TTCombat Purchase Dropfleet & Dropzone Commander
October 24, 2017 by brennon
TTCombat has announced that they have purchased both Dropfleet Commander and Dropzone Commander from Hawk Wargames in a new deal.
Here's what they had to say on the matter...
"For the past few month, we have been talking to Hawk about handling their logistics. The difficulty of off-site production combined with fulfilling one of the most successful UK wargaming Kickstarters of all time was putting strain on their business.
David Lewis is one of the most talented designers in the industry; he’s made two amazing games and a beautiful range of miniatures to support them. However, as time went on, David found himself spending most of his time running a company and dealing with the fall-out from the Dropfleet Commander Kickstarter.
After discussions on how to best move the business forward into 2018 and beyond, we both came to the conclusion that it would be better for Hawk Wargames to become a part of the TTCombat family.
David is of course staying on as lead designer and will now have his time freed up to do what he does best: design breath-taking miniatures.
The TTCombat team have been working on a range of buildings and accessories which will launch alongside Dropzone Commander 2.0 at Salute in April, and there will be plenty more before then!
We have a lot of moulds that require remaking, so some supplies may be a bit short while we facilitate the transition, so we please ask all the DZC and DFC fans to be patient with us during this time.
If you’ve followed TTCombat in the past, you’ll know that it won’t be long before everything is up and running."
The team will be making sure Dropfleet Commander Battle Fleets are going to be available as well as that which is outstanding from the existing Kickstarter project.
"The Dropfleet Commander Kickstarter still has some items outstanding, and we at TTCombat will be ensuring that all backers will receive all of their rewards promptly. If we have to make your toys from scratch then we will get pouring resin!
There are also some outstanding vouchers, which of course we will be honouring via the TTCombat webstore.
Once we have organised the stock we have collected from Hawk and got it all listed, you’ll be able to choose from any Dropzone Commander or Dropfleet Commander products, or the full range of TTCombat games, scenery, and accessories!"
Make sure to keep an eye on things as they push forward with this project and give them time to get up to speed.
What do you make of the news?
"However, as time went on, David found himself spending most of his time running a company and dealing with the fall-out from the Dropfleet Commander Kickstarter..."
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On the surface this seem like a good move for both companies, however I’m afraid that TTCombat may have taken on too many licenses recently for them to do justice. I get the impression that they are a small company built around MDF terrain, who are still getting their first game off the ground. Maybe I’m underestimating them? I hope so.
I think you underestimate, TTCombat is troll trader, its there brand name for any in house products they sell.
That said not good news for me as i wont deal with them any more.
I know they are Troll Trader, but I know Troll Trader as a shop, not an experienced games development company. I hope I’m underestimating them. They have taken on some interesting licenses and I do like their terrain. I’d hate to see them having troubles.
Sent you a message 🙂
@nakchak, would you please let us know why you won’t deal with them anymore? Is it Hawk, TTCombat or Troll Trader that you have issues with? Is there anything in particular that makes you take this rather categorical stance?
@nakchak I don’t know what has caused you to adopt your current stance, however I have had similar feelings in the past about Wayland games. I guess it’s just part and parcel of dealing with retailers, sometimes they get things wrong. What I have also found is that the same things that I have found with Wayland can happen with any retailer and eventually you will run out of places to buy if you black list every store for bad customer service experiences. And now, with the consolidation of IPs into some of the big retailers, potentially run out of… Read more »
Agreed. I’m no fan of Wayland, but the work they’ve done on WWX has been spectacular, so not dealing with them would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.
I like what TTCombat has done with Carnevale and Rumbleslam (although I’m no wresting fan). I’m glad they’ve got Relics, and this purchase fits a gap in their lineup nicely. Hopefully, they won’t stretch themselves too thin and will be able to continue the fine tradition of great Drop- stuff.
From what I am hearing with the DZC and DFC communities the response has been pretty good after the initial shock. It seems they are retaining the core of the Hawk team and not just Dave, it will free up Dave to do what he does best, he will get some sleep and things will start moving again. 🙂
Wow, crazy. I hope TTCombat can take all this on. Carnivale, and Relics too. It’s hard not to lump Hawk’s products with other (while great) games that have failed. I feel it would have been better for optics to just provide distribution and management for Hawk. At least for a a little while, anyway.
I hope that TTCombat can make all these games feel like their brand now, in some way. If they can standardize their message, then they might make it work.
Personally I would not mind them dropping the ball with Carnivals and Relics if DZC and DFC survive 😉
They have taken some staff on as well I think so I would expect that Hawk’s products won’t add too much pressure on TT Combat in terms of production.
Sounds good logistically. As that have at times been a problem for Hawkwargames. If they let Dave be Dave and run the story forward -Great. But the real question is if we are more likely to see DzC/DfC in LFGSs after this. And on a personal level if the events continue. Beside that I hope the Hawk team get to stay together
And no matter whom run it. I hope for US good distribution
So will the outstanding items from the Drofleet KS turn up?
I am prepared to wait and see what happens – too early to know yet.
TTCombat have stated that they will fulfil the KS. @redben has it copied and pasted in a news and rumours thread.
