Weekender XLBS: What Makes A Good Wargame Review?
August 18, 2019 by crew
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Happy Sunday!!!
It’s the XLBS Show!
Happy Sunday Brothers and Sisters of CoG!!!
What has the gang been up to while recovering from the big weekend?
I deffenetly want to see more Dr. Dave (@lafayette), he has always been entertaining while presenting FoW to us all.
Also, I would really like to see @warzan post up his version of ’40k Lite’. I might be able to use that to get some of my non 40k friends to try the game. Who knows, I just might get some of them interested enough to try the main game!
About time Saga got a mention. Yesterday’s Saga-free zone almost drove me to dispair. I blame a distinct lack of Llyod and Gerry.
Brother Lloyd
good morning everyone, time for coffee and the XLBS weekender?☕️?⚔️?
Well that was a shit show this week
I think the new community norms dictate that you’ve got to watch the episode at least 20 times before you can make that statement! 😉
I pay £3.79 a month so I’m entitled to say this sort of thing
Happy Sunday!
Right from the bat I’ll mention 3 characteristics of a good review:
1) Transparancy – what relationships or arrangements exist with the provider that may influence the review, Including paid promotion, existing advertiser, other commercial arrangements (being a reseller or provider of other services).
2) Impartiality – as a group but also individually with personal opinions
3) Honesty.
Without these three characteristics anything else is meaningless!
4) be thorough and examine every part of the game. Ideally list pros and cons for everything.
opening the box and recapping the advertising blurbs is not a review (too many videogame ‘reviews’ fall into this category already 🙁 )
My opinions on reviews mostly come from my music obsession but the most important thing about a review is actually being knowledgeable enough to give an informed opinion and despite what people think, most people are not knowledgeable enough to review something (yes, I am a snob when it comes to this – listening to death metal for 2 weeks means your opinion on the matter counts for nothing to me). These days I won’t go near a music review, as most of the reviews that are written these days are shite because the people doing the reviews simply have… Read more »
I’d argue that there are two parts to a review : (1) the pure mechanical objective side that can be quantified and measured (2) the subjective aka artistic side that is 100% personal opinion Music reviews are tricky, because it requires an understanding of musical theory in order to appreciate the objective qualities of a composition. It makes it (IMHO) impossible to make them accessible to newbies. Boardgame revies don’t require such things, unless statistical analysis are a part of the review … and that’s something I haven’t seen anyone even attempt except at the hardcore tournament level where people… Read more »
@warzan would there be a “demand” for a generic hobby weekend? So rather than 40k, bolt action etc a “bring your hobby to the beasts” so people have a chance for a dedicated weekend of hobby to do there their stuff potentially with Jon, Mennes and/or Romain as support or assistance (obs the rest of you as well but naming the dedicated painters/modellers linked to OTT). I know it adds peeps travel cost as they are shipping stuff there and back but it would mean I am not adding a “new” army necessarily (unless I chose to and wanted do… Read more »
An agnostic hobby weekend could work well
Personally I think it wouldn’t work as well since it would be chaotic and isolate people into groups. For example if everyone is working on 40K then the guys can go through the projects or people can jump on a Community Livestream knowing exactly what they’re getting and can actually take part. However if some people are doing 40K they isolate themselves from the guys doing Historicals or Fantasy and rather than One big Weekend I think it would become a whole lot of separate and less fun groups all of whom just happen to be using OTT as a… Read more »
I think it depends on the attendees… I have no interest in 40k but I can appreciate the hobby work, the skills and techniques applied. There is a danger of cliques forming I don’t dispute but if people go expecting a broad church then maybe it gives someone the opportunity to chat to someone about something they hadn’t considered before- take Justin and is 10mm Dwarves – many will say 28 and no smaller until they get a chance to look at it close up… I don’t argue against the financial implications, and would say the crew know how to… Read more »
I think the scenario of NOT buying a ‘set value product’ from the OTT shop but using their Hobby Temple for the weekend would be a bit like walking into a very nice Restaurant and sitting down at a table and then unpacking a lunch or supper that you brought from home. Then expecting the staff of said restaurant to provide you with service as though you had bought your meal there. We no longer have a hobby shop here in town, because folks were buying their armies and models from other sources and then showing up to use the… Read more »
Many abusers don’t appreciate the total value being offered by stores like you mention. No they don’t quite match online only prices, but then those sellers aren’t providing them with tables, support and an available local community.
