Weekender XLBS: Burn Your Rulebooks!
February 16, 2020 by dignity
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strange… i was attracted to a nothing vid for XLBS!
Me too.Just got here too early i guess.
Well, I’ll join this que line and wait for the OTT Theater to open up.
Guess I’ll grab some snacks from the lobby while I’m waiting……..hope they have nachos with extra jalapenos!
At last………..it’s the XLBS Show!
Greetings brothers and sisters of CoG.
Sit back and enjoy the show.
and NO………..I shall not be burning my rulebooks!
I look forward to seeing the progress of the rule set @warzan and team OTT have been hammering out in this episode. Lots of interesting ideas.
*drums fingers on tabletop*
*hits F5*
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*hits F5*
*hits F5*
*hits F5*
*hits F5*
*hits F5*
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*drums fingers on tabletop*
you guys are such teases
Happy Sunday!!
Happy Sunday
Warren, you should have a look at Tribal, those rules are near to your idea.
Happy Sunday! Yay!
Happy Sunday! At least I’ve made page 1 today!
Stat cards around the mat edge saving constant flicking through books of tables have always been preferable. Maybe Infinity will take the hint for N4 or will I have to make my own again… they’ve done them for Defiance which are already downloadable.
Interesting discussion. I like the idea of the double sided unit cards to show the difference between fresh and fatigued. I think it would give a better feeling to the combat rather than alive or dead after one turn
I don’t think theres anything wrong with having a QRS which describes the more common factors within the game
I am interested how the rules would deal with something like Sejuk Turk shoot and retire tactic
Cheers @torros
any chance you can expand on these
Sejuk Turk shoot and retire tactic
So I can understand them a bit better?
It pretty much the old Parthian tactics. Light horse bow men would ride in fire at the enemy and retire and do this continuously wearing the enemy out knowing that the crusaders could catch them and getting them to a state wear heavier troops could finish them off
I have the same Crusades book myself and I’m sure its describes it in detail during the advance of the first crusades through Anatolia
the simplest way would be to either give a free fire at the end of their first move, or to make their second move the same distance as their first so they don’t get caught retiring.
Of course a lot will depend on the motivation/fatigue tracker
The idea of double side cards for units was done in Fallen Frontiers 1st ed. It was an interesting concept that Scale 75 were using, just a shame that the rest of the rules were not up to scratch for that edition.
Have A Great Weekend!
It’s a real pity that Warren is so against apps as I can see a lot of what he wants to do – hiding complexity, remove tokens from a playing field, units changing effectiveness during the battle, etc – could be done with an app.
You also need to know how to make an app which I’m sure is pretty complicated in itself
I have a pretty profound aversion to apps in tabletop gaming. And yes I accept it’s based on principle and is completely unreasonable lol But what I love about tabletop games is that they are purely analogue. I would find a game from 50, 100 perhaps even 2000 years ago and just play it anywhere anytime pretty much. It’s easier for me to play a game of Senet than it is to play a game of PPHammer. 🙂 To me all the good will in the world to keep apps ‘open source’ etc does not guarantee their longevity And I… Read more »
If you’re not going to have a rulebook then you’re not going to need an app.
I can see an app as a way of organizing and printing those unit cards though.
Maybe even an interactive version of the unit card to use during battles as an alternative to printed variants.
I’m determined to help you change your mind. Gimme a few months… 😉
I would highly recommend Leaders by Rudy Games. It uses an app, but it adds new features to the game, rather than making the game board redundant (high Golem Arcana!).
