Weekender XLBS: Will Star Wars Bring You To The Tabletop?
January 10, 2016 by warzan
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Happy Sunday!
Another great show guy! A few questions and observations. Having only seen all of the Star Wars films for the first time this Christmas, what is so controversial with the prequels. I loved them but many consider them dreadful, am I missing something? I’ve subsequently a pretty extensive x-wing collection, probably because it’s one of the few games my wife will play and we love it. Looking at the latest releases therm appears less definition between board games and tabletop war-games. I think the gap between the classic board games like Monopoly and classic war-games such as 40k has closed… Read more »
These are just my opinions so highly subjective but Ep1 was terrible for a variety of reasons, Ep2 was better but still not great and Ep3 was quite good. I think Ep1 tarnished the rest, I was about 16 or something like that when Ep1 was released and I still thought it was rubbish.
The new Star Wars film I just found highly enjoyable as a film even taken apart from the previous films.
To me having watched the films for the first time now in my 50`s, I wonder if too much is read into them. I find them entertaining but don’t feel as though they fall into the si-fi genre. There’s a bit too much of the Dr. Who about the early films. This isn’t a critisism, I do truly enjoy every film. I suppose looking back on the build quality and storyline of some films around back when I was a kid I’m easily impressed. I’ve also watched a number of documentaries into how the films were created and I think… Read more »
They are sci-if, but they’re in the subset of Science Fantasy/Space Opera. Basically they’re in the part of Speculative Fiction where Sci-Fi overlaps with Fantasy. As for the dislike for the prequels, it’s largely down to the plots and dialogue not being as good as the originals (eg. Compare “Now this is pod racing” or “I hate sand” to “I love you” “I know” or “No, I am your father”), to too much emphasis being put on the effects and them not feeling like they fit with the originals at times. Generally they feel very inferior. Another aspect is probably… Read more »
Regarding that last paragraph, I feel like I understand exactly what Lucas meant about Disney making a movie for the fans. Star Wars is – or rather, was – his baby. It was up to him to decide the events which would take place before A New Hope, and ultimately it would have been up to him to decide what events took place after RotJ. For better or for worse, the people holding the purse strings during the prequels were not there on set with the power of veto over what Lucas wanted to put into the film. So ultimately,… Read more »
@siygess : Star Wars was his baby, but I feel like it grew beyond him long before the prequels. And his comment sounded like he was sour over the fact that Disney had dared make something that wasn’t for him. I don’t think any of the fans were opposed to the romance plot or the concept that it would result in pushing him over the edge. What they didn’t like was the execution and dialogue. And as I said, for many the prequels didn’t feel like they gelled with the originals, so Lucas wasn’t really interested in keeping them consistent… Read more »
Fair enough man. I disagree (for me, the faults of the prequels are outweighed by the story Lucas was trying to tell and what it contributed to the Star Wars saga, while the much better execution of TFA didn’t make up for the lack of a new story or lore that logically builds on what happened in 1 – 6).. but I also know I’m in the minority. My other, equally Star Wars-mad buddies think I’m nuts.
@siygess : while the story he was *trying* to tell might outweigh the faults, the story he *actually* told doesn’t for the anti-PTers, in fact some of the time that is the flaws. While he had a noble idea in trying to make the PT story, he just didn’t have the skill to craft it.
TFA is largely a retread of the OT, but it does build lore wise on it.
But each to their own, and if you prefer the PT, good for you 🙂
Btw, if you’re interested in actual analysis of the flaws/merits of the film’s, check out the SFDebris forum 🙂
Just done an update to this post. Note to self, don’t try to type a post whilst listening to the Weekender, lol
To answer your original question, there are a lot of problems with the prequels, almost too many to really discuss in a forum post. In broad strokes the problems lie with the script and dialog, a lack of real direction, and George’s almost pathological need to cram as many marketable objects into the movies as possible, regardless their detrimental effect on the plot (three different villains is totally unnecessary, especially when one is killed off, his replacement introduced then also killed off all in the space of half a movie). What I won’t criticize is the casting. Most of the… Read more »
The prequels are much more palatable when viewed in their cut form. Try out Episode 3.1: Turn to the Darkside. It cuts 3 movies down to 2.5 hours, with just 10mins of Episode 1 staying in. The cut refocuses the films on Anakin’s journey, and also removes the superfluous scenes (pod racing, that bloody chase on the parrot monster thingy etc etc). The end result is a film that slots right in between 5 and 6 if you watch the series in Machete order.
Give these reviews a watch: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/
They may help understand the problem many have with the prequels.