In my dearly departed local store some customers were doing that and then had the gall to moan when the owner started charging table fees unless you bought product from the store (he also. knew who the hard-up customers were and looked after them).
Just to clarify I do not think OTT shouldn’t be compensated for a hobby weekend and I would rely on them deciding if it was feasible financially, content wise, demand etc etc etc. There should be a cost for the use of services and in my suggestion I did assume there would be a cost for participation as with other weekends/boot camps that would cover this. As I did say in my first reply “I don’t think for a minute it would be a free event”. My following point about vouchers etc was intended as a link to the bits… Read more »
I can appreciate your point and the main point of this thread. As was stated in my project for the 40k weekend I am a novice at 40k, now I have some stuff to be sure but I have never played a game and only painted a little. (A rant for the project when I get a bit farther towards completed) The weekend allowed me to: 1) stretch my legs into sci-fi 2) deep dive into a project, I learned a lot on using the system. 3) try new techniques and tricks on models I wanted to succeed with but… Read more »
I think these weekends need focus. A random unfocused weekend : – would make it tricky for viewers to decide if it is worth watching at all – gives the crew presenting nothing to direct visitors to. – makes it tricky to find interesting items to produce I do think that there need not be a focus on a specific game. A generic WW 2 hobby weekend could work as that gives a way to manage expectations. I think that’s why the Desert War and D-Day bootcamps were interesting even to those not interested in the specific systems used during… Read more »
Potentially a bit more warning – always feels the events are announced with a short turn around time. I appreciate this puts increased pressure on you chaps, but if I have to see my in-laws (and I would) I need a good run up to it!!
Especially announce when the cut of dates are going to be for posting overseas.
This time we were only told after the cutoff date was past. So those of us that were dithering or thought we had more time were caught by surprise.
warren and Llyod you should look at these as we use these for recording and the quality is excellent for what we use them for.
RØDE Wireless Go Compact Wireless Microphone System
https://www.amazon.co.uk/R%C3%98DE-Wireless-Compact-Microphone-System/dp/B07QGGBNMN/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=65526009822&gclid=CjwKCAjw7uPqBRBlEiwAYDsr1zGNEe54t_IMUScas5KJn7Z0vB039fbgaEwcpK3TfrFFOfcoQUN4HxoC_3UQAvD_BwE&hvadid=338769558230&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1006948&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=7235410755270054673&hvtargid=aud-615477028318%3Akwd-697917495064&hydadcr=5057_1827816&keywords=rode+wireless+go&qid=1566112099&s=gateway&sr=8-1
I think I’m going to snag some of those units. Rode has never disappoint me yet.
Thanks for the link @grimwolfuk
They are really good and compact as well
Nice show guys, good discussions as always, thoroughly enjoyed the yeah ,but no, but yeah its a bit shite
Did @Warzan request more bikkies ??
