Battletech vs Heavy Gear Blitz vs Heavy Gear Silhouette

[phaidknott 7023xp 2]

Bit torn….

I’m looking for a “mech” game, but not sure which way to go. Here’s my thoughts…

(A) BattleTech. Well known universe/background fluff, and new starter sets arriving. However downside is mini range is not as good as it once was since the FASA days, sculpts are “variable” is quality and posing. Most of the campaign books are out of print.

(B) Heavy Gear Blitz. Newer “streamlined” rules, minis now in plastic. But other than rulebook no other background material published for system.

(C) Heavy Gear Silhouette. Older RPG system with lots of fluff/army list/campaign books still available (so more advanced in paper products). But uses a system that intended for RPGs and small actions (although it’s supposed to scale up to larger battles), no experience of this, and not seen it played.

Pretty familiar with BT (well at least going back to mid 90’s), but no experience of Heavy Gear. Has anyone played these (particularly Heavy Gear using both Blitz and Silhouette), and able to give me some feedback?

Minis for both systems are pretty expensive, but the Heavy Gear ones seem a little nicer in quality (again not seen them to compare other than what’s on DP9’s website). Have seen the DP9 have a Pledge Manager open from the last Kickstarter still open (so you can pick them up for a little discount….but not sure after P&P and import duties vs buying from UK stockists).

Any help/advice given would be appreciated 🙂

[torros 23812xp 3]

I think for background I would always go with BT. I have never overly cared what the models look like so for me the sculpts etc are a low priority. For availability (I just checked) Ral Partha Europe has over 500 minis available to buy for BT.

 

I never really left the 3025 era for gaming BT as there is enough background to keep you going for ever in the lead up to the 4th succession wars.

 

Rules wise we did swap to Renegade tech which converted the old Centurion damage system to BT and makes for a much more interesting game although does make the games longer

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

Ah, I was looking at Ironwind Metals for the BT models 🙂

[limburger 21680xp 2]

Both Heavy Gear games are set in the same universe, so the RPG background is useful for both.

Whether the lists of the RPG are viable or even (tournament) legal in Blitz is a question I can’t answer.
In theory they should be (same universe), but the meta might play out differently.
However that is a problem that any wargame has.

Alternate suggestion : Adeptus Titanicus …

‘cuz if you already accept big stompy machines as viable, then taking it up to 11 isn’t that big a deal 😉

Battletech however has the advantage of having a turn based computer game that is quite good.
Saves a lot of work on buying miniatures, while still enabling immersion in the setting.

[mecha82Participant 10037xp 2]

It would be most natural to gravitate towards one that’s setting and lore you are already most familiar with. Besides BT basically has bigger fan base and wider lore with plenty of eras to choose from than either of HG games because it’s much older system that started back in 80’s and is still going strong to this day with new material being published by Catalyst Game Labs including brand new starter box. Then again I know very little about HG’s lore and setting than just that there is North and South on one planet fighting over that planet and some times they make alliance to fight against Earth.

Another thing how ever is do you care about sculpts because HG systems do that better than BT but on other hand in BT miniatures aren’t main thing. You see some don’t seem to realize that with BT those record sheets are units so you can you what ever you want as proxies if you don’t have actual miniatures for those units and no one really cares because all you need to know about those units is on those record sheets. Then again some miniatures are useful if you are going to play ion terrain rather than on terrain hex board like normal.

[angelicdespot 4689xp 3]

I’ve not played any of these games, but I do own most – perhaps all? – of the Heavy Gear RPG books and some of the Heavy Gear wargame books (possibly a mixture of Silhouette and Blitz as I bought them for the setting / fluff rather than the rules themselves).   My understanding is that the Blitz rules are a streamlined adaptation / evolution of Silhouette, so although they might not be tournament legal / directly compatible with each other, I’m sure you’d be able to understand books bought for one game even if you played the other.

I was never able to get into the Battletech setting, but I absolutely love the Heavy Gear one.   It’s a rich, interesting history with lots of opportunities for telling / setting fantastic stories.   I would highly recommend it.   It also seems to me that heavy gears make more sense from a science / ‘realism’ perspective than huge mechs or titans do.   i.e. being smaller, more nimble war machines they fit into a niche in a modern/futuristic setting better than giant building sized machines, however cool they look.

