Tactical Warfare In The Fantasy Genre: An Exploration Of Battlesystem [Part One]
July 17, 2017 by oriskany
Good afternoon, Beasts of War. Today we’re kicking off a new article series, one that may be a little out of the norm for the material I typically produce. Recently I travelled to Canada for a visit with my friend Craig (BoW: @cpauls1), where I had the opportunity to try a genre of wargaming with which I’ve had very little experience: Fantasy.
Now I know what you’re thinking. For those who know me and my work, my typical idea of “fantasy wargaming” would be a team of Hawaiian bikini models with an insatiable thirst to play “Panzer Leader.” But as Sam used to say in his previous article series, it’s never a bad thing to try something new, and expand your wargaming horizons.
The experience was amazing, and now Craig and I have collaborated to co-author this series of articles to chronicle the tale. We’ll be looking at the rules system used (TSR’s Battlesystem 1st Edition), the armies in play, and the background setting for the game we played (Craig’s novel “The Sun and the Saber”), available on Amazon Kindle.
We’ll also be looking at how Fantasy compares and contrasts against other genres of wargaming (it’s surprising how much they share in common), and how Battlesystem compares against other fantasy wargaming systems like Kings of War, Warhammer Fantasy Battle, etc.
For this game (depicting a battle from the plotlines in his novel and potential sequels), Craig had spent months building a massive set of fantasy armies and gaming table, all of which was put into action during my visit. A half-dozen local gamer also attended the event, some tactical wargamers, others from the fantasy RPG world.
This is one of the great things about Battlesystem. Both 1st and 2nd Editions allow players to easily convert their favourite AD&D characters into “commanders”, “heroes”, and other important battlefield figures like priests and mages, and “role play” in the context of a gigantic “Lord of the Rings” scale battle.
So some of us that day were playing as hardened tacticians, some of us as free-wheeling RPG characters with veteran, high-level, immensely powerful characters with abilities that allowed them to rival whole units of hundreds of enemy soldiers.
Speaking for myself, I naturally fell into the more tactical side of the spectrum. I was given a brigade commander to play as my “character,” but really I was just trying to apply tactics I knew from ancient and medieval warfare in order to manoeuvre my army as best I could. The magic I would have to leave to my more RPG/AD&D-minded teammates.
A Word From The Gamemaster...
Craig Reviews Battlesystem
Battlesystem ticks all the right boxes for our group, particularly the wargamers among us. As a mass-combat extrapolation of the AD&D roleplaying game, Battlesystem is ‘Old School’ brilliant. It uses the same THACO, weapon stats, armour class, movement, and mechanics that AD&D does, but applies it to some company and brigade-sized units.
While that can make the system feel a bit clunky at first, it doesn’t take long to navigate the pluses and minuses of the Combat Results Table. Terrain, morale, discipline, and command are all taken into consideration.
If played as an extension of an AD&D campaign, placement of that coveted miniature – that character you’ve been playing for four years – is vital. It takes skill, discretion, and good fortune to keep your army in the fight and to avoid being pummelled into red goo. More than one ‘veteran’ character has met a humble end in a sea of one-hit-die-orcs…sniff.
Free-ranging player characters, and particularly spell casters, can also have a huge influence on a battle. A fireball lofted into an enemy line will remove a stand (representing up to ten soldiers or monsters), cause an immediate morale check, and can even rout a unit that is already out of command.
Magic tends to function as ersatz air power, but is versatile enough to fulfil a combat engineer role as well if you have characters with spells like ‘wall of ice’ or ‘thorny growth.’ Other spells like ‘obscure’ can drop down in carefully-chosen spots, acting almost like artillery-delivered smoke screens on a more modern battlefield.
There’s also glory to be had for player characters who don’t happen to be unit commanders: namely, whacking enemy heroes and leaders. I always sprinkle the opposing force with individual monsters and NPC thugs to keep our non-commander characters amused.