Happy Sunday fellow CoGs
Very good show guys. I really enjoyed the Hobby Weekend and would love to do another. @warzan come on man he couldn’t be a Vampire. We all know Vampires cannot cross running water or the Ocean unless in a boat and if the boat sinks he’d be killed. The event is extremely creepy though. Age of Magic should absolutely be renamed “Age of Fantasy” because wow does it disappoint in the magic department. I think I can safely say that having spent a lot of time with Age of Magic while making “Age of Plasma” (you can get it free… Read more »
I here about ‘elitism’in historicals like it’s nowhere else… but its rampant in certain 40k groups. Its also not about the genre of the hobby but about personality types. Regardless of that, historicals, by nature, relate to a historical period. If something doesnt follow that historical period… then it’s not historical. If you release a historical game and it has elements in it that didn’t exist in the historical setting… well then it’s not historical and ‘elitist’ people will likely point it out. Rightly so, as otherwise people can end up with the wrong impression of a historical subject. I’d… Read more »
Good Points and I guess I was being a tad unfair. The Reason Elitism constantly comes up is because it’s the ONLY toxic Problem with Historicals. 40K and all the Rest have a lot of Meta Gamers who build insta win lists (like the guys at 40K Tournaments who conceed if they lose the first turn roll off) or Alpha Strikers which drive people away whereas we just have the Elitists. So we should be thankful it’s the only real issue. There’s a difference between pointing out non historical things (like I did with SPQR) and saying someone is wrong… Read more »
I understand why people find Saga:AoM underwhelming, it’s down to raised expectations from a combination of experience with other higher fantasy games and the prominence of the M word in the title. In its defence… don’t underestimate just how powerful in Saga the ability to drop a fatigue token on a unit is. Games like saga aren’t “my dice pool is bigger than yours” dice-offs, they’re about being able to weave an effective turn out of the resources available (including dice on the gameboard). Add to that the ability to mess your opponents plans and possibilities through magic and it’s… Read more »
Have to agree with Piers on that point – elistism is certainly rampant in 40k as much as any other game/genre
Indeed, try playing 40K using non GW figures and you’ll get a similar response to if you are trying to play a WW2 game with some of the “weird ww2” figures. But sometimes people need to remember it a two way street when playing a wargame (and the expectations thereof). If I’m playing an historical battle I expect to see figures/armies that were there on the day (well other than proxying say Napoleonic Russions for Prussians as your group may not have enough figures), and I wouldn’t expect to see someone come along with Seven Years War figures or a… Read more »
In regards to the 40k weekend I thought the audio was fine. Maybe something different was needed in between the segments rather than fan cam ( I apologise for the heresy. I will do my penance later) or at least shorter periods of fan cam. Maybe these segments could be used for talking to attendees or returning old hobby lab segments and leave what was the live segments to discussions on converting, looking at projects etc.
The fan cam gave me time to do some hobby of my own.
I can’t multitask when I’m watching tv and need to do tasks that are either dangerous (like cutting sprues) or need accuracy.
I’m the other way around. I prefer something like this on the screen while I hobby. Nothing that demands I stay glued to the screen, but something I can listen to and look up at when I want to. So BoW content, live streams of hobbying and sometimes playing. When I run out I put on old episodes of MST3K. Those movies are too bad to pay attention to, but the quips are good background chat.
The 40k weekend last week also helped me delve further into converting. Yesterday marked the first time I’ve ever bought a model, with the intention of cutting it up to use with a completely different model. I’m using the idea from the lad last week who made a tech priest using the Night Haunt king model. Absolutely loved how it looked and want to do my own, with my own spin on it. I’m really sorry, cant remember what your name was, but thank you. As for your games for your kids Warren, I think they are an absolutely great… Read more »
The Sperm……..Just-In! ???????????????
Happy Sunday guys I am not sure reviews should be a thing at all when it is a matter of opinion rather than a matter of fact. I think Play Throughs should be as far as people go, that way you can see the game and the interaction between the parties to get a better understanding of a product and determine whether you would like to try or purchase said product. Far too often now reviews are in the realms of the person that doesn’t like something rather than those that do. I am beginning to wonder if there is… Read more »
Gaz was a pleasure to meet you last weekend! Very much enjoyed the whole weekend, everyone was awesome, and the Diet Coke flowed freely! 100% agree with you on the review thing, I do like to watch something to see how it plays or works and to make up my own mind to see if i think i would like it! A review for me is good for other products here and there to get an idea on durability, feel and quality of items. (thank you Amazon reviews!) I do also agree with the original Bolter idea for the store,… Read more »
Good times buddy and we definitely helped their Diet Cike sales 🙂
You only have to look at the Welsh rugby team to know the Welsh all share the same 2 or 3 names so Hugh Williams is just a coincidence – if it had of been anywhere else in the world, I’d be off to Mass to steal a crucifix and fill my water bottle from the font! Warlord Games already do a WW2 Nazi Vampire and a British Vampire Hunting Officer so the models are there for Justin to do his Vampire in WW2 stuff! Also will blowing up a Vampire actual kill it? It might put it out of… Read more »
That was going to be my response too – is Hugh Williams the Welsh equivalent of John Smith? 🙂
Good morning everyone, happy Sunday
As for the 40k weekend my son and I joined remotely and we felt very involved with the wider community that came into the stream, what we missed was being involved with those in the room… Whilst everyone loved fan Cam it was a bit dull for us.