The ‘core’ Heavy Gear setting features two alliances as the two main protagonists: northern and southern groupings that are kind of reminiscent of NATO and the Warsaw Pact.   In the history of the setting they ally with each other when Earth invades, but after winning that war, decades of mistrust leads to them falling out with and going to war with each other.   The other two main playable factions in the main game are the remnants of Earth’s invasion forces (who have become integrated with a local ‘non-aligned’ Terra Novan faction) and the other major ‘non-aligned’ faction, Peace River.

As the storyline progresses Terra Nova links up with other planets in the network, which brings Earth forces back into the game, along with Earth’s allies drawn from the other colony planets, but I’m not sure how many of them are represented with miniatures in the current Blitz game.

[limburger 21680xp 3]

When you think about WW2 … that is just 5 years worth of history between 2 opposing forces.

That hasn’t stopped anyone.

HG is a few centuries more 😉

[koraskiParticipant 1981xp 2]

I much prefer the HG setting to the BT one. For me it’s mostly about realism. Granted any game about giant war robots is by definition unrealistic, but I feel the HG setting is more grounded and their technology and societies and reasons for fighting seem more believable.

Also I think someone on this site mentioned stocking HG in the UK so you may be able to find a local source and not pay shipping from Canada.

That said, I think the best thing is to see which game has more traction in the local area. Picking the better game won’t help if no one will play it with you.

[phaidknott 7023xp 1]

Well my area doesn’t have any BT players either (so it looks like I’d be buying two forces).

On the RPG books, how do the campaign/tactical packs shape up (are they a narrative campaign, how big are the forces)?

One thing I have found hard to find is video’s playing/explaining the game. I’ve been to Guerrilla Miniatures website (but like most of his lets plays it’s more dice rolling than explaining the game…it’s were the BoW videos shine in their take on lets play videos). And no real comparison on what Blitz gives vs Silhouette (lets face it, if you’re willing to play BT then the more complicated version of the rules in Silhouette isn’t off-putting).

But it also look like (alas) there’s no HG Blitz/Silhouette players here in BoW either.

I did find a UK stockist in ShinyGames (who also stock BT), and it looks like an army box of 15 plastic figs is about £50 (puts even GW to shame), however it’s about 50% less than buying the BT mechs…..

…so still not decided 🙁

[koraskiParticipant 1981xp 2]

I think the army boxes are pretty much all you’d need to play. I don’t recall ever seeing a HG game with more than 3 or 4 squads of 3-5 gears each. I recommend downloading the quickstart rules and the full “living” rulebook which are both available for free. You could easily proxy some space marines for Gears and try the rules out.

I mainly played the original RPG which was pretty simple compared to something like D&D. I have but never played the newer Silhouette version. I also played the original HG wargame which was clearly intended as an alternate to BT. It was played on a hex map and used carboard standees like the original battletech box game did. I liked it a lot and it tied in with the RPG flawlessly. The first edition of the Blitz rules turned it into a true tabletop wargame and seemed decent but I am in no way an expert on them. The new (second?) edition of Blitz is pretty different from what I can tell, but still a true tabletop wargame, ie no hex map.

The campaign books are very narrative. I also recommend the Story books if you are really interested in the lore. In brief, humans colonized the planet (Terra Nova) then for poorly known reasons Earth abandoned all its colonies and the people were left to their own devices. There were 2 “Interpolar Wars” which were basically world wars on Terra Nova plus 2 different invasions by Earth forces. There’s political and religious strife between and within the Polar federations. There are mysteries surrounding ruins and artifacts from (or possibly before) the original colonists. It is a very rich story that progresses over time.

<<EDIT>> I just realized I may not have answered your question very well. There were 2 editions of the original HG RPG followed by a 3rd edition that used DP9s universal RPG ruleset called Silhouette. In addition there was a boxed tactical boardgame very similar to the original BattleTech box game that had rules for playing out Gear battles and was compatible with the 1st and 2nd edition RPGs (similar to how Mechwarrior RPG and BT work together). Later they created Heavy Gear Blitz as a true wargame. That lasted for many years but recently they have moved to a 2nd edition of Blitz which is the current rule set. I don’t know if the Blitz rules are compatible with the Silhouette RPG rules or not.