PCs are also free to wade into an enemy line and swing away, as there are three AD&D combat rounds embedded within a Battlesystem round. It doesn’t take a hasted, specialised 8th level fighter long to carve up a ‘stand’ of ten orcs, while a party of heroes can quickly reduce an entire company to red mist and bone chips.
As a criticism, the game can be a bit hard on pure role-players or pure wargamers, as the time eaten up by their respective segments can lead to prolonged navel gazing. Role-players can be left checking their phones while army players move dozens of unit miniatures, the reverse is true when the role-players are casting complicated spells.
That aside, we have discovered that Battlesystem holds surprising depth as a tactical wargame, and can be just as entertaining when played as a one-off, medieval simulation…with a generous measure of Tolkien thrown in, of course.
Oriskany Reports for Duty
Okay, time for full disclosure here. While a relative newcomer to fantasy wargaming, I have played Battlesystem 2nd Edition for decades. This is because the army list creation system in 2nd Edition has an amazing flexibility that allows the creation of armies well beyond the realm of AD&D.
I’ve used Battlesystem 2nd Edition for the creation of realistic Roman, Carthaginian, Celtic/Gaul and medieval armies, as well as non-AD&D fantasy settings. This has included years of wargames set in the world of Brian Jacque’s classic “Redwall” series, pitting defending armies of mice and squirrels against hordes of invading rats.
Long story short, Battlesystem can be used for a huge array of purposes. So I wasn’t a complete “babe in the woods.” I knew how to set up a cavalry charge, how to brace a wing with a phalanx of pikes, how to stage archers on high ground behind your line, and how to turn a flank with a well-timed strike of light or medium horsemen.
Basically, anything you can do in a system like, say…Kings of War, you can do in Battlesystem, only better. This is because older systems like Battlesystem handle fundamentals like movement, manoeuvre, missile fire, and melee combat in a far more detailed, granular, and frankly realistic way.
How much this experience would help me in Craig’s game, however, only the Dice Gods could say.
Thanks very much for taking the time to read this first instalment of our four part series. In the next piece, Craig will be outlining the orders of battle for the two forces and introducing some of the background to the battle. Meanwhile, we’ll both be sketching out our strategies for the game and perhaps opening the actual battle report.
We hope you’ve enjoyed this series so far. Of course, we know there are lots of fantasy players out there who have tonnes of their own stories, experiences, ideas, and favourite aspects of the genre. Please keep the conversation going by adding your input to the comment sections below! That’s how we “know” to keep writing articles like this!
If you would like to write an article for Beasts of War then please contact us at [email protected] for more information!
"Recently I travelled to Canada for a visit with my friend Craig, where I had the opportunity to try a genre of wargaming with which I’ve had very little experience; Fantasy..."
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"That aside, we have discovered that Battlesystem holds surprising depth as a tactical wargame, and can be just as entertaining when played as a one-off, medieval simulation..."
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@oriskany what the fudge… mind totally fried …lol
What can I say, @commodorerob – gotta try new things once in a while! 😀 Although when it comes to “fantasy wargaming,” I’m still holding out hope for that Hawaiian bikini team to arrive at my doorstep . . .
“My girlfriends and I just found these copies of PanzerBlitz, Panzer Leader, and Arab Israeli Wars. Will you teach us how to play?” 😀 😀 😀
Great article guys. I must say the same as you that the older game systems tended to be more detailed and granular. I cut my teeth on Tractics by TSR. I loved that game. Figuring out armor slope and effective penetration was great. It also taught me a great deal about the stats of various WWII tanks.
@cpauls1 I will be checking out your book when I get back to my Kindle.
I look forward to part 2.
Thanks, @cbrenner – and I agree . . . yesteryear’s games were much more willing to really take you into the details of a given wargaming situation. Nothing against today’s games, but it’s a different world and they have to compete with WoW, WoT, 900 different streaming channels and entertainment options, libraries of computer games, etc. I’ll be honest though, I’ll have to check out Tractics. 😀 Sounds pretty intense. I did play around with “Phoenix Command” back in the day, a WW2/Moderns skirmish and wargame that was almost too complex and detailed for its own good.
