ACW

[torros 23816xp 0]

@oriskany

 

Johnny Reb is “clunky by today’s standards.”  Well, it’s been a while since I played Johnny Reb (honestly I don’t remember what edition it was), but generally speaking I feel too many of today’s standards are frankly way too slick, too simple, too catered to short attention spans.

 

Find it hard to disagree with this

[phaidknott 7023xp 1]

Johnny Reb can have four, five or even (in rare cases) six figures to a base, and five bases to a Regt (at least in 2nd Edition), for me I’d just advise not to play JR III (basically JR II gives a “tactical” game, whereas JR III is more of a strategy/grand tactics game…it’s the only way I can explain it briefly). JRII uses a fig ratio of 1:20 (how old school is that to talk about fig ratios 😀 )

For the 200 men Regts, these can be converged into a single “Brigade” unit (still looks like a Regt, even if it’s all made up of command stands 😀 ), same for Confederate units (ie the Stonewall Brigade seemed to remain at about 600 men during the mid war).  You just then play it as a Regt (basically units in JRII are between 400 and 600 men. which is pretty accurate as to what actually was in the field on the day).

I’ve got General de Brigade for playing Naps, and it gives a solid (if bloody) game, another is British Grenadier (GdB for the American Revolution (or the American War of Independence as it’s now known 😀 ), which gives a VERY good game and really drives home the need to keep troops “ordered” (and not running about all over the place like a headless chicken), both of these I use for their respective periods (although some of my group have been muttering about trying to convert British Grenadier for Nap gaming). I’ve not heard of an ACW version of GdB, but if there’s an ACW version of British Grenadier then I’d definitely give that a look.

Black Powder is basically “historical” Warhammer, if you enjoy Warhammer then you’d probably like this set of rules. Just like Warhammer it’s quick to play (totally disagree with generals acting as hero’s however and getting into combat). But if you leave all reasoning at the door to the gaming room some gamers do enjoy it).

@torros if anyone is willing to part with their copy, I’d be happy to hear about it (however I’m not crazy enough to pay collector prices for it). may have some other “retro rules” to trade for it for periods I no longer play (like Moderns for example) if they are interest (or cash I’m easy).

[oriskany 60771xp 1]

@phaidknott – great post, man.  And holy hell, am I with you on “how old school is it to talk about fig ratios” like 1:20.  Damn, I was on Beasts of War for almost six months before it finally sunk in that games today just don’t do that any more.  I kept asking about that aspect of these games I was reading about and kept getting perplexed replies from the community.

Great point about formation.  Keeping order in linear warfare is key.

“Black Powder is Historical Warhammer” – “Generals acting as heroes and getting int combat” … okay, I’m glad it’s not just me.  I was a little worried my earlier post might have sounded too harsh.

[smithscoParticipant 1212xp 2]

@oriskany I’m generally good with streamlined quick games that don’t give a ton of depth as long as I’m having fun with who I’m playing with. However, your assessment of Black Powder is dead on. Played it once with friends and we all felt it was bland and very unrealistic (this from a group that regularly does strange things like Macedonians v Samurai  v Urukhai…)

[torros 23816xp 0]

I was thinking of Pickett’s Charge rules that are written by the same person who wrote General D’Armee not GdB. Sorry for the confusion

[oriskany 60771xp 0]

You make a good point, @smithsco – at the end of the day the people you’re gaming with are the most important factors.  Some of the best games in my life have been with great people while we played games that may not have been the best systems.

And again, I confess once more – the opinions on Black Powder were based on a VERY short introductory pdf booklet that I think was 12-20 pages tops.  I have found YouTube videos reviewing a book that was clearly more detailed at 178 pages.  I have never seen that book and can’t really venture an opinion on it.

[torros 23816xp 1]

I know this is hijacking the thread a bit but all the talk of Johnny Reb reminded me if the old matchbox campaign system where multiple matchboxes were glued together and counters were placed and moved between them to simulate hidden movement. Anyone else use this?

[phaidknott 7023xp 1]

Funnily enough I have that EXACT setup to store my Johnny Reb counters (that’s about 30 years old too), long before we could get things like “Really Useful boxes” and carried our armies around in steel toolboxes 😀

@oriskany Yup, British Grenadier uses chits to show disorder, these can be gotten by moving/charging across difficult terrain, being shot etc. A unit collects these (up to a max of three), and can only be gotten rid off by standing still and redressing the lines. These chits give a minus to everything like firing, morale etc, and you also take “free” casualties by getting a chit for every casualty caused by being shot at (so you don’t actually start losing minis until you’ve collected 3 counters on the unit).

