Pointless Views: Exclusivity In Gaming
November 8, 2019 by crew
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Warren “I stirred up the Hornets nest”
Twenty Minutes later. Badger Furries and Cock Mushrooms flooding the stream. We had so much fun.
and none of it made it into the video…. XD
Hi,
Sorry that this is going to come across as negative/complaining and it probably partially is….
(I haven’t watched the episode before making this point, just read this in the show notes before I decide whether to invest the time to watch/listen.)
Talking about exclusivity when involving a subset (Discord users) of a subset (CoGs) of the OTTers is kind of ironic isn’t it?? 😉
This is a Backstage exclusive video that we pay for. If someone buys Backstage in five years time they can access this video exactly the same way we can access 5 year old Backstage only videos.
There’s a difference between a Membership benefit and an exclusive miniature purchase.
Plus all COG’s can be on Discord if you make that choice no to be on Discord that’s on you.
All stuff I knew and understood… I found it interesting that Facebook was mentioned in the show – yes, I decided to watch in the end and I’m glad I did…. I didn’t feel as left out as I thought I might be. Which again is kinda ironic when I thought the objective of “Pointless Views”, at least in the original incarnation, was for the crew to comment on our comments, thus creating a greater feeling of inclusivity between Backstagers/CoGs and the hosts. That was certainly the feeling I’ve had in the past on the occasions that my feedback was… Read more »
Not only time zones.
Depending on the time of day some people are working and not everybody can go sit in depending on the work they do.
I do agree with you that I much prefer Pointless views to be addressing comments. Content like this is better for an XLBS not Pointless views.
Community engagement didn’t even matter here since they didn’t even scroll down to read any comments and just stopped at the first one so don’t worry about missing out.
Got to say I was a tad disappointed that none of the other legit points were talked about, it almost felt like rather than interacting with the community you just needed an idea for something to talk about. Still a great show.
That’s exactly what it was 🙂
We let the CoG’s that were in there throw up a stream of ideas and we settled on one to chat about before addressing the the resulting feedback of the ‘Change My Mind’ topic 🙂
I’m enjoying the Pointless Views even more than the XLBS show (although I wonder if we could also call it “Grognard’s Grumble”. It’s the BoW version of the Grumpy Old Men TV series, and we need MOAR grumpiness to vent our “first world problems”. But on a more serious note, you’ll usuially find the “hot topics” in the forums are usually confrontational and up for debate between different viewpoints. And it’s with these “debates” we usually see both sides of the argument (and this can make us take a second look at out viewpoint). Many times things in Pointless Views… Read more »
But it isn’t because you have a choice to pay to be a backstager and you have a choice to go on discord
I would have loved to have joined this discussion on Discord, but Midnight in Oz….. Anyway, the Barnes and Noble/GW thing is cut down versions of existing games. They did it for Underworlds – Dreaddfane and now Bloodbowl – Blitzball. GW does it all the time. GW Event and store anniversary/openning/milestone character miniatures etc. From a retail point, they do it with direct, mailorder and Forgeworld. They give new releases to independants for a time through direct and then take them off take them off, usually with F’all notice. It was exactly like Warren described. You can order it but… Read more »
Uh I love the sprouting discussion on the trees XD
@warzan I would like to know your point of view and the rest of the guys about the following.
In the topic you were mostly talking about the exclusivity of gaming pieces.
But what about complete games that go through kickstarter that pass bye one time and might never come back.
Especially if you see the games popping up on e-bay and the like for a lot more that the game went for on the KS.
They even pop up while the game is still being delivered.
I know some companies have done similar things, like GW with dreadfleet, space hulk,….
great episode. with a extra value entertainment from the discord!
i mostly agree the exclusivity isn’t a bad thing as a tool. but as with all tools, how it is used can alienate and make people feel bad. so the use of it should be carefully considered for long term impact ( which i know is hard to do) and it should be advertised as a exclusive product/limited edition with clear goals of exclusion i.e. 500 product runs stated. communication of the facts allow people to make better choices(mostly).