Thanks @cbrenner . As a matter of fact, @oriskany and I spent the entire next day hunkered down over a few games of Avalon Hill’s Arab-Israeli Wars. Best tactical board game ever made IMO (along with Panzerblitz and Panzer Leader).
I’m also a fan of the Steel Panthers World at War computer game (World War II) and Steel Panthers Main Battle Tank (modern). They are both individual squad/vehicle/support weapon top down turn-based games. We used to use SPMBT to train young officers. They’re a free download at Camo Workshop.
@cpauls1 – I still say you might have won that AIW game at Jenin if the hour wasn’t getting so late. 😀
Seems there’s never enough time for gaming. Win or lose, it was a lot of fun. 🙂 I’ll get my own copy again soon, and give you a better run next go-around. 😉
Nice write up. There used to and I think there still is a huge Glorantha themed meet up of war games and RPG’s using The quest and I think Hoards of the Things
Thanks @torros . I found a free .pdf download of HOTT, and will be giving it a look tonight when I get home from work.
http://grognardia.blogspot.ca/2010/08/hordes-of-things-for-free.html
Thanks, @torros! 😀 Waaaaaaaaay back in the day a group I belonged to asked me to help run a Battlesystem 2nd Edition campaign where as basically “burned down” the whole of Forgotten Realms in 2nd Edition AD&D (2nd Edition Battlesystem) – high level evil characters with some chaotic neutrals, of course. Suffice it to say by the time we got to Waterdeep we were powerful enough / armies large enough to break the game – I had to re-tool Battlesystem to run 100-man stands instead of 10-man stands. Was honestly much more involved in the tactical and rules mechanics than… Read more »
I think we tried 2nd edition battlestars then realised our 10th and 11 the level characters weren’t good enough to be Heroes in the game
Battlesystem even
I can’t speak for 2nd Edition characters, but I find the characters plenty powerful enough in 1st, even though they aren’t always used to their best advantage: the whole roleplayer vs. wargamer thing. Most of the heroes in this game were 8th level, or multi-class 7/7. They’re a good force multiplier, in that they can add morale to a unit they’re with, remove enemy figures with magic, and also plug a whole where you would otherwise have to place a company… the gap in the castle ruin, for instance. It became hotly contested by PC’s and barbed devils. Another thing… Read more »
‘hole’, not ‘whole’… duh. Actually @oriskany can probably address the whole 1st/2nd Edition character thing now that he’s played both.
At least as far as 2nd Edition Battlesystem goes . . . it might have a lot to do with the “kind” of RPG characters or campaign you’re converting from. Of course character class is huge. A “Lord Hero” (14th Level Fighter) in 2Ed BS is worth only 50 points. A “minor wizard” (level 8 mage) is 100 points, a “great wizard” (level 13 mage) is 175, a “major wizard” (level 19 mage) is 225. Also, from my limited (and very long ago) experience in AD&D has shown me there are some groups that are much more “strict” or “hard… Read more »
I knew I had seen them somewhere
http://www3.telus.net/dlpulver/armylist.htm
I think the comments are all in agreement… Oriskany, Grognard master, playing a FANTASY game????!!!!!! However, once you read the article you understand it’s just ancient/medieval warfare tactics that happen to be applied to Orcs and other creepy critters.
Also, gotta say the board looks even more impressive in pics than it did in person. Great job Oriskany. Also, @cpauls1 you have MAD painting skills! The figures look beautiful and badass…particularly a certain barbarian and her pony.
Thanks, @gladesrunner! 😀
Thank you @gladesrunner . You certainly did that character proud!
Doesn’t matter what the game is. Tactics is Tactics be they with Orcs Or Fredrick’s Grenadiers
@torros – How true is this statement? I will answer in two parts. 😀
1) We cover how much I agree with this … in detail … in Part 04 of this series.
