Fantasy Flight Calls for Rotation in Their LCG’s
November 7, 2014 by deltagamegirl22
If you are a fan of Fantasy Flight's Living Card Games, then you will want to listen to this news. Fantasy Flight Games has recognized that with the popularity of their hugely successful Living Card Games, has come a handful of problems:
- An overwhelming card pool intimidates and turns away players who may otherwise be interested in the game.
- As a game's card pool grows unchecked, its metagame begins to stagnate, and the game falls apart under its own weight.
- Players aren’t the only people who are impacted by large card pools, and as retailers need to carry more and more products in order to support a game, it becomes harder for them to do so.
In order to be sensitive to these concerns, Fantasy Flight has decided their solution to these issues will be introducing the concept of Rotation. Rotation is a term used to describe the systematic retirement of older cards from an LCG’s card pool as newer cards are added and FFG’s rotation policy is based on the number of monthly expansion pack cycles available at any given time. If you are a Magic player, then the concept of rotation is a familiar one as they promote various "blocks" of cards through rotations.
The new rotation policy for FFG dictates that the standard card pool, for use in all Organized Play tournaments, will consist of a game’s Core Set, its deluxe expansions, and its latest five to seven cycles of monthly packs.
The LCG's impacted by this decision include the following:
You may notice that The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, is not included in FFG's new rotation policy. They decided it wasn't indicated in case of that game since it is in fact a cooperative card game.
What do you think of this bold move by Fantasy Flight Games?
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It’s funny, they call it rotation, yet rotation describes a circular motion where 1st cycle cards will return at some point – they should call it what it is: planned obsolescence. Not saying it’s the wrong move, I just get skeptical when people sell grape juice and call it young wine; like introducing resin to make things cheaper “for the customer.”
… wow … they just totally f***ed that up : /
the whole reason I play LCG’s is to avoid this kind of bullshit,
… errr, like 90% of all the other LCG players I know …
this could backfire massively,
only a 2 year window for netrunner before they scrap 240 cards : /
… I mean, fine, limit print runs, but don’t just scrap good cards and make them illegal,
that was one of the main draws of the format, along with no booster chasing
Does it only take two years for Netrunner to go through 5-7 cycles? The only LCG I paid much attention to was the WFB one and that had two cycles per year, so this would mean a cycle would drop out 2.5 – 3.5 years after release.
yeah, a cycle is 6 data packs,
and we’re just on the verge of finishing the third cycle for netrunner,
so that makes it around early spring 2017 when they scrap 2 cycles 🙁
… the timing of this seems to be becuase it’s “just” still 2014,
so it seems further away than it really is,
like the whole £9.99 isn’t really £10 trick most companies pull
This is awesome ! Form a FFG buisness standpoint.
For everyone who spent half a lifetime worth of work for their funny cards, its sucks soooo much.
LOL they even served this humble and reasonable explantion, to soften the blow.
ROUND 2 ! BUY !!!
Sounds crap :(. Will stick to deluxe expansions if I bother to get any more.
This is not rotation its termination…oh dear the LCG has just become like any other CCG…maybe worse…:/
Maybe it’s because I’m on the outside looking in but this seems like an eminently sensible move to me. The more cards I have to track down and buy to get into the game, the less likely I am to do it. 5-7 cycles is a very reasonable amount to keep legal.
it’s not that bad actually, because the core box comes with 7 factions for netrunner 🙂 so you can pick and choose what style of play you like, I mostly just use 3 – 4 factions, H/B and NBN for corp, Criminal and Shaper for runner, and the decks can be somewhat mixed together a bit, so that adds flexibility 😉 and I only use 1 core box, and have 1 deluxe expansion, and 7 out of the 16 data packs 🙂 it’s very easy to pick and choose what you want ( not necessarily “need” ) you could quite… Read more »
I don’t know if it will affect the games’ sales much but it will certainly drive people already out of competitive play further away from it.
I suppose this makes it easier to get into the older games if half the expansions are rendered obsolete but it remains an artificial boundary that casual players are likely to ignore and they may have trouble hunting down older sets.
As someone who only collects their deluxe packs for games with friends this has little effect on me.
We have found that with purchasing deluxe packs (CoC and Warhammer: Invasion) we get a growing set of roughly equal strength factions. This helps increase playability and the fun of deck crafting from an equal strength point.
yeah, I think I’m going down the route of,
” I brought them, so I’m using them ” 😛
if the rule only applies to tournament play, then… well, whatever 😛
Well this was unexpected. If they would have some important reprints and kinda have like basic set of that cycle then this might not be problem but I assume that they won’t do that.
First thing I wish to address is the Living Card Games. We as the UN view “living” as a right for all and cards in this game being living deserve such rights to be treated equal. The second thing we object to the term “rotation” as it objectifies the card as if it was not “living”. Rather we do support the term “retire” for older cards as maintains the cards dignity and supports its standard of living. Also the term rotate might become confusing if the said card is of an owl. As players might be thinking the card is… Read more »
This is why I like Vanguard. There is a really short outright ban list. Any card that is determined to be particularly dominant ends up on a restriction list, which means you can only have X number of copies in a deck instead of a playset which is 4. Old boosters are widely available online and for a reasonable price, and old cards are still legal in tournament play. Old doesn’t necessarily mean bad either, a new card could come out tomorrow that makes an old relic relevant again.
Also I thought the point of a living card game was you got the regular expansions of a trading card game without needing to buy lots of blind boosters. I like the idea of buying a box and knowing what’s in it. I like trading card games too but being able to buy a box of stuff for your hobby and knowing exactly what is in it is really nice. Fantasy Flight could simply fix the problem of an overwhelming card pool by simply updating the starter set or release new starter decks every once in a while. Making old… Read more »
How about making packs that are 5yrs old 50% cost?
