Weekender XLBS: Recasting & The Effects Of Piracy
October 7, 2018 by dignity
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First! Happy Sunday! 😀
Depending on the time of the Darkstar I would be up for it
Awesome, @rasmus. You’re only one hour behind me so the issue isn’t with our time zones, it’s with the GMT time zones in the UK. But we can see what comes up! 😀
Even better Ohio is on EST – so I think we are in the same time zone. I was more thinking of the UK. Most livestreams I miss due to work
Yeah, that’s gonna be tough. Most live streams I do with BoW are at 7AM, so 12 noon their time. I usually can take care of them before work. I have no idea if that will be the case this time.
I have to say you getting the first happy Sunday could technically be cheating… still RAR vs RAW I am sure will be a topic for another Sunday. However a really good addition to the panel (for want of a better word) and great insight into the robo/battle tech issue – and very interesting with the lost mechs and the comment about one or two suddenly blurring the benefit of doubt. Thank you for adding to my Sunday morning XLBS.
jim is to funny, he used to be so serious and then warzan got to him.
And Happy Sunday all.
😀 😀 😀 Only as serious as I need to be.
Love the LRDG, keep up the great work with the historical pieces,
PS the minis were Polish Paras, I know is lived next door to one as a kid, he had so many stories
( Dropped into Arnhem and got out )
Yay! more @Warzan All those minutes of research really show
Nein 🙂
Happy sunday folks.
Happy Sunday. now to watch
Enjoying the show so far. Will ben dress as Falconhoof for the D&D content?
Dark Star looks fantastic, will check it out in the projects. I really like the abstraction; I get the sense that I can imagine what my ship looks like, without being bound to someone else’s artistic vision. Am I right about that?
Thanks, @rfernandz2001 – that’s true. We do have some ship classes “drawn out.” But only a handful out of 90+ ship classes. So most of them are “wide open” visually. Excel sheets are also ready for players to design their own ships (select weapons, shields, electronics systems, FTL drives, aerospace / small craft capacity, thrust, etc). So if you really wanted you could design your own ship and then imagine or draw it however the hell you want. 😀 The ships do specify a certain weight, crew complement (most destroyer classes, just as an example, run about 45-52,000 tons and… Read more »
Don’t forget the surf board. And where’s the beachball with feet hiding?
Surfboard and beachball? (??) 😐
Some Google searching …
Okay, got it. No, this is most certainly not a 1970s space comedy. 🙂
Cult movie Dark Star by John Carpenter and Dan O’Bannon, 1974.
Awwwww I thought that’s why you called it that!
THat’s awesome!
Thanks very much 😀 @silverfox!
@oriskany a question dude: are you at all aware of a Japanese franchise called Legend of the Galactic Heroes? I only ask because an updated anime adaptation started this year and I would genuinely be intrigued to hear your take on the space battles and the fleet tactics that get used….
@dawfydd – I was not aware of it, but I am now. 🙂 Thanks very much for the tip! Some quick research has revealed that the ships are pretty cool. One major difference between Darkstar and this is the lack of any “neverending war between two factions” mechanic. We wanted a strictly colonial model, where the wars are small, short, and momentary. This makes more sense in the economics and social constructs of the world we built for our setting, and also helps facilitate more freedom for game play. So if you have a Japanese task force and I have… Read more »
D10 will indeed work a single face is of a d10 is a quadrilateral and all quadrilaterals (not just squares) will have an angle sum of 360 degrees. Any multiple of 360, as 9 is is a factor of 360, will also add to 9. All factors of 9s digits add to 9, eg 18, 27, 36 etc. as Jim said, Jim is also right all factors of 3 have a pattern too and will add to either 3, 6 or 9 (and all factors of 6 will add to 3, 6 or 9 AND be even numbers.) As every… Read more »
I’m so glad I didn’t have to write this post as someone as someone beat me to it! 😉
😀 You would have done it better mate 😉
It’s still 4+ to hit though?
Always … 😉
… and in case you can’t pick that I am posting while watching…. Gerry’s sub is %%^$ beautiful
cheers son, when I finish detailing and weathering I’ll do some photos of it. But I’m relatively happy so far.
Happy Sunday!
Ben’s right about ‘entitlement’. Let’s consider other common theft (Piracy is Theft!) which occurs in the world of multimedia; i.e. Music and Video. ‘copying’ has always gone on, however – there are levels: 1- if I copied an LP I’d bought onto a C90 (one for the kids) for my own listening 2- if I copied an LP I’d bought onto a C90 and gifted to a friend 3- if I copied an LP onto a C90 and sold it to a friend for the cost of the C90 4- if I copied an LP onto a C90 and sold… Read more »
Ha!! Just checked out KD:M models on eBay. Not only is someone back, but their items are even appearing as ‘sponsored’ search items. Takes the Pi$$
To reiterate my comments on Theft (the term) are just to keep us right of any technical and legal definitions as that can be a minefield 🙂
Well, UK law is straighforward…
Basic definition of theft.