2) I’m currently basing my American Revolution armies on 3/4″ stands because we’re running 1777 Northern Campaign battles in . . . you guessed it . . . Second Edition Battlesystem. 😀
Too right @torros . Some of the grizzled vets at the staff college used to say “Tactics don’t change, only the means to employ them.”
@cpauls1 I loved steel panthers as well. Spend many hours o the PC with those. I did not think they were still around. I will have to check them out. They were a blast to play.
@oriskany, Tractics was a 3 volume set of 8 x 5.5″ books and a multitude of charts that listed the stats on each AFV for armor thickness, speed, gun, etc. My club ran the GHQ Micro Armor Tournaments at Origins I, II and III using those rules. Loved play testing the scenarios.
Awesome. 😀 Played with a little GHQ Microarmor back in the day. 6mm platoon miniatures, right?
Must recover my 2nd Ed Battlesystem from the boxes from last relocation…
Yes, @warcolours ! Yes, you must! 😀
Wow, this sounds awesome. Thanks! Really looking forward to reading more
Thanks @joox ! We’re looking forward to it as well. 🙂
Thanks, @joox ! In Part 02 we start looking at the balance of forces and the miniatures used on the table, and kick off the actual battle report. In Part 03 we really get into the “carnage.” 😀 Part 04 talks more about the specific miniatures @cpauls1 worked with, and runs comparisons between Battlesystem and other fantasy-based games, and comparisons between fantasy genre and other like ancients, medieval, or even modern warfare.
This takes me way back to nights of no sleep. Beware the druids and you are paying in their backyard. With imaginative use of their spells can be far more impressive than the mage. Their stone to mud and mud to stone while not as impressive as the fireball, a unit not moving again has another kind of satisfaction. I predate this going back to the original D&D which is different to Basic D&D. The table top army rules did not readily interface with the RPG. The other thing that modern players would have trouble with is that the game… Read more »
Thank you @jamesevans140 . The stone druid was a deadly character in this game. I gave him a griffon to get around on, and he also had some ‘innate’ spells to turn him into a better combat engineer: 2 x spike stones, and 2 x ‘thorny growth,’ basically an impenetrable wall of brush. Spike stones is kind of like a nuisance minefield: you had to stop in front of it for a turn, and it did some minor damage. We play fast and loose with the rules. If there’s something we don’t like we change it, often on the fly.… Read more »
Oh God, the “Griffon Guy.” Many photos of him coming up (amazing miniature) and damn, was he powerful. 😀
We had much fun with our druids and yes it did take some time for them to get their spells off, but no one can turn your world upside down like a druid. Up front we ran 2 multi class thieves. Most magic user spell cannot be cast in the same time as a thrown dagger by a dexterity 18 thief. Behind them we had a magic user, a druid and cleric. Behind them we had 2 fighters who was our reserve (yes reserves are important). They really only drew their swords if someone did not do their job properly.… Read more »
Port night sounds great to me! I’m in :-). The libations always flow freely on game day, and I’m forever being bribed with something new. I usually stick to beer, so as to keep my wits about me. When we’re playing a big scrum like this people fail to realize that I’m playing an army, an equal number of nasty NPC’s, and individual monsters besides. They may have 10 minutes or more to figure out what their character is going to do, while I have 10 seconds for each NPC and critter, on top of army strategy. It was actually… Read more »
Well, I just led the army’s “grunt” elements, the actual infantry and cavalry, and tried to keep the team focused on one objective upon which we could all agree and have fun, Have to strike a balance when you play team games, you never want to be a jerk and “take over,” but it’s also important to keep everyone at least somewhat on the same page.
Ah, yes! AD&D Battlesystem. I picked up the first edition and after a read through the it sat on the shelf. Regrettably, it fell victim to the Great Game Sell Off of the mid nineteen ninties. Oh well, I may have to pick up a copy of the second edition rules. However, as far as fantasy RPGs go, I have moved from D&D to Pathfinder. Has anyone in the BoW community tried to convert the Battlesystem rules for use with Pathfinder player characters?