Discord is a good idea, maybe a larger hangout, squad streaming, hosting/raiding during downtime so the audience does not have to take action…. Lots of small things could be done to improve it.
Morning all! My feedback on the 40k weekend was that it was fantastic. On the Monday morning I really missed it. I missed getting up, putting on the stream and being part of the event. Given this is the first time you’ve done anything live on this scale I thought you did a cracking job. Fancam was cool – it got a bit samey after a while as people were in pretty set places in the hobby lounge but it did as was intended and it was good to feel connected whilst hobbying by having it on live. The fancam… Read more »
Negative Reviews We don’t need to hear you say things are shite. We don’t need definitive reviews after 100 play throughs. We need to know you can and are willing to say things are bad if you feel that way. We want your honest opinions and feelings on a game, given the context of how much time and experience you have put in to them. Lloyds opinons on S:AOM today are helpful. He’s not found the enjoyment yet, but he still wants to. Thinks the magic system is lacklustre, but that might be that he’s just not ben playing with… Read more »
I’d be keen to stream morning and night for 2-3 hours once a month. Between the whole Community I think we could get something going especially with members like @oriskany who basically streams games every weekend and @laughingboy The main issue is just working everything out and making sure we can actually do it and that people are going to be watching the streams. Trust me when you’ve got 10 people watching you and no one in the chat it gets pretty tedious to stream however if you’ve only got 1 person watching and they’re engaging with you it’s a… Read more »
Thanks, @elessar2590 . 😀 Yeah, Sitrep Podcast streams twice a week, Thursdays and Sundays. https://www.twitch.tv/sitreppodcast/ We’ve only been hosted on OTT once (Falklands Air War) – not sure why that is, I’m guessing we’re always streaming when the office is closed? No worries. 😀 Streaming and hobby at the same time, without assistance or a production team, or even worse … wargaming during a stream … it’s a challenge. But it’s totally worth it because it totally engages with our community in a very direct way. We don’t just talk about games with you, you don’t just WATCH us play… Read more »
Hi @lawnor you hit it on the head, Saga: Age of Fantasy not Age of Magic completely agree, also the monsters are a great addition but need to be more powerful
Hmmmm.Having now watched the show in it’s entirety I’ll give you my 2 cents worth; Bring back the community comments show/segment. It was an interesting perspective. I’d also love to see community members brought in via skype like Ben to fill in vacant chairs. Negative reviews on product are fine so long as they are fair. Other games shows like ‘the Dice Tower’ regularly deliver honest reviews trashing new products. The reality is that shows like yours act as filters for the community which has limited time and money and is relaying on you to show them the pros, cons… Read more »
I too liked the comment show, but only you saying it reminded me it was a thing for a while…. Perhaps because it was so short lived?
Hmmm, if you are going to have critical reviews then you better not have anyone from the company there with you as you will not say anything about their game. When you have your guests, everyone is the best thing since sliced bread and awesome, sometimes you see Justine struggling with a game but will always put a positive spin on it. You even change your mind as to whats good or not, example: Kings of War is awesome as you get to activate your entire army in one go all the time, then you get an alternate activation game;… Read more »
I don’t watch the lets plays for this very reason.
I watch other channels’ content for reviews.
Happy Sunday all
Good to have an XLBS again, feels like ages since the last one! Been feeling a bit flat on the hobby front this weekend, plenty to do but lacking desire to do it, so this was a good way to keep up the levels
As far as reviews go, think I said it on the thread – I’d rather have a bit more depth to a review than just remove packaging and be told how shiny something is, as it may very well be a well-polished turd! 🙂
Good morning, I must admit that the problem I had with both Mantic and Privateer Press was that although I enjoyed both the games and settings their use of resin in their miniatures quite put me off. I don’t know if the resin or moulds were of a cheap or poor quality but I seemed to spend more time trying to scrape off the mould lines (mostly unsuccessfully) than I did painting. This gave me a very negative opinion of both companies and even though I spent a very enjoyable day at a Mantic open day and have nothing but… Read more »