Beyond the Monolith? Confusion!?!

[pojoh 2063xp 0]

I emailed Monolith early last year, about upgrading Conan.   They mentioned that something was happening this year, and I guess this is it.    I was hoping for a simple kickstarter that would have upgraded rules, and upgraded components (ala Batman), I don’t think this KS has that option.   I would of really enjoyed upgraded models (alt) that allow me to play the game when my 9 year old is in the room, and are made of better material.   Instead this happens.   Personally I have enough mini’s  to paint.. really don’t need doubles and triples of what I already have.  Plus if I wanted this, I’ll just wait for retail and get it cheaper.  Just disappointed in this missed opportunity to upgrade, fix, and refine the original.

[limburger 21672xp 0]

@ghent99 Batman and Conan are the only ones that have an upgrade path in this kickstarter by picking the Bat or Leader pledge levels.
Except they didn’t count on anyone backing both.

I’d say that unless you liked to play the versus mode from Batman with Conan minis there’s no real reason to back this kickstarter.

The only reason I’m in is because I do want the Conan themed minis.

// —

The funding goal is only ridiculous when you consider that they tried to fund a complete game like Conan with 80k.
However when you look at what may be needed to run a company and have some working capital then it might be more realistic from a pure financial point of view (they need at least a year worth of wages and cost of being a company … ).

It’s the kickstarter paradox … ask a realistic amount and people get scared thinking it might not fund.
Ask an unrealistic amount and they may have to take a loss in order to deliver.

Also … while they may not need to design the minis from scratch. They have about a year worth of wages to pay for whoever is dedicated to this project.

It sucks that Kickstarter has devolved into a marketing gimmick where it is impossible to judge if the goal set by the creators really is sufficient to complete the project.

 

[ced1106Participant 6224xp 0]

Monolith is pretty much only Fred Henry. Mythic no longer works with Monolith, and he’s lost investors. MBP 1.5 was a business failure, to the point where he’s mortgaged (?) his own house to pay for fulfillment.

So that’s why 700K. It’s realistic in the sense that I don’t think anyone wants a creator to risk his own home for a project (although it’s happened for other projects, including Cthulhu Wars, I think). KS is about passing on risk to the backers, and 700K will reduce the amount of risk he personally has to take.

That being said, Fred Henry is only interested in VS mode. KS is not a store, but it’s not an art foundation, either. Fred Henry said he’ll shut down Monolith if the project doesn’t fund, but if VS mode isn’t financially viable because of lack of demand, then that’s probably for the better. Who needs to stay in business when you don’t have a large enough market for your main product?

We’ll miss the miniatures and MB: Ragnorak. But it’s all too common that when a business shuts down, you lose stuff you liked as well as the ones you didn’t care about.

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 1]

With only a 7 day funding period this isn’t likely to reach its target.

[iceeagle85Participant 4967xp 0]

And it was cancelled:

 

Hello,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who followed us and participated in this campaign. 250K remains a very nice sum and I am fully aware that many designers would love to reach these numbers. However, as high as it is, this amount would unfortunately not cover the development and licensing costs necessary for the successful launch of the range.

It is now more than obvious that the Beyond the Monolith offer did not attract enough pledgers to complete the project. I had high hopes for the concept and take full, personal responsibility for this failure. As I wrote yesterday on my Facebook page, I was unable to properly explain either the concept or the campaign. I thought the discount system was worthwhile and promising, but it quickly became obvious that it didn’t make sense to people and was not an appetizing incentive. I had hoped that the large drop in prices on existing models would outweigh negative reactions to offering duplicates. Again, this was a monumental mistake. I thought that setting a realistic funding threshold in relation to the project’s costs would express our respect and seriousness. [aa1] I made transparency and communication a priority and worked hard to explain the choices we made. Unfortunately, due to my poor language skills, I was only able to do this on French-speaking social networks.

Is a relaunch possible?

Yes. But it is now obvious that between BTM and Conan’s Adventure mode, the pledgers’ hearts are overwhelmingly with the latter.

If there is a relaunch, the offer will have to be completely revised. Put aside BTM (Who knows? Maybe in a few years, with some work and the right formula…), focus on Adventure Mode only (including Matt’s solo/co-op system), and give the Conan community what it wants.