Thanks, @lorddgort think I’ve got a link to the 2nd Edition rules for a .pdf download somewhere. Advantage of playing 30-year old games. 😀 I can send it to you if you like.
@lordgort I fell victim to computer pretties in the 90’s, but thankfully much of my RPG/miniatures cache remained out of sight and out of mind, and therefore didn’t get sold off! 🙂
I had nothing to show for a night of fiddling with electrons on a screen, and was drawn back to the tabletop. Miniatures gaming is so much more tangible and tactile, and branches off into so many rewarding hobby skill sets. I still play computer games on occasion, but I’m more inclined to take up a brush, rather than a mouse.
Sorry… @lorddgort.
Sheesh… @lorddgort .
I really did have a blast with the epic scale of the game, but having played both, I gotta say I prefer second edition rules. First edition works best for players who love magic and having pages of spells. Second edition is a little more stream lined and works great for players not terribly familiar with AD&D.
Thanks for that insight @gladesrunner. It’s been a very long time for me and these little differences are now vague at best.
Indeed, @gladesrunner and @jamesevans140 – 1st and 2nd editions of Battlesystem are two totally different systems. Up to each player which is “better” – but they’re definitely different in some very fundamental ways.
This may be a generalization, but I think roleplayers might prefer 1st Edition, while wargamers seem to gravitate toward 2nd.
I would agree with that @cpauls1 . 🙂
@oriskany I might take you up on that offer. I have forgotten if it stands alone. Warhammer and I separated a long time ago. In that game I don’t see the sense of buying army units as the do not seam to have a purpose as major characters walk through them and evaporating them being completely impervious to any reply.
So for fantasy I use GW’s The Lord of the Rings rules. Just like Battle System it is a great medieval game first and the main add or subtract to the armies rather than being unit blenders.
Cool deal, @jamesevans140 – I’ll PM you the link if I can find it. 🙂
I agree. In several experiences I have had with Warhammer Fantasy it took over an hour of tome searching and mysticism to get a game underway, and after playing for half an hour I knew exactly how many acoustic tiles there were in the ceiling. It was an amazingly complex preamble to a numbingly simple system.
I missed this one at first, front page more so fast and furious at the moment – but glad an attack of insomnia had me discover it. I look forward to seeing the next installments.
You know me I will play anything, so I seem to recall coming across battlesystems in my wasted youth.
I know @rasmus – an “Oriskany Fantasy-Genre” article is a little out of the norm. Glad you liked it so far and like the next three parts. 😀
Wouldn’t surprise me if you ran across Battlesystem back in the day. I remember when we ran the BattleTech series we had dozens of BoW members crawling through garages or attics looking for half-forgotten old boxes, blowing dust off them and marveling that they still had all this stuff.
Nostalgia and Insomnia – not always bad things! 😀
Thanks @rasmus . I played Battlesystem a lot in my own misspent youth, although much of the time it was with counters and nothing resembling cool terrain. Book = hill, eraser = building, toilet paper tube = tower. You get the idea. Then I got few armies, painted them hideous colours, and we got a bit more creative with the terrain. I put it away through much of the 90’s, but I dragged it all out again eventually.
Great article guys. 1e Battlesystem and the Bloodstone Pass modules took over my basement floor for many a days. I never gave 2nd edition a full-blown go, but dabbled with the Skirmish ruleset.
Holy crap, I just found Bloodstone Pass on .pdf. Damn, a whole campaign, it looks like, completely with printable buildings at the back! Thanks, @donimator ! 😀
Thank you @dominator 🙂 I had the 2nd Edition skirmish rules as well. The 2nd edition stuff was light years ahead in terms of quality and gameplay photos. I never played it, as it didn’t fit in with our 1st Edition campaign, but it looked quite streamlined and fun. I am also loathe to take up a new system, in any genre, if I’m already playing one I like. Quirky I know. Bloodstone Pass was the campaign that inspired me, and led directly to what you’re seeing in the article! Thanks for the memories 🙂 Now, I know I still… Read more »
Sorry… @dominator !