To create a (good) app for a game you need to be able to do it on paper anyway. Complexity is never a good solution to a problem. You can change combat effectiveness during battle without an app. Hex&counter wargames have used blocks that visualised reduced combat effectiveness for decades. 40K uses a simple table for vehicles/monsters with a new stat line for every x points of damage. It might not have the resolution available to a spreadsheet, but that doesn’t mean it is not good enough. Never mind that computers suck at random number generation (it’s why encryption programs… Read more »
Back when I was a computer programmer (30+ years experience, so I understand a lot of what you are saying), I was always trying to look for elegant ways to hide some of the complexity from the user. There are both good and bad ways of doing this. The rules for the game will have to be written down; I presuming that Warren wants to minimise the number of pages in the rules and any accompanying army lists – putting as much as needed on to cards without making it too complex. Otherwise Justin is right, the easiest way to… Read more »
if you need someone to explain the rules then the rules are lacking in clarity. The sole reason GW has such a thick rulebook is that they insist on having a ton of different names for a rule that is the same (orbital drop has at least one variant per faction). Some people like that kind of flavour, but IMHO it is a waste of space and it creates needless confusion. And then they go and give practically every unit at least one ‘special’ rule, which creates complexity where none is needed. I suspect part of that is the result… Read more »
A bit of clarification here please..
“The effective list of rules should be short enough to fit on a unit card.”
Are you saying that the rules can be written on a single card (you do use the word “a”) or what would be the table of content for a rulebook?
I am saying that whatever rules (and stats) are needed to use a unit should fit on the unit card itself. So if a unit can used ranged attacks, but there are specific limitations (like reloading) or advantages (like a bonus when attacking from a certain range) that info should be on the card, etc. This is effectively what Warrens’ “no rulebook” restrictions is. He could write his game in a traditional rulebook + army list format, but to play the game you’d be constantly looking for info on how a unit operates. By writing only the rules and stats… Read more »
Happy Sunday ……………posted 12 hours ago ?? It was still Sunday morning then, my Happy Sunday would have had a damn sight more authenticity …. keep it there next week.
In case no ones answered this, @warzan show is Rise of Empires: Ottoman.
Nail Polish Lacquer Shaker Mixer from Black Magic Craft (Uk Shop)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07G84M2NR/?coliid=IQ5TAXXZPMFCM&colid=1JW6YYR0C8CUR&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
For future reference Justin, Crack is a cocaine based product, essentially it’s cooked with a binder such as Baking Soda or some such. In any effect it’s not good for you so I recommend avoiding it. Stick to coffee and jammie dodgers these are much better for you.
Happy Sunday, glad you’re back. Great discussion for the no rule book game thoroughly enjoyed that, I believe that my kids and I could get into that one, can’t wait to see how it progresses.
If you wanted to simulate the effect of a unit previously being engaged in a turn and therefore not as well able to react to a flank attack or rear. Why not just have a Melee action that triggers after the unit has been involved in its first Melee?
Or you were talking about tracking fatigue, so after a Melee the unit goes to its degraded state and is therefore more vulnerable to attacks?
@warzan they are eyewateringly expensive, but apparently GOD hands clippers are designed to be ultra smooth in their cutting so require little pressure. Price is up there with vortex mixers though I believe.
? all we are saaaaayin ?
? is give 2ps a chance ?
Zip ties. Jigsaw. Bzzzzt. Perfectly mixed, smooth-as-silk paint 😉
if you have a jigsaw that is … otherwise it’s as expensive as a vortex mixer 😉
I can’t post a photo in the comments but since being reminded of the snippers thing, I got busy on the laser cutter this morning. A high-torque metal-geared servo, some mdf and a pair of snips all bolted together makes a brilliant Heath Robinson set of snips. I’ll try to get some photos this evening….
1hr in, wasn’t Justin right but for warmaster? It’s been awhile since I read the rules but it rings a bell?
@warzan,why not make an app to track stuff rather than tokens or a slider… ?
Great shows this weekend, and I’m watching the Sunday show on Sunday for a change!
I’m really liking your idea of the game @warzan
As an American, I can say with authority that crack is not an opiate.
Correct, crack is crystallized cocaine which is cheaper to produce and distribute. Opioids are poppy based such as the brand name Heroin.