I afraid I’m one of the ones against “exclusives”, not so much because they are exclusive rather I’m just sooooooooooo grumpy I dislike the idea of being manipulated with the “Fear of Missing Out” (FOMO) by someone in a marketing department. I don’t see thing’s being “direct only” as being exclusive as the availability is still there to purchase. And it’s that “availability” that’s key in my mind. I dislike the idea of having to jump through hurdles to simply spend money with a company. I don’t think that if a company should produce minis in metal or plastic really… Read more »
FOMO is a good point… and your right it didn’t come up, I suppose I’ve missed out on so much I just dont have the FO bit lol. 🙂
But yes we should discuss the whole FOMO thing at some point 🙂
I suppose for many years the “hobby” has always been (to an extent) “market led”, with manufacturers creating (and then casting to meet demand). So the customer has always been leading demand. However now so much is being done in plastics, and runs of sprues are in the thousands that companies are trying to lead//create demand. One of the ways that’s appeared in the last few years is FOMO (spawned by how well exclusives have caused backers to spend more money during the project run). So now we see more and more “timed exclusives”, or “pre-order” bonuses offering content that… Read more »
You’re gonna enjoy tomorrows weekender @phaidknott 😉
ONLY if I get to disagree with everyone and end up in Father Jack mode (my favourite TV show is Question Time and usually has me throwing cushions at the screen). Being “grumpy” has achievable rewards 😀
BTW the latest “storm in a teacup” was raised after GW showed the contents page in the preview of “Book of Ruin”. I’m in the camp that’s hoping it’s just a bad list (and the campaign is still there, as it seems such a silly decision that was made if it’s not).
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/07/bring-ruin-to-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-3/
The current Necromunda is a minefield of books and expansions, to the point I was in my FLGS the other day, cocked my head to read the Necromunda book-ends on the shelf, and didn’t even know what the heck was going on! Gang War 1,2,3, but you can buy Book of Law or compenium this, compilation that, but not the new Dark Sector? OR what was it? YIKES!
Ah the “tale” of the Necromunda rules is indeed complex, ridden with woes of limited releases and revisions of the rules barely 3 months old. Basically the game launched with a box set and rules (usually termed N17), GW then released the Gang War Books as the released each gang (with the Gang War books featuring rules for that gang AND addition “core” rules and equipment in each book). Then before they’d even released the last Gang War book, GW did a switch and released a new core rule book (termed N19) along with a “Gangs of the Underhive” book… Read more »
Had to read this twice, wow Necromunda…. yikes. N19 now!?
I think the fact that i often don’t think i’m buying a ‘complete’ game is part of what i dislike about those ‘commitment to not producing’ exclusives. (See my previous comment: https://www.beastsofwar.com/featured/pointless-views-exclusivity-in-gaming/#comment-556473 for what i mean by ‘commitment to not producing’ exclusives.) Don’t get me wrong, i like to have expansions and add-ons and so on, but they should be ‘optional’ rather than necessary. I get the impression that a lot of games are rushed in such a way as to be effectively incomplete, or even deliberately made to be incomplete, when sold or delivered. I realise that it is… Read more »
The problem is when it’s not “optional” content. When access is restricted due to limited runs/timed exclusives you may not get the option (so you have to buy when the manufacturer wants rather when you do). FOMO is a real driving force lately in getting those sales, and limiting availability males be wary of getting into games where I know I’m limited in what options I have available because of how late I got into a game 🙁
Price Gouging – I really don’t get why people get in such a hullabaloo about someone going to a show, buying something and then selling it to someone else for a price they are willing to pay – I wouldn’t even consider that price gouging in a moral sense, though it perhaps fits certain economic definitions of it. Now, if during a hurricane or other natural disaster or some other supply shock, the local Spar starts charging £10 for a bottle of water, or puts up the price of fuel extortionately … that is Price Gouging and they should be… Read more »
When you buy a limited edition item for no reason other than to sell it on at a higher price you are profiteering. You are artificially manufacturing scarcity and although it’s not illegal I definitely think in most cases it’s unethical.
So when Justin is on vacation, can we get John on the show? We miss John……
Still sad that our efforts on the Discord did not make it in the video…..