Once again… @donimator
Thank you @oriskany and @cpauls1
This seems like it will be an interesting series of articles! The terrain and minis look great. I never knew D&D moved into the massed battle space.
I look forward to the next part!
Thanks, @rayzryr – glad you’re liking it so far. @cpauls1 ‘s table was indeed amazing. There are plenty more photos and discussion of that coming. We also hope to start a “support thread” soon in the Fantasy forum where we will include all the material that couldn’t be squeezed in the articles. 😀
@rayzyr Thank you! Believe it or not, some of the terrain is also 80’s vintage: the Geo-hex I used to make the hills. It was a great idea at the time, but fell short in the manufacturing process. The stuff was made from Styrofoam, and was therefore a bit flimsy, especially at the edges. Many of the pieces have had bits snapped off thorough storage malfunctions, or have been chewed up by mice while languishing in the garage. I still fix it and trundle it out for game day, but when I have time I’ll make something more robust. The… Read more »
Sorry… @rayzryr ! Edit function please! 🙂
Wow, AD&D Battlesystem – that takes me back many years. I ran a campaign in the Forgotten Realms and we used the rules to stage a large battle around Myth Drannor. It was great as a character lobbing fireballs at infantry units and watching them dissolve!
Off the back of that session I ordered a bucket load of 6mm fantasy models with the aim of staging huge battles but no one else was interested. I found them last year and ended up selling them on Ebay.
Burned down all of Forgotten Realms in a Battlesystem 2nd Ed campaign – although our of our group I handled more of the tactics and army construction, the more AD&D-familiar guys handled more of the magic. Started at one end of the map and marched in a series of battles all the way to Waterdeep. Took about a year (1990-91). Evil and chaotic characters / commanders, of course.
I hope not the whole map – I’ve got an A1 map of the FR and it doesn’t even include the eastern realms of Kara Tur and beyond. I think it would take you about a year in real time to walk from one side of my map to the other, let alone march an army across! I’d upload a photo if I could.
@redvers Forgotten Realms! Yes! We wore that boxed set out over innumerable Sunday’s. 🙂 Was that the one that had the big Waterdeep map in it? I know there was a later dedicated Waterdeep supplement… City System? It all fell victim to cat pee or I would still have it. It was brilliant. My first models were 25mm Ral Partha orcs and dwarfs, the old six packs of infantry and three-packs of cavalry. Some were ordered unseen out of a catalogue, and quite frankly, looked terrible! I still have a lot of them, but am gradually selling them off and… Read more »
Anyone remember when Warhammer would allow almost straight conversion of their RPG to the wargame ?
The only difference between WFB and the RPG was that a rpg stat from 1-100 needed to be converted to 1-10 scale of the wargame. I think the conversion was part of the WFB rulebook.
The original WFB was just an enlarged RPG. Fun game with some lovely scenario packs for it
Part of what we get into with Part 04 is a very brief, VERY brief comparison between Battlesystem and WHFB and KoW. From what I saw in WHFB (watched a couple dozen demo games in MWG’s “Old World Wars” series, I would agree with the enlarged RPG description. The units didn’t seem to matter much, the big heroes and villains with very generalized facing and movement rules seemed to be the hard hitters in that game system.
@cpauls1 : so this is where those orcs went ?
If I’m following you, are you looking for some vintage models?
I meant : are these those orc pike men you were painting during the weekender threads ?
Duh… OK, I’m back on track @limburger . 🙂 Working too many hours. Yes, that was why I was putting in marathons on those, to get them ready for the game.
I’ll have another suitable huge winter project on the go again this fall. 🙂
a nice change @oriskany not really played medievil on the table had many a happy time on the PS till a spell fry’s your best unit in the shadow of the horned rat.
Well its true you should try everything once except morris dancing. (You really need to have a look at in action to all of the friends over the pond.)
As always a well rounded and extremely well written article with the great input from two respected gamers, looking forwards to parts three etc.
Thank you @chrisg . They’re all up now. Enjoy! 🙂