(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.
(2)It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit.
The moral position of someone buying something they know or suspect has been stolen is another matter – it’s the commercial rip-off merchant (literally) I have a big problem with. Although, without a Market…
Yup I’m on the same page 🙂
Good Morning Friends!!!
Well if the Dice God is German he obviously does not favor those that live in Germany!!!!
I find he’s a bit of a shit to everyone regardless of geography 😉
if you take the smallest and largest single digit and add them then remove and go to the next they each add to 9. 0+9, 1+8, 2+7, 3+6, 4+5
Ben is right … it is a sense of entitlement on behalf of the purchasers. Will they be upset when games companies go to the wall, no they will probably won’t.
Good Morning on and all!!
and a tip top toppity biffen’s morning to you sir, bwaaah
Your reading my mind Sexy Furious!!!
The sense of entitlement is what makes people say its OK to buy recasts!
Less and less people are willing to earn stuff.
Heck I even see this in my work.
@oriskany I hadn’t realised you were using part of the Renegade Legion battle damage system. Good choice
Ehh … Not really, at least not anymore. The older editions of the game I mention were admittedly a lot closer. A LOT closer. But a lot of this had to be ditched in the “sacrifice for playability” version 2.0 had to make. Greatly simplified now. So less detailed than Renegade Legions (even Leviathan), more detailed than Battletech.
As soon as I hear battle damage templates and see armour blocks in rows of 10 it’s the first thing I think of. Can elite gunners/captains shift the the row where the weapon hits
Thanks, @torros – I would only specify that only battleships use the d10 for hit locations on a given ships facing (bow, stern, port bow, starboard bow, port quarter, starboard quarter). So they technically have 60 possible hit locations because they obviously have much larger hulls. Heavy cruisers are hit on d6 hit locations. Light cruisers on d5 hit locations. Destroyers on d4 hit locations. Frigates on d3 hit locations. Corvettes on d2 hit locations. Gunboats only have 1 hit location per side. Installations (either orbital or ground-based) have a parallel scale of classes, ranging from waypoints (small automated stations… Read more »
Happy Sunday… Excellent show so far
What cracks me up is the way @oriskany is trying not to swear, and @warzan is dropping F bombs ?
Really looking forward to @brennon doing DnD I have just dived back into dnd after 25 years 🙂
I was trying not to swear at first. Later I start dropping a few small ones. 😀
I would agree with Ben on the recasts point – this is all discretionary spend and if you want something save for it or don’t buy it if you can’t afford it. The only grey area i can see if when people recast miniatures that have gone out of production as there is simply no way to give the original company the money.
@oriskany @warzan Hell yes I am in for a game of Dark Star 🙂
Can I be Royal Navy…?
No worries at all, sir. @dignity played Royal Navy in the Darkstar Let’s Play that will hopefully come out soon. I won’t spoil the ending, but he did pretty well for a first-time player of what is honestly a pretty deep and crunchy game.
Royal Navy is pretty solid for remote play / tutorial, no super-crazy rules or bizarre ship classes.
Excellent, just let me know when you are going to organise things.
A lot of that is going to be up to guys in the studio, scheduling the streams, figuring out screen sharing via OBS / other streaming software, etc. I’ll keep any updates posted on the Darkstar project page.
https://www.beastsofwar.com/project/1185947/
Ok no probs, I will await the call. I have only ever used O365 and Google docs to work collaboratively before.
11 minutes for one bad pun? Just imagine how long the Hobby Hangouts would have to be if Warzan ever joined them.
Watching a four way live stream online that will bring back some meat? Count me in.
Welcome aboard USS Darkstar. 😀
Blood Red Skies is 1/200 and Cruel Seas is going to be 1/300.
Cruel Seas is going to be coastal craft so Motor Torpedo Boats and E-Boats. Is not likely going to have ships bigger than my frigates, and maybe the odd destroyer at a push.
Yeah, I thought BRS was 1:200.
Dark Star is hitting buttons with me. Besides the ye olde movie reference as per my avatar it stirs in me a mix of designing starships in the ‘Traveller’ RPG system and playing the TT ‘Silent Death’. Ilook forward to finding some ttime and delving further.
On the IP issue I’m with Warren, weoponize! I think Bens ideal should always be the target of way we want it to be but you gota do what you what you gota do.