[shinygamesParticipant 951xp 3]

As a player of all 3 and a stockist of the 2 games that are current, I’d say it depends how you like your games.

First of all, I’d not recommend Silhouette where Heavy Gear Blitz is also an option. Silhouette was a really clever system that led to some real issues in practice that they never really ironed out within that system. The dice tests were a bit too random for a wargame (or for an RPG for many people I think) and hitting well was always more important than what you hit with.

Heavy Gear Blitz is a much more mature version of that system that is a lot more measured – there’s still the opportunity to roll really well and get a great success, but the weapon types play a much more important part and each has a different feel to it without being stuffed with special rules. In terms of it being a “streamlined” version then the basic version – the demo game shown in the rulebook – is. However, the more advanced rules are far more involved than Silhouette was, or BattleTech for that matter. If the current ruleset has a weakness it’s the way these more advanced rules are laid out, but for me the fact that the basics are so intuitive more than cancels this out. Both the Quick Start Rulebook and the full Living Rulebook are available to download for free from dp9.com, so I’d recommend checking it out (Quick Start first) and see what you think.

The strength of BattleTech for me is that it is a slower war of attrition, and favours sound tactics in general rather than clever moves. Because everyone has a lot of armour and internal structure to blast off, there is seldom a sudden death (save for the odd lucky headshot), so it’s more of a game to savour and progress through without worrying so much about individual moves. I can’t really comment on the Alpha Strike version which is much quicker to play; as a fan of BattleTech, I find it difficult to go for anything that cuts corners, but given real life considerations like limited time I should really give it a go.

In terms of cost, as has been said by @koraski, the Heavy Gear Blitz army boxes do contain all you need to build and play a good-sized force. You certainly don’t need more unless there are specific Gears you like or you want to try out the combined arms aspect of the game more (and one of the army boxes does contain tanks and armoured infantry in any case). The 2 player starter box also gives you two army boxes plus a hardcopy rulebook at a significant discount.

For BattleTech, you might want to check out the Lance Packs that Catalyst do. I’m just in the middle of adding these into our store the last couple of days, so you might not have seen them. They’re plastic miniatures, but they’re under £10 for 4 Mechs, so they’re worth looking at. There’s 6 or 7 in total I think including some Mech’s I’ve not seen in plastic before, so they’re definitely worth looking at where you’re not too worried what Mechs you use.

As you have said @phaidknott, the problem with both these games is a lack of findable players. We are beginning to distribute Heavy Gear in the UK and Europe, and are planning a fairly busy schedule of shows and events over the next year, so I’d expect that situation to improve before too long. I expect the popularity of the BattleTech computer game and the long-awaited release of new starter boxes should hopefully do the same thing for BattleTech.

[phaidknott 7023xp 2]

Thanks for the info, I hate being on the fence as both BT and HG have their positives and negatives. Probably might go for HG (2 player starter set) as it’s a cheaper buy in 🙂

[angelicdespot 4689xp 1]

I’m fairly sure one of the main Dream Pod 9 guys has a BoW account – I’ve seen him post / answer questions on forum threads discussing various Heavy Gear Kickstarters.   Unfortunately, I can’t remember his name, and can’t seem to find any forum topics (which I think were all pre-switch to BoW 2.0).

[limburger 21680xp 1]

@angelicdespot : I think you’re right. i think they posted info on the HG Kickstarter themselves as well.

A quick google suggests it might be @critical as he’s the one commenting , but I could be mistaken :

Heavy Gear Blitz Starter Set Kickstarter Going Great Guns!

[angelicdespot 4689xp 1]

@limburger – it looks on that post like @critical is connected to DP9 but it’s definitely not who I was thinking of.   Unless he / she generated a new profile.   The handle of the person I’m thinking of was someone’s name.   Possibly R Dubois?   I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I remember seeing it and recognising the name.   It was in forum posts promoting ongoing kickstarters.   I remember checking – excitied to see some mention of the game / universe  – and realising / assuming that it was just trying to drum up awareness of the Kickstarter.

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