Makes you wonder who’s bankrolling ttcombat, cos that is a tonne of licenses they’ve been gobbling up – and all from relatively cheap MDF terrain. I think we might be seeing a push to be a major player in the gaming space as the Hawk family of games shows a watershed in TTCombats level. Relics and Carnivale is one thing, but Dropfleet/dropzone is almost the same level of recognition as infinity/privateer levels.
If they end up buying Mantic then we’ve got a potential GW on our hands.
Interested to see how this progresses and how it grows.
Troll Trader are a retailer and distributor as well as makers of MDF terrain and acquirer of games.
Yeah, but so many aquisitions of IP, even though a few are from “fire sales”, makes me think a fresh injection of cash has entered the business. Or a really good year for sales over all TTs interests…
They have bought a few IPs however as @redben says they’re a retailer so they’re bankrolling themselves in probability. I don’t know what the specifics of the deals with Hawk or Tor Gaming are but the Carnevale IP was advertised as being sold for €13,000 which might seem like quite a lot to us but Troll Trader is quite a large and well established retailer with a strong online presence on top of which they make their own range of scenery. I suspect that purchasing IPs isn’t as big of a deal for them as we might think.
Oh, no.
I think its too early to judge TTCombat and whether they will be able to bring anything to the table that will get the likes of Dropzone and Dropfleet really flying. I’d perhaps caution bringing a third game into the mix as really the two existing games need work especially if they want them to become a long term success.
So far the only thing I’ve really taken a look at in regards to TTCombat was the Carnevale KS and I was really underwhelmed by that.
I agree about a third game, concentrate on the two games
Don’t forget about Rumbleslam … which is their own IP.
So that’s 4 total (although technically 5 if DFC and DZC are different games … )
Yep they are different games just same universe
Don’t forget that as well as bringing the game under their control, they have also brought in some of the team. So they haven’t necessarily put a significant extra burden on themselves from a production perspective. And as a retailer they are already well set up to handle logistics.
Yet another established games company thwarted by a “successful” Kickstarter. When will the madness end?
Pyrrhic victory of the kickstarter
The kickstarter wasn’t just successful, it was amazing. With the massive costs of tooling, producing that many models, packaging and distribution on that scale for a company the size of Hawk needs a complete sea change of processes is just impossible.
I really hope this will work out but it seems a case of too many cooks.
@limburger I was referencing Dropzone and Dropfleet. In a statement I’ve seen elsewhere they allude to launching another game set in the same universe in 2018 which I think is a bad idea.
But what do I know! I’ve probably sniffed too much glue sticking plastic men together all these years.
I think it can be a great move. A company that has the ability to produce games and all the terrain for a decent price too.
I think a big barrier to some games can be the terrain available, which is not an issue for ttc, which can help encourage people to buy into these games. 🙂
Never really been an issue with DzC as you can get card buildings which go up in seconds 🙂
@ttcombat: Will David be lead designer for Carnevale and Relics too? Or will he be concentrating on the Hawk brand wargames?
He is focussing solely on Hawk products and the other teams will be working on the other ranges. We’ve got this planned 😉
As @redben has already mentioned, TTCombat is not just linked to Troll Trader but also Kingsley Distribution. As a retailer I’ve always found them to be the most dependable and helpful distributors to work with. In my experience the key to handling multiple game projects at the same time is having at least some people dedicated to each one, and it sounds like they’ve put that in place by keeping the same designer and team. I’m not a Dropzone/fleet player, but this sounds like good news to me.
The only thing that has me concerned is what happens to the IP of DZ and DF if TTCombat sell Hawk to someone else, or TTCombat goes bankrupt? I’m not hoping for either, of course.
Is David Lewis still the owner of the IP or does it belong to TTCombat now? Excitement for improved distribution aside, I can’t help but imagine creating and nurturing a universe and then loosing proprietorship of it due to problems outside of Hawk’s sphere of influence.
Well that is behind the scenes stuff the fact that Dave has been retained to keep the game going is key. If Dave went I think it would be the end of the games
TT Combat have bought Hawk Wargames in its entirety (they posted that in the comments on their Facebook page). If TT Combat goes into administration then the IPs could potentially be sold on again (as we have seen with other IPs). However I don’t think TT Combat is likely to go bankrupt, they’re quite a successful retailer (as Troll Trader) and that retail operation gives them a nice safety net to help them get their IPs established
wow.
Very happy for both companies but only concern at this stage is the support to Australia which at this point from TTCombat is done webstore only. But their shipping is at a reasonable cost but still its hard not to worry about it because its very very hard to build a game within a store without the product being available there 🙁
Not a store owner but I like to support my FLGS.
Also seriously hoping that the hard plastics arent going away.
I see no reason why they would. The molds that needs repairing they mentioned in the update must for resin or metal, the plastic ones last way longer. And I don’t believe the plastic production was in house at Hawk.