Thanks, @pafetikbazerka – Okay, the Darkstar starship design process isn’t nearly as complex as it is for Traveller 2300. I tried that once back in the day and it was a nightmare. It is more complex than those seen in Renegade Legions games like Centurion, Interceptor and definitely Leviathan (ironically the most simplistic and disappointing game in the series) – or the Vehicle Design / Modification systems seen in Steve Jackson’s Car Wars series. However, Darkstar has the benefit of Excel-driven data validation dropdowns and VLOOKUP functionalities off a master root sheet that drives all the math, so you can… Read more »
As @oriskany aludes to the Battletech/Robotech situation is somewhat unique in that Harmony Gold and FASA BOTH licenced the mecha of Macross but from two different companies who were both involved in the production of the original Macross anime. Personally I think HG over-reacted massively given how Robotech and Battletech handle mechs in vastly different ways and the settings are noticeably distinct. The legal dispute has gone on for decades now and is why Macross, a cultural juggernaught in Japan, has not seen any series past Macross plus released in the West. Happily it looks like the situation is nearing… Read more »
The early Battletech mech designs contained licensed designs from several Japanese toy lines/animations. Some of them were exactly the same designs as used by Robotech. The legal dispute with Harmony Gold was interesting. I believe Harmony Gold actually sued Hasbro over one of the Transformer toy designs which was then removed from US production. After FASA settled with Harmony Gold and removed the disputed mech designs they also removed all the other designs they had licensed as a precaution. Harmony Gold actually tried to sue over the new Battletech computer game mech designs but it turned out the company that… Read more »
Thanks, @dawfydd – indeed, the legal history between these companies is bewildering. When we ran the Battletech article series two years ago, we had one reader (@fpilotbierce) that really went to town in the comment thread, giving us a four-page history of the legal troubles surrounding these licenses. I won’t re-post the whole 2300+ word comment here, but I will drop a link for a COMPLETE and DETAILED (and pretty impartial) breakdown of the legal issues, at least up to 2015. Of course it leaves off before the most recent 2017-18 reignition of the issue in the wake of HBS’… Read more »
I’ll be honest, @koraski, I am far from impartial when it comes to the RoboTech / BattleTech war. I am a BattleTech fan and not ashamed to say it. The amount of unfair lawsuits and restrictions that FASA was hit with by people like Harmony Gold and Paramount (Star Trek franchise), the amount they were blatantly ripped off by companies like GW (ahem, most of the Renegade Legions universe, up to and including Titans for 40K), its just shameful. Meanwhile, FASA, then Catalyst Game Labs, then Microsoft, then Piranha Games, then Harebrained Schemes, these people keep trying to release new… Read more »
Oh I get your point completely @oriskany – I really got into Robotech and Battletech (via the Mechwarrior games) whilst at university and whilst I appreciate what Robotech did in terms of weaving together three unrelated series to create one epic narrative, and in serving as an introduction to Japanese animation for a generation of kids, Harmony Gold’s “stewardship” has ultimately done far more harm than good I feel. Sure the rights FUBAR is a relic of the wild west days of early licencing deals where Western companies didn’t get just how many companies could be involved in the production… Read more »
I agree with what you’re saying, @dawfydd – as a hard-core Gojira (Godzilla) fan and also (cheezy as it was), old Space Battleship Yamato (icensed as StarBlazers in the US to Voyager Entertainment), I’m sometimes frustrated by how hard it is to get good DVD releases of certain Japanese properties – like certain Godzilla entries (Toho Studios) or Space Battleships Yamato. I paid dearly for many original Japanese-subtitle copies of the Godzilla library (all three periods), and now have a complete set – barring the very newest one (on my list). But I balk at the original Space Battleship Yamato… Read more »
@oriskany My main point, and only point of disagreement with you is that they were literally the same mech designs licensed from 2 different license holders in Japan. They weren’t kind of similar or look a lot alike. They were literally the same designs.
I think Harmony Gold had an unexpected hit with Robotech and their attempts to turn it into a Star Wars type merchandising empire didn’t pan out so they started looking to place the blame. It’s unfortunate that FASA ended up being one of the victims.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, @koraski, even as a die-hard BattleTech fan, I totally agree that SOME of those looked way too close for comfort / identical, and agree that they should have been taken off FASA’s library. My issue is that even after FASA complied with this, they were sued over and over and over and over again, and even after they had to sell the BattleTech license to Microsoft (electronic gaming – the birth of the Mechwarrior computer game series) and then subsequently to Catalyst Game Labs (somewhere around 2007-2010) for the resurrection boxed set release, then Piranha… Read more »
Happy Sunday! Another fascinating debate. I know I’d never knowingly buy counterfeit or pirated miniatures, but I also (to an extent) understand various reasons why people would. I don’t think it’s right but not everyone is of the same view, nor would they be even if educated. I always knew there’d be an element of knock-off effect for any miniature range. Retail shops have to budget for theft too. What SURPRISED me, at least for the example shown, was that the re-cast sales were 5x higher than the official sales. WOW. I can’t imagine many retail stores staying in business… Read more »
aye, I know a small group of them have gotten together in a sort of self help group where they share things like who to contact at these companies if they have an issue, although that doesn’t seem to have helped so much so far. They even privately share names of known recasters between them so if one of them attempts to buy from them to get the figures they can block it. But that only goes so far and they’ll generally find another way of getting them.
Didn’t GW, for all intents and purposes LOSE the chapter house fight?
Happy Sunday one and all 🙂
bout ye big man. Hope you’re keeping rightly