All in all it’s very good for linear tactics (like ACW), and forces players to slow things down and keep everything in good order to try and keep those chits away from the units. It does give the advantage to the defending units, but that’s the case in any period of history in any campaign (so it’s not “balanced” for things like competitive gaming, and more for refighting historical battles if that’s your thing). An excellent set of rules that could be easily converted to ACW and perhaps Naps (although that’s not quite as linear as the ACW was), and I’d recommend it as a buy to anyone (I think it’s still available, along with LOADS of scenario books) from Partizan Press here

https://www.caliverbooks.com/Partizan%20Press/partizan_BG.shtml

But I digress also from the original topic.

I’ve actually got a “stock” of about 3 sets of Johnny Reb that can be loaned out to my fellow gamers if they haven’t got a copy (they do usually end up buying them if they are into ACW), and it’s not regular, but it does turn up on ebay here on the UK now and again (a realistic price is about 20 quid with the counters, remember to check for that). It’s VERY common to see them for sale in the US for not a lot of money, and most GDW ANYTHING is worth a buy…almost everything they published was excellent.

 

[torros 23816xp 0]

I only played British Grenadier once and I think  it was the  first edition but remember it being a really good rulset

[torros 23816xp 0]

@phaidknott Do you have any idea how John Hills Across a deadly field compares to Johnny Reb?

[smithscoParticipant 1212xp 1]

All of this talk of rule sets really makes me want to get back into wargaming this period.

@oriskany I have the first edition rulebook and your assessment isn’t wrong.  I hold Black Powder responsible for killing Napoleonics, ACW, and the Franco Prussian war in my group.  We were excited to do Black Powder in those eras.  Our first game was a couple of French brigades with some cavalry and artillery in support facing off against a similar Prussian force in 1815.  We quit and haven’t played since when a single small Prussian Hussar unit made a death ride all the way across the map in the open in one turn, survived and then drove off an artillery battery.

[oriskany 60771xp 0]

@phaidknott – I love games with mechanics like you’re describing … mechanics that force the commander to choose between stability / safety and aggression / speed.  March your men too fast or order them to do too much, especially while taking fatigue, casualties, or damage … and the unit starts to fray around the edges.  You don’t see that too much in today’s gaming scene, too many individual-based skirmish WYSIWYG games – not enough “command tactical” unit-driven games.

I tell you what, I might have to check out this British Grenadier system.  I use (don’t laugh … it works) a tweaked version of TSR’s Battlesystem 2nd Edition for my American Revolution 20mm gaming.  I know it sounds crazy, and admittedly it only works to a certain scale (1:10 figures to men).  But for smaller engagements usually seen in the American Revolution, it’s not too bad.

That said, it’s kind of a stopgap.  A dedicated system that fits the bill might be in my future for when I take a break from Sitrep Moderns.  😀

“… so it’s not “balanced” for things like competitive gaming, and more for refighting historical battles if that’s your thing.”

Yes.  That is exactly my thing.  ALL my thing.  ALL I do … well, except Darkstar.  But that’s way off topic.

@smithsco – “… A single small Prussian Hussar unit made a death ride all the way across the map in the open in one turn, survived and then drove off an artillery battery …”

Yikes.  I wonder what the ghosts of the Light Brigade thought of that.   

Eh … That’s not how it happened for us at Balaclava.

🙁

But yes!  All this talk has me thinking about my old American Revolution tables.  Might have to clean off the dining room table and set this up again!

 

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

@torros Not played across a deadly field, but it didn’t cause the Johnny Reb II players to switch over to it (I think that’s evidence enough for me not to buy a copy to try it out). It’s hard to switch out from a ruleset you enjoy, and you tend to stick with it long after it’s gone out of fashion (which is why I keep so many sets at home for other younger players who’s never heard of it before).

Johm Hills written a lot of good rules, but they cater to different styles of gaming. His later sets of rules tended to focus more on playing BIG games on a small table and moved away from the Regt/Tactal games he did earlier (which many people enjoy, and they might not like the nitty gritty of the tactical game). It was sad the hear he died back in 2015, and we’ll not see another set from him again.

 

[phaidknott 7023xp 0]

@oriskany Just get a set second hand if you can (or try and find a game with someone who owns a set). Not many have heard of it, because …well…. AWI isn’t played a lot these days (hell anything pre WW2 isn’t played a lot). Partizan Press have also done 6 scenario books for the AWI and British Grenadier and many feature battles with OOBs for those smaller battles you describe and use a 1:10 figure ration for those refights (with oresumably a few modifications to the rules. I’ve not got them myself (we leech off another player), but I know it’s done and the battles we’ve fought using the books have been good, well researched and mostly fun to play (if we can convince the British players that Loyalist Milita DID exist and they really need to get some (as this restricts the battles we can play 😀 ).

[torros 23816xp 0]

@phaidknott I’m sure you already have them but I saw all the Charge magazines are available on Wargames Vault

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