I really did not see this coming and as a committed Hawk supporter I have some concerns, but I can see the sense of it. Ever since fulfilment of the Dropfleet kickstarter began Hawk have been struggling logistically to both fulfil that and to keep stock rolling out. Releases have slowed for Dropzone while Dropfleet has been pushing Hawk hard to meet demand. I never felt like the company was in financial trouble but it was clearly struggling to grow to a comfortable level where they could manage both successful games. I’m concerned that this sort of change could impact… Read more »
I really hope they do not go for a third game it is far too soon and I personally do not want to see the Dropverse entering into the world of 28mm as their is too many 28mm sci-fi games out there with the likes of 40k, Infinity etc its just a too crowded market and it would have to be a really good game and original to ensure it is not just a rehash of existing games.
I completely agree 28/35mm feels like a really crowded space right now and it is a tough market to crack. I’m not sure what they would be offering that will stand out. It would be better all round to spends 2018 iterating on their established games before expanding yet again.
2017 has been Hawk struggling with growth and two successful systems, 2018 should be about building stronger foundations.
Can I ask where the 28mm talk is coming from? I wont pretend to follow the industry chat or Hawk in particular all that much (other than enjoying DZC as a game). Has something been mooted?
I think people are just worried that’s what TT Combat might be planning based on all the other IPs they own
Its mostly speculation but Hawk did show a bit of Infantry art at the last Invasion event. As Dropzone covers 10mm scale and Dropfleet is spaceships scaling up the models seems like the remaining direction to explore hence 28mm. Another option might be a dogfighting game along Xwing lines. Hawk have never shown any interest in board game products so what’s left?
I’m not sure a dogfight game is likely, I think if push came to shove you could play something like that in DZC – plenty of aircraft and AA weapons. Which kind of only leaves, as you say, 28mm. I think that it could possibly work but I can see why fans of the current games might be concerned at a dilution of the output by spreading across 3 games. I’m a massive fan of 28-32mm games but I am going to refrain from advocating in favour of a 28mm DZ game because I probably wouldn’t buy it (love the… Read more »
They have had infantry art in all the subsequent DZC books after the initial Rule Book. The games can be pretty infantry heavy so I don’t see this as a sign of any future direction. When I asked Dave about the potential of going to a 28mm skirmish game he did not seem that keen on it, whether this has changed his mind or not who knows.
but I want some 28mm Razorworms!
So now we know that DZC can continue under new company. This news is sure to make DZC players happy.
Dropzone’s future wasn’t really in question aside from Dropfleet’s launch diverting most of Hawk’s attention for the last year. Hawk weren’t going broke like Spartan, they were struggling to grow the company to match their success. This actually more of a cause for concern as Hawk’s community never had any doubts as to the company’s intentions, just how long it would take for stuff to get done. Dave is surrendering a level of control here as he is no longer the boss or owner. Someone else now gets final say over the product and the community doesn’t know them. It… Read more »
That is some what speculative, who says Dave has not cut a deal that enables him to retain that control over the final products, given Dave’s obsessive attention to detail I cannot see anyone overruling as everything he produces is amazing.
To quote: “Today we have an extremely exciting announcement here at TTCombat. We have completed a deal with Hawk Wargames to purchase both the incredible Dropzone Commander and Dropfleet Commander.” The language of the statement is pretty clear, TTCombat have bought out Hawk and the IP, the company is being integrated into TTCombat with production/distribution relocated to TTCombat’s premises. Dave is staying on as lead designer, but he now has a boss. That doesn’t mean anyone is going to start dictating to him how to develop the game, but the possibility is there. If it were just a case of… Read more »
Of course, but who knows what is going on behind the scenes, as they say the devil is in the detail, which we don’t actually know. It may be that the deal that was done allows Dave to keep a stake in the Game and IP (however small) which gives him some say over the direction.
For me and I suspect for a lot of other people if Dave went that would be the end of both games.
I would be surprised if Dave as a part of this deal has not become a part owner of TTcombat/Troll Trader (whatever the owning company is called) himself, and in a sense still owns a part of Hawk.
It is not uncommon to do such deals when companies of this sort are purchased and the retention of key personel (i.e. Dave, being the creator and driving force behind the IP) is really important to the purchaser.
I take the language quite literaly when TT combat says they have bought the licence and rights to Dropzone commander and Dropfleet commander, they have purchased all of Hawk’s assets without actually buying Hawk which means they do not have to take on any of the Hawk staff, Hawk is now just an empty shell to be wrapped up and thrown away, at least one if not more of the crew at Hawk has lost their jobs
Honestly, no offense to Dave, but he has looked rather….frazzled. The massive amount of work he’s been doing did seem to be taking its toll. Has he had a proper holiday since Dropzone came out?
Being able to leave some of the work / logistics to others, so that he can concentrate on the things he enjoys when it comes to Wargaming is only a good thing.
Good luck to everyone involved.
Don’t really have a dog in this fight but I hope it works out for all involved. I like what TT are doing with carnivale and while dropzone never really caught me the hobby is richer for individuals like Dave.
Grinding such a talented and passionate individual as Dave down with the business side of a company is just such a waste!!! If this allows him to do what he loves and does best…then I am sure it will show in the future!!! Best of luck both for the years to come!!!