A question probably only John can answer (pintel mounted MGs).

[phaidknott 7024xp 1]

Something that’s always been on my “eventually I’ll find the answer to this” for many years…..

 

Always wonder “how” pintel mounted MGs (on tanks, jeeps, APCs etc) are stowed when the vehicle is moving and not being actively operated. Are they “locked” in position (companies like Battlefront always have them at a perfect horizontal), or are they left alone with the breech end (sorry for the terminology here, as I’m not really a gun nut, the end where the bullets DON’T come out off) naturally weighing the gun with the barrel pointing up?

 

No idea here, as I’ve seen photos with the MG in both positions (although presumably the gun would have to be “locked” somehow rather than just bouncing around forming a hazard to friend and foe alike). If they are locked in position, how is this done?

 

Cheers to anyone able to answer this one (as an re-enactor or ex military), it’s something that pops into my mind again and again every time I see a photo of a US Sherman or Jeep. I keep meaning to find out the answer, but then get distracted by something shiny (and I never follow things up). But today is different, I am hoping that finally this “niggle” that’s been somewhere at the beck of my mind gets answered and I finally find out (If I’ve been able to ask the question in a coherent manner).

[johnlyonsParticipant 5331xp 3]

A great question! I love it.
So…Here I go…

On the typical mounts of US tanks, halftracks etc, the gun itself is mounted on a cradle that holds the gun in two locations (front and rear) with two locking pins. The cradle is then held within a hinged mounting roughly in the middle of the length of the gun (roughly along the balance point of the gun to make it lighter to move around) the cradle also carries the ammunition box mount, allowing it to move vertically with the gun and not twist the ammunition belt.

The cradle itself has it’s own locking pin that, indeed, locks in in the horizonal position, and only horizontal! The mounting point for the cradle and mount assembly has it’s own traverse lock but that isn’t in a fixed position, so the gun can be locked in traverse at any point in its 360 degree motion.

(this image shows the m2 pint mount with cradle and locking pins in place. the lowest little handle with the chain hanging fro mit is the horizontal locking pin.)

When the gun (in this case the .50 m2) is not in use it can be stowed externally on the vehicle after being removed form the pintle mount and placed within its own canvas bag. On some US used Sherman tanks you’ll see the stowage points on the turret rear. Alternatively some Shermans had turret roof “travel locks” which is a bracket that rises up to clamp the barrel of the gun to face forward on the turret roof and keep it clear frm the commanders and loaders hatches.

As an aside, all tanks and vehicles with pintle mounts will usually carry the ground mounts (usually tripods) for all mounted machine guns.
I hope this helps! Most pintle mounts act and work similarly (German pintle mounts are weird because German)

[grantinvanman 2225xp 1]

Both; there is usually a method of having the weapon stabilized but ready for action. If doing a long non-action road move, the weapon can be dismounted.

Leaving them pointing up runs the risk of overhead fouling – trees, wires, etc.

I was a serving armoured officer.

[limburger 21760xp 1]

Not sure how realistic this would be during war-time, but in these images show pintle mounted guns locked into position with a canvas (?) cover.

AFAIK a few vehicles had the guns dismounted, but I don’t have any images of them, because I was more focused on watching the parade.

[johnlyonsParticipant 5331xp 2]

out of combat and in bad weather they would certainly have had the covers on the guns.

[grantinvanman 2225xp 1]

Also for dusty road moves, covers are essential.

[phaidknott 7024xp 0]

Cheers for all the answers chaps, I’ve “almost” got it……

 

So we’ll stick with the .50 Cal mount for now (to try to keep things simple, I like simple). So we’ve got two locking pins (one for horizontal and one for vertical). Now if I’ve see photos of one mounted on a Sherman, if it’s parallel to the ground does that indicate it’s “locked” (or could it be locked at any angle)? Also all the images I’ve seen of the MG mounted on the turret of a Sherman show the gun pointing forwards, but the mount is actually to the rear of the TC’s hatch. So wouldn’t it have made more sense for the gun to be locked pointing backwards (to allow the TC easier access to the gun and to unlock these locking pins), or why did they lock the MGs pointing forwards?

 

The info on the dust covers was news to me, I don’t think I’ve seen a model in any scale with a cover on a pintle mounted MG (Sherman or any other AFV). Why is this never an option I wonder…

 

I’m only asking as I’ve got a M48 kit to construct (so it’s for the Vietnam era, so it’s not only a pintle mounted MG, but it’s a pintle mounted MG on a cupula). So I’m trying to work out how this would have been locked/position when not actively manned (plus I’ve got to work out if it would have had the “heavy” barrel, or the normal one as the guns were removed from the cupula and stuck on a pintle mount as a field modification). I’ve always wondered how this all worked as I imagine the belt ammo would be bouncing around as the vehicle was moving (or was the belt not fed, and the ammo was just locked in the ammo box). It’s such a small thing, but it’s also rather “complicated” once you start looking into it (or it’s complicated to me). Plus it’s my first AFV kit in 30 odd years (previously it was Airfix kits with those ‘orrid plastic/rubber tracks that NEVER fit right).

[sundancer 43047xp 1]

Most pintle mounts act and work similarly (German pintle mounts are weird because German)

I heard that! @johnlyons

For what it’s worth: in my time in the Bundeswehr if a vehicle had a hatch for a gunner there was a mounting point for the MG3 where the bi-pod legs would go in normal operations. Most of the time, when the hatch was closed the MG3 was stored inside. Only when we did things like a TacEval it would remain outside and there is a bracket to fix the back end of the MG3. And a cover that goes over everything for keeping it nice and clean. That’s how we had it on the Mercedes Benz 2t MilGl, MB 1017 TmilGL and the bigger 5t, 7t, and 15t MilGl by MAN.

[Author]

Posts