I’d just like to see Gerry and John do ALL the historical unboxings. OK the videos might end up an hour long, and many tangents explored but it would be GREAT viewing 🙂
I do think we need to be careful of what we determine to be a sense of entitlement. I see lots of things I can’t buy, not necessarily because of the price but specifically because of some kind of exclusivity, whether it’s because it’s limited edition, event only or kickstarter exclusive. When this happens I feel frustrated and depending on the context a little angry, although don’t go and complain to the makers (I have expressed my displeasure away from the makers own social media). What annoys me is having something advertised to me that is exclusive and I can’t… Read more »
@onlyonepinman In my book that is coming from a ‘sense of entitlement’ and guess what – it’s perfectly fine – we all have it 🙂 and its perfectly natural to have a ‘me first’ element within us – we’ve evolved to have it.
I suppose to be more clear, it’s when a sense of entitlement spills out into demands and public tantrums that I’m warning about 🙂 – that is becoming tiresome 🙂
I don’t see this as entitlement, I don’t feel that anyone is in anyway obliged to sell to me. However if you won’t sell me a product, don’t advertise it to me. I don’t feel entitled to buy anything but I do object to having things waved under my nose only to be told that someone won’t sell me the item when I try to do so
ok so let’s take that to its logical conclusion.
1) How would you expect advertisers to predetermined your interest in somthing they want to raise awareness of…
2) How would you expect you to be individually shielded from any resulting awareness campaign that rolls out.
The thing is, it’s actually becoming possible to do both of the above things, but IMHO I would rather ignore stuff than give up what I have to for the above to happen … so I dont have to ignore stuff 🙂
I already said that I accept this is a quirk of the internet that it happens. However It doesn’t mean I have to like it or that it won’t grind my gears when it does. I remember a time when there was no internet and this wasn’t possible. In fact I was an adult before the internet revolution so really this is an old sensibility colliding with the different world. However it still pisses me off when I am fed adverts for stuff only to then be told no, piss off Englisher. It’s like you get a momentary pang of… Read more »
there is a flaw in your theory though @onlyonepinman. Many years ago before the interwebz you still got show only models. I would see these advertised in WI or even things like WD, and knew I had no chance to getting them and was therefore disappointed.
The difference being, I think, that back in the day, I would be unlikely to see a miniature exclusive to a show that I could not reasonably get to should the mood take me. That is I would be unlikely to see a miniature that was exclusive to a show in the USA. That is the bit I find annoying because I would go to a show in the UK just to get an event in only miniature
Different people mean different things by exclusivity. I do not like it when a games company makes something (a miniature or whatever) that is tied into and/or expands on the gameplay (such as a specific character) exclusive in such a way as to commit them to not ever again producing that exclusive something after a certain point in time (such as after a crowdfunder ends). If that exclusive something is only paraphernalia then i don’t mind that at all, but then i suppose that’s a problem for the games company if the idea of the exclusive is to entice people… Read more »
Some thoughts: GW specifically: their exclusive range is to do with their ‘long tail’ – a situation where bricks and mortar stores can never realistically stock everything in the catalogue, they’ll focus on the big selling items that shift quickly. This is the model that effected the book industry many years ago (zillions of books in print, which books to stock? Bestsellers!) that Amazon exploited at the beginning by offering you everything to your door. That’s just product catalogue/range management. Exclusivity in KS. Type #1: Bonus options for backers to offer that extra value to anyone prepared to commit their… Read more »
Yeah I think with defiance it may well stay a KS based thing – just a completely alternative business model. But who knows really!
Sorry Warzan “That’s commerce.” I disagree, that’s rich people scalping less fortunate people, those who could not at the first drop of a hat afford that item. It’s the same old smelly capitolism, that the rich get richer [can save by being able to buy the deals/ can buy more of a limited item and then resell, ect]. It’s why having money lets you save money. You can buy the deals when they come up, saving money. Which then ultimately goes back into your wallet and it continues. It’s like a paying rent principal, not having enough for a down… Read more »
I would agree if we were talking about essentials.
But all this stuff is just fluffy nice to have stuff so I dont really think it qualifies.
IMHO 🙂
One could argue that “fluffy nice to have stuff” is essential to getting through this grim-dark world of mass manufacturing and human-process*. 🙂
* Death of self, goal detachment, ect. Maybe I just need to roll some more dice!
lol its hard to dissagre there!
Harsh, bah, Justine In Vancouver BC, Canada we have a term for people warren just talk about.
The Young Lady is clear a Richmond Driver License holder
all the kick-starters I have seen they have a 1 £/$ starter pledge.
so everyone interested can get one foot on the list.
