manner with no extra charges. Yes, there have been teething issues with the system as various postal services get to grips with the new system, but, on the whole it is working well. We have also changed the way we send items to the EU, and that is also proving very effective in getting orders to customers. There is one big issue with the IOSS service. There is a restriction of 150 Euros on any one order – about £135. As a result we have had to cap EU orders at that amount.”

HOWEVER you need to remember that for a Trader to sign up for the IOSS scheme it’s going to add time needed to file quarterly VAT returns (or more likely pay an accountant to do it), which all adds to the overheads in running the company.

A lot of the smaller wargaming companies are one man operations operating out of a small workshop and margins are tight (and for businesses like Fenris who do resin minis, I imagine they are being hideously squeezed for sale by the advent of 3D printing where gamers are doing things like printing figures bases as routine (which used to be a main product line for Fenris)). So they may just not be able to operate the IOSS scheme because margins are that tight.

So at the end of the day it’s going to mean increases in prices (sometimes to pay the accountant, sometimes legal fees to set this all up) to the customer, OR they end up paying VAT/Sales Tax twice in rare cases. It’s not good, and it takes a politician to royally mess things up this badly. But we need to remember for the traders all this is a nightmare, costs money, and customer dissatisfaction at paying more for their minis through no fault of their own (customers or the traders).

Perhaps we need to vote wargamers in as our MPs next time around 😀

 

[danlee 22429xp 2]

The biggest problem I have seen with international shipping (working for a company that does international shipping world wide every day, and has done so since before Brexit) is the confusion along the entire transit chain.

 

Before there were no (or next to no) rules to follow so a parcel from the UK could arrive to an EU country over night.

 

Now the shipper, the transit broker, courier, export customs, import customs, other courier, and receiver all need to know what to do (and this varies from one EU country to the next). If anybody misunderstands a rule the parcel can be delayed or returned. Even big shipping companies that you would expect to know how to handle this stuff don’t, and you can get lucky and get a clued in staff member handling your parcel and it goes through ok. The next identical shipment can get held up as it gets handled by a different member of staff who has had different training or interprets the rules differently.

 

Each company involved will often also charge more to handle the extra paperwork, even if taxes or import duties still don’t apply.

 

Everything has become so much slower and more expensive.

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