I would also like to make it clear that Matt John continuously maintained that we should focus on Adventure mode. We often disagreed, but he has always been the voice of the community. He was right and I was wrong. When I took over the reins of Monolith, I mistakenly distanced myself from the community. He did not. Today, I wish I had listened to him. I know that he often took it upon himself to announce unpopular decisions that were mine. I would like to thank him publicly for his tenacity, which in the end convinced me that I was on the wrong track and that there was no point in being stubborn.

As far as I’m concerned, today, “down for the count”… But I will get back up. As many of you know, given the experimental nature of the campaign, I financed it entirely from my personal savings so as not to burden Monolith with the risk—I gambled and lost. “That’s Poker”

We have to proceed in order. Right now, I’m going to focus on getting Batman Season 2 properly delivered. Production has left China and is heading to the Hubs. Here’s the shipment schedule:

–  Australia (Aetherworks): The ship left China on January 13th and will arrive in Sydney on the 24th.

–  Canada (Snake n’ Lattes): The ship left China on January 9th and is expected to arrive in Toronto on February 5th.

–  Europe (Meeple Logistique): The ship left China on January 6th and is expected to arrive in Antwerp on the 31st.

–  USA (Fun Again): The ship left China on January 11th and delivery to Indianapolis is expected shortly after February 6th.

–  Asia: The shipment is being transported by truck to the VFI Asia warehouses and should arrive in early February.

Then, once the boxes have reached our pledgers, I will  launch the new Conan KS, which this time, I hope, will be what the community is looking for (I will listen Matt). It will most likely be a smaller, less ambitious campaign, but, after a fall, I prefer to get up slowly.

Thank you for your understanding and for all your support and feedback.

Fred Henry.

 

[tresilliianParticipant 2199xp 0]

I am not surprised at this. It was a completely misjudged money grab of a KS. They effectively were forcing previous backers to buy tons of duplicate minis if they wanted the new ones and gave them a whiff of a discount to make them feel special.

[limburger 21672xp 1]

I doubt it would have reached its target with a longer funding period.
You either get close to funding within the first week … or you don’t fund at all. The ones that manage to cross the line near the end tend to run into problems during production as they lack the buffer required for any estimate that is wrong.

I guess the simple fact that he funded it with his own money is probably why it still launched despite the comments and initial delay.

This wasn’t a money grab IMHO, because they could have set the goal at 80k … and then blame any issues on a variety of outside factors.

The fact that so many kickstarters have ridiculously low funding levels combined with endless stretchgoals is what makes it tough to judge whether the amount they’re asking is realistic.

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 0]

@limburger that’s not entirely true, I have backed several kickstarters that funded slowly through the duration of their campaigns.  However to hit 700k they would have needed a hell of a lot more time than 7 days.

My concern at the moment is that they haven’t learned the right lesson. The assessment that there is no appetite for the vs mode game isn’t true, there absolutely is an appetite for it.  I for one would love a set of vs rules based on the Conan mechanic that I could play with my existing (extensive) Conan miniatures collection.  But I am not prepared to pay €45 for a box of miniatures, 3/4 of which are duplicates of things I already own.  The paper only faction boxes (stat cards, map tiles but no miniatures) were a real half arsed solution to a problem – here’s the rules, you will have to proxy whatever you don’t have. Everything about it felt like past backers were not a consideration when really they should have probably been their primary consideration.  Start with a product that allows previous backers to get into the skirmish game with what they have, maybe throw a few additional new miniatures in for good measure but don’t sell people things they already own.  Once you have that nailed look at how you can then create an additional product for new backers, with no previous content, to get in on the act.

[slayerofworldsParticipant 3449xp 0]

Its canceled….

So everyone can stop complaining about the confusion.  Lol.

[limburger 21672xp 0]

@onlyonepinman true … it’s usually all about the momentum, can they keep getting money in at a rate that allows them to reach the goal.

I also agree that it’s not that people didn’t want the versus mode.
It’s that people that had backed any of the previous games didn’t get the things they needed that mattered most (which is the rules, tokens and stat cards). Additional minis via dedicated packages that provided the ‘missing’ pieces.

