September 27, 2010 by lloyd
Darrell takes us on a quick look at charging a model that has used the transformation of kadon, and whether of not you can issue a challenge in Warhammer Fantasy.
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BoW Lloyd.
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I wouldn’t let you challenge it (him/her). It’s a nightmare rulewise if its sometimes a monster and sometimes a Wizard, I mean can it also channel more dice? can troops around it use its LD? does the enemies “sword of anti heroes” get bonuses cause its a hero? Can you kill it with just killing blow or is it then counted as a monster so you need “the monster killing blow sword”? Just count it as a monster from the moment it turns into one, nothing more, nothing less. Much simpler. I don’t think you’re right this time, usually you… Read more »
Well there are a number of examples of monster characters. I would say when it is in monster form it’s treated as one of those.
So for example, it can be challenged, but is no longer man sized so normal killing blow works.
I’m one of those people who just kinda tries to play by common sense though, and I know expecially in competative settings that’s not often the agreed method of deciding things like this.
Actually, just because his stateline and bas-size and troop-type have changed, doesn’t mean he’s no longer a hero. He can’t cast, but he can channel (he’s still a wizard, just it says he cannot cast). Yes they can use his LD (he may stay in the unit of he fits and he doesn’t loose his Inspiring Presence rule if the general), he’s still a hero so counts for the sword of Anti-heroes, he would have to be “monster-killing-blow”ed. What you are suggesting is to change the rules, which is fine, but there is no good reason to because there actually… Read more »
Apologies, he can NOT channel. It says so in the spell, but I missed that part. Regardless, it meant your question was answered before it was asked regarding channeling, lol 😀
That’s the only thing I hate about GW, why don’t the just do as Mantic and Privater Press and answer peoples questions. This sort of thing can really destroy a good game, t’s a simple YES or NO question but no one has the right to rule it, except GW, who says nothing. Guess there’s only two ways to solve it: fistfight or to let the dice decide.
Final Question??
he probably means before they leave for gamesday
It’s a hero/character in the form of a dragon – anything specifically anti-hero works, anything specifically anti-monster works – not that difficult ….
i love the fact that you put the stompa next to little buildings in the background:P
Q: If a model is transformed, for example by the Transformation of
Kadon or Sivejir’s Hex Scroll, do their special rules stop working
along with their magic items and equipment?(Reference)
A: No
-Page 6 of the WHFB FAQ
I see this as the answer to confirm what this video is saying. The model may become a dragon, but it would still have the character rule, making it challangeable. Which means you could let your unit champion challange the new dragon wizard, have your champion most likely bite the dust and if you’re lucky have the rest of your unit slay it or win combat.
this is usefule since i collect dwarfs and i have a deamon slayer that dragons gona be in a world of hurt now can’t w8 to try it
i would say that you could still challenge it but i don’t think that like a sword of antiheroes would work as it changes its unit type to MO
that said the transformation of Khadon spell is just a nightmare to the enemy. the great fire dragon is strength 8 toughness 8 attacks 8 and wounds 8 plus i don’t see why when you are down to one wound you cant end the spell and transform again. it also has scaly skin 2+
Wounds suffered are carried over between transformations. If your wizard had 3 wounds, lost five as a dragon, if he changed back, he’d die.
So you cant just uncast it and then cast it again.
It doesn’t stop being a character: it changes from infantry to monster. So you can still challenge it.
Second point: Because you transfer the wounds suffered (not left) to the wizard when he returns to normal (E.G. your 3w caster becomes the 8w dragon, loses 7 wounds, reverts to wizard and now has -4w).
A lot of people at my local run almost exclusively Lore of Life where they can get it. Beasts is actually one of the most underrated spell decks out now. Transformation has won me a game or two with my Wood Elves. Its very debatable whether you can actually challenge him because a Character turns into a Monster, but retains the item effects as the Monster. In a situation where the big guy can get challenged, I would almost always take advantage of the breath-weapon that most of the monsters have. Question though: if you get dispelled, then turn back… Read more »
Well if the FAQ is true, then I can have a dragon with magic items that gives it wardsaves, rerollable amroursaves and the like. That just seems wrong.
Woah, were did you get that from? The faq says you can use special rules (ie High lf dragons having ASF, certain vampire dragons being etheral etc) BUT Items and equipment DO NOT work.
But the FAQ says what tuimic said “do their special rules stop working
along with their magic items and equipment?(Reference)
A: No” (just checked it) so all my armour, arcane items, weapons, even the wizards hat still works…which feels chessy to say the least.
Their magic stuff doesn’t stop working, but the spell specifically states that they can’t USE it. It doesn’t say they can’t use their special rules, just their equipment.
The FAQ just says that it doesn’t stop the stuff from working (I.E. They can use it when they turn back again).
maybe a different interpretation of the question: ‘along with’ may imply that magic items/equipment do stop working . . . and that the person is asking ‘do special rules stop working (along with AKA {as well as}) their magic items and equipment.’
if that makes sense!
I’m unsure as to where all of the confusion is coming from.
It’s a character that’s statline gets upgraded, base-size is increased, gains a few special rules, keeps its own special rules, is still a character, is still a wizard, can’t use any items it has and can’t cast (NOT because it’s a Remains in Play spell, as they work differently now – rather, it’s because the spell states that they can no longer cast, but they can still dispel!) or channel.
can you give some tips on a bray shaman turning into a ghorgon, gient etc and can you please do an example of one
Simple counter to this – “Purple Sun of Xereus” – initiative test, if failed slain outright no saves. Manticore I=5, Horned D I=4 and Black Hydra I=2 (lol). Great Fire Dragon I=1 !!!
If using – choose your monster carefully!