GW old trees are sleepyhollow trees?
Glad to see the material discussion rekindled on this one. Assuming everything equal and all miniatures are the prime examples of their kind detail is always Resin>Metal>Plastic This is entirely because of material shrinkage and sharpness, metal simply combines the best of both worlds (Resin casting flexibility and detail and plastic durability and fast manufacturing) and as a happy medium produces a far superior product than both. That been said material is a tool and all tools have their proper utilization and need the proper handling, most peoples fear or underappreciation of metals comes because of how bad metal manufacturer… Read more »
Agreed on all counts!
Gents you might like to reach out to Locktight in Dublin, they did have an education department. And might like to help you in the chemical/mechanical adhesion.
Thanks for the tip @goban
To be honest, I think the issue with “exclusives” comes down to expectations… there are some ‘exclusives’ that become available at a later time after people thought they had exclusive models… or that were produced for a game that became a hit and suddenly was highly desirable beyond expectations and initial kickstarter or pre-ordering interest when the price sky-rockets for something that wasn’t intended to be so desired or expensive… and then when those models are ‘powerful’ or desirable in a game but unavailable, people react badly because they want to be competitive. CMON did an exclusives for ASOIAF that… Read more »
Lol. I just turned on the Weekender.. and listened to Warren rant about the “exclusivity” of the Warhammer & Barnes and Noble boxed sets… lol… it’s almost like Friday didn’t happen. I do agree with Ben – these are ‘introductions’ that are available in a large book store that gamers can pick up to dabble in a game they might be interested in or for someone who’s not in the hobby yet. The idea that “who cares” could literally be said about every product that crosses the news page that isn’t interesting to someone who doesn’t play the genre being… Read more »
lol yeah my issue is not with its exclusivity or even its existence. It’s more about the nature of it as an exclusive mini product range for B&N.
I just think of the hoops that were jumped through and wonder what was behind it. Everything about it strikes me as odd.
There is a lot of chatter about ‘but this is a gateway product’ but perhaps I’m being too cynical but I dont think that motive was very high up the list when this deal was formulated 🙂
I certainly don’t think they are in anyway a gateway product. Heroquest was a gateway product Because you could pick it up in any good toy store. This is specifically only available in Barnes and Noble. All I can imagine is that Blitzbowl has proven very popular and GW/BN are simply capitalising on that.
Speaking of extensions..hasn’t it been like 2 years since you did the awards?
yup
let’s see what January brings 🙂
Entitlement: I work in healthcare and have done for over 20 years. I would argue that this inappropriate sense of entitlement is actually not isolated to this industry but is actually becoming a part of UK culture in general. There are laws that regulate the supply of medicines and the number of arguments I get into about people who want medicines without a legal prescription or because the healthcare systems are not convenient or are time consuming has grown exponentially. I wonder whether there is a correlation to age where this is more prevalent among younger generations. With hobby products… Read more »
Agreed I loved it then and I love it now, was a beautiful aspect of the game!
@warzan something else I meant to post but forgot – Gnarly old trees. If you can wait a few months until it gets to retail Mantic will be releasing a range of gnarly old trees from their second Terrain Crate kickstarter. To the best of my knowledge the kickstarter is still in schedule to deliver in January next year and I would expect it to be on their webstore shortly afterwards. Or I guess you could reach out to Mantic and see if they can sort something (late pledge for example). https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leagueofinfamy/terraincrate-2-crate-expectations The set is called Peaceful Park and I… Read more »
nice @onlyonepinman thanks for that!
Even at retail price they’re still good value for money. But it does mean your little ones may have to wait a few months to explore the dark dark woods
Bless your cotton socks. I’ve been looking for this too since the GW ones went oop. Doing a dead winter forest for Darklands and some 7TV scooby shenanigans!
Exclusivity of gameplay content grinds my gears as much as slow drivers and cold toast.
Nothing poisons a game like gameplay advantages/options only available to a lucky few.
Gw are becoming really bad at this, with the necromunda tactics cards.
I’ll be running a campaign soon and tactics cards not from the core box will be banned.
(or we get them photocopied and laminated for all to use).
Alt sculpts are fine, have them limited no issues there. But exclusive gameplay? Nah thats a dick move and sounds a lot like pay to win.