If we were to approximate a 5yr cost for Netrunner….
1 cycle= ~£72
5 cycles = ~£360
1 delux = ~ £25
5 delux =~£125
Total for a new player to join after a 5yr window = ~£485!
The new player will then be required to burn £97 of his product havin only nust got a year from it. Sounds really fun to join in a game like that……… 🙁
whoah, it’s not that expensive 😛
data packs normally only have a few new cards for each faction 😛
and some are more dedicated to maybe 2 factions,
but you don’t really “need” them, they just add a bit of extra play style 😉
it’s very easy to just look on the internet and see what comes in each data pack 🙂
so that helps save the coins 😉
Thats the thing, it is that expensive…..
well I’ve only payed a little over £120 for all the stuff I use 🙂
and that’s been plenty for me 😉
you can quite happily just use the £35 core set for a year 😉
the only way anyone would ever buy “everything” is if they play all 7 factions 😛
… or have obsessive compulsive disorder 😛
this isn’t MTG, nobody spends hat amount on netrunner 😛
Just because you have only bought a portion, doesnt mean its a cheaper game. Just that you havent bought it all. Bit like saying 40k is cheap because you only found the need to buy the dark vengence box….
… just like nobody buys every mini for every army in 40k 😛
and the are 7 factions in netrunner,
so you only need to buy things for what factions you play 😉
I play 4 factions, so cheaper for me 😛
I know people who have been playing with just the core set for 2 years…
Thats my point also though. There are multifaction cwrds in Netrunner and you are also permitted X influence cards depending on the ID of your faction. Not all people are happy playing a limited game, they enjoy the multi possibilities that an advanced game offers. If you choose tonplay with limited cards great for you, but to play competitively you will need access to most card. Also, when the time comes to invent new cards for the next cycle, there will be a time when they start inventing the wheel again, just different artwork just like MtG. Im not saying… Read more »
let’s face it dude, with 15 spare influence, thats like 7 out of faction cards 😛
… so like 3 – 4 types of card 😛
so ice, or icebreakers, or maybe some cards that get you more money …
anyway, to say netrunner is a limited game with only the core set is like …
well … errr, never having played netrunner 😛 ha ha
the core set still has all the best icebreakers for example 😉
only the stealth icebreakers come close, and even then … you always go core 😛
not sure where you get the idea that if the core set is boring for prolonged pure core games = never played it……. as I would be unqualified to suggest it was boring had I not played it…… there are lots of good cards in the packs, which you need to switch in and out of different decks in order to not become monotonous. you are trying to list all the benefits to casual play, but these rules apply to competitive play. If you like to play with only a few cards, again, Grats. but your not really adding any… Read more »
well I was judging that you’d never played before by this sentence in your first post
” Sounds really fun to join in a game like that…… 🙁 ”
… but hey, there’s always google if you want to write basic statistics
40k is cheap compared to 30k… 😉
How many of you actually play competitively? The scene isn’t big enough for competition here so we mainly play balanced factions.
That’s a brand new concept! DCG : Dying Card Game
I’d rather have organised cards in “campaigns” or “cycles”. Whatever event or tournament you organize you have restricted it to a coherent campaign or setting (even past ones). This would have allowed narrative leagues or events which would have enhanced the “living” aspect of LCGs…
What’s the difference between the card cycles and the deluxe expansions?
card cycles are just datapacks that have a loose narrative idea behind them 🙂
the current one is about the events happening in cities on the moon 🙂
datapacks normally just have a 2 or 3 new cards for the different factions,
some are really good, and some are a bit pointless 😛
I wouldn’t say they are “needed” but they can add some fun ways of playing 🙂
the deluxe boxes are bigger, about 165 cards iirc and focus on a runner and a corp. The cycle expansions are more regular and have approx 60 cards (3×20 cards) from across all IDs
It sounds to me that FFG want to keep the games at a level that they can manage, seeing as there are 6 games on the go right now. They are worried that games may buckle under their own weight if they continue with their current model. I wonder if the retired cycles would remain in print, or exist as print on demand only? The Call of Cthulhu LCG will also not be subject to rotation, confirmed by FFG. They are however, retiring expansion by the Asylum Pack cycles. Future expansions will be via deluxe expansions only, starting with the… Read more »
Seekers of Knowledge is an old deluxe expansion focused on miscatonic university. You said ‘Future expansions will be via deluxe expansions only, starting with the Seekers of Knowledge set’ What do you mean, how can they start with an old expansion?
The other announcement from FFG alongside this was that Call of Cthulhu players will now be able to start Draft Play soon.
I like card games, but the idea of planned obsolescence, in the same way as Magic is a bit of a turn off. Like a couple of other users, I may stick to core sets plus deluxe expansions in future, starting with the Necrons for Warhammer 40K Conquest.
Mixed feelings about this. About 2 cycles happen per year, meaning at 5 that means a single cycle will have 2ish years of play. At 7 that means 3. Not too bad, I believe most people burn out after the first year of a game anyway. The deluxe expansions + core set will be a pretty stable pool and so the cycles will be the focus on giving the game a dynamism. I hope they support a ‘legacy’ format, I think that’ll I’m more outraged by the fact that GoT LCG is getting a 2nd Ed, not that it wasn’t… Read more »
So it’s just like CCG except for blind buys now?
And it will be rotation when old cards are brought back a few years later in a new pack that will be legal to play unlike the original printing…
I have a novel new idea for game companies: How about making a game you buy and play and that’s it? If you want to make more money, find more customers.
Chess?