Then there’s the Batman owners who already have a versus mode, but might not want Conan.

I think a bare bones campaign (just the core set + stat cards for games released) with stretchgoals that cover additional ranges (like Zombicide or maybe even a DIY booklet for creating your own cards … ) would have done better.

@slayerofworlds it’s the internet … we’ll stop beating the dead horse when we find a new one 😉

[pafetikbazerka 9071xp 0]

What didn’t work for me was a discount to buy minitures I already owned wich would still be my money and space for stuff I didnt realy want to need. Limited cross over of minis between systems, ie Would I still have to think about wich minis I can use in adventure mode vs pvp, so still dealing with multiple umbrellas.  And the disconect and lack of consideration given to what many players might have already pledged for in prevous campaigns

If instead I had been offered a conan centric expansion to create pvp senarios and the cards to combine Pantheon mins in both both pvp and adventures along side conan and other IP’s (specificaly for me Zombicie Black Plague or Blood Rage) then I would have been on board. Ultimately I felt they were trying to sell me a big war game stuffed onto a small-ish board, when I was looking for 1 unbrella system that would be flexible enough to scale between adventure, skirmish and battle.

If there was any confusion it was how the staments and advertising didn’t meet expectations. I got the impresion I was going to be able to do more with all the minis I own but at the end of the day I if I wanted to buy into thier new pvp system my existing Conan and Pantheon was still going to sit on shelf collecting dust because I still had to buy into thier faction boxes to ‘maintain balanced armies’. And the legacy system they were offering was to use faction boxes in adventure mode when it should have been the other way round.

 

[onlyonepinman 18060xp 1]

@pafetikbazerka you hit the nail on the head.  The intention sounded like it was to breath new life into existing games by offering a new way to play with them.  And ultimately perhaps allow you to cross over between games.  What was sold was a new game but the only way in was to buy a truck load of miniatures that were the same as the ones I already own, thus dooming my existing miniatures to the very fate that BtM was trying to avoid – miniatures sat in boxes never seeing the light of day.

To be honest reuse has always driven my decision to back games. If I am going to lay out a large sum of money for some miniatures I want to know I have multiple uses lined up for them.  Could I use them in other tabletop skirmish games or RPGs.  If the answer is yes then I am more likely to back.  At the same time, that also makes me less likely to buy something twice – I want to get the maximum use of what I have, not keep buying more of the same.  So actually not being able to use my Conan miniatures in Beyond the Monolith skirmish games really isn’t going to doom my miniatures to a life sat in a box not being played with.

@limburger I hope its isn’t a dead horse, I hope they listen to what people are saying and come back with a new plan to bring the skirmish mode to the tabletop

[pagan8thParticipant 10745xp 0]

Project cancelled by creator.

[bubbles15Participant 2308xp 0]

What bothered me was it went to a platform with absolutely no downsides for the retailer.

The demand could be precisely controlled, preventing cost overruns.

There was no buyer protection because, at heart, kickstarter is an investment; not a sale.

The moulds already exist so it’s just the cost of casting which isn’t that much assuming they’re coming from China.

Asking for £100,000 a *day* is barmy considering all the onus, all the risk with limited rewards is on the customer.

[limburger 21672xp 0]

@onlyonepinman and if it is a dead horse we’re going to beat it until it starts breathing again … 😉

@bubbles15 given how fast some kickstarters have funded a realistic target and short funding period isn’t *that* barmy
The various Zombicide games have done close to a million in a day and their previous games reached similar amounts within a week …

You’re also forgetting that people (which due to taxes easily equates 2x their salary) + their office need to get paid during the year it takes to finish.  All of that needs to be paid by producing a product that has its own margin.

Kickstarters have been pretty bad at showing true costs of (boardgame)production because of the tendency to use stretchgoals to keep momentum and reach the actual funding required during the campaign.

The company I worked for needed 100k / month to stay operational … and that was a company focused on software development with a small team of 10 (so need to pay for machinery, 80% of cost is personell). So if you factor out the need to reserve money for emergencies and assume a complete failure to attract new customers that’ll be a mere 7 month extension before you close up shop forever.  But hey … let’s complain about the amount they dared to ask, right ?

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