Great show guys. Next Movies are Rogue One (Stealing the plans for the Original Death Star and will have Peter Cushing in it created from his old movies), Episode VII, Han Solo Movie from his younger days, Episode VIII, Bobba Fett Movie
It’s a good thing they junked the EU otherwise this’d be the hundredth time the Rebels stole the Death Star plans :p
Morning chaps, Just wanted to share something I saw regarding the Jedi and The Force falling into myth & legend over the 30 years after Endor. Consider that, during the scenes where Luke actually shows off his Jedi abilities (Jabba’s sail barge, fighting Vader on Bespin and the final confrontation on the Death Star II), other than his friends there are no witnesses to his actions, so effectively it’s been 50 years since the end of the Clone Wars and the Jedi were a presence amongst the everyday folk of the Republic/Empire. Not so hard to believe they would have… Read more »
Also there were maybe 1000-2000 Jedi in the Galaxy most of them scholars or agents so most people in the galaxy would never have seen a real Jedi in the flesh anyway. Plus the Empire did kill 99% of them from the old history in the Second Jedi purge. Even Revan fell into mystery after his disappearance and he had a much larger and more open effect than Luke
Happy Sunday! Firstly re Star Wars I thought it was a good remake of Episode 4, but there was little to re energise my interest. Having read all the “legends” books (even the really crappy ones!) I think there was much more scope for a truly epic movie. To me though it was just a damp squib! On the GW hypothetical take over, I could actually see the retail chain being kept. When GW started all those years ago, it was a 1 stop shop for all RPG’s, board games, card games and miniatures. GW back then hardly made any… Read more »
As a war gamer who has become more of a board gamer, I feel that I have a take on why the board game industry is growing. One the figure is some of the board games are of a great standard which allows me and possibly others to fulfill their painting bug. The other is having reached a certain age where kids arrive, the kids find it easier to play a game which contains everything and has a rich story rather than being faced with hundreds of figures along with massive books of rules which change every 5 years. There… Read more »
UPDATE Another great show guys! Having seen all of the Star Wars films for the first time this Christmas, why are the prequels so controversial? I loved them but many consider them dreadful, am I missing something? I’ve subsequently amassed a pretty extensive x-wing collection, probably because it’s one of the few games my wife will play and we love it! Looking at the latest game releases there appears to far less definition between board games and tabletop war-games these days. I think the gap between the classic board games of old like Monopoly and classic war-games such as 40k… Read more »
*spoilers in post if you’ve not seen Star Wars FA* Star Wars was both quite good and somewhat dull. It was actually pretty great to see the old heroes appear again (Han, Leia and Chewie) but the dialogues between Han and Leia were horribly cringy. It was good that Han died, that gives space to a potential new character to fill his niche. The movie has some characters whose flaws make them quite interesting with the notable exception of the mary sue character of Rey. Making one of the two most important characters an unflawed perfect character kills off any… Read more »
To be fair he’s an alien – maybe to his race that’s a scary name. For all we know something like Fluffy McFluffington is something that’d strike terror into the hearts of his entire race ;p
Kylo Ren and Finn are both developing, interesting characters. You can’t have too much development and character growth in one movie. I thought The Force Awakens offered a great, flawed villain and something new, a redeemed Stormtrooper. There wasn’t a phantom bad guy, they were clear, and that is a good thing. This movie was made for teens or even younger, remember. The old characters played nice parts in the movie and the story introduced a new cast. Not everything was recycled and I think Rey could see some growth in the next film…at least, it’s been set up to… Read more »
Yeah, the only thing that was recycled was the plot.
Great show guys as usual…
Rouge One is about a commando raid on the first Death Star to steal the plans….
I don’t think it was a remake of episode four. I thought the first third was, the second third empire and the last third return of the Jedi. Agree with the in jokes comment though.
Forgot to say but I enjoyed it. 7/10 for me but after the prequels I was really happy with it.
While watching big Ben with video lag, I was reminded of Max Headroom.
Happy Sunday! – been a while since I said that…
As an old git who was mid-teens in 1977 and is a bit cynical about the whole Disney thing… with the new SW film there were parts that I wasn’t so much thinking about TT gaming but wondered what came first in certain sequences – the video-game design/storyboards or the film?
As for a Star Wars Miniatures based War game it’s wothwhile looking at what other licenses might ‘get in the way’ unless this was considered when they were carved up; for example teh Revell range of plastic models at all sorts of scales, some of which are aimed at those with minimal modelling skills and are quite affordable (http://www.revell.com/model-kits/entertainment/starwars.html). Some of their EasyKits (a few, click together parts) for sensible pocket money prices…
I don’t think the retail chain would be retained if GW were acquired by Asmodee or HASBRO. They’re both companies who sell a wide portfolio via independent retailers and the chain costs a lot of money to maintain. It’s ingrained in GW because they value them as fundamental to their recruitment. I don’t think that would be the case for a diverse company like Asmodee. Of all the types of tabletop gaming, boardgames definitely have the biggest chance of going mainstream, for the reasons mentioned in the show. It’s already happening to some degree with the likes of Catan. I… Read more »
I was left with a slight dissapointment to the whole film; i actually went to see it again and this feeling was confirmed. Dont get me wrong, there were a lot of great parts to the film, but it felt forced at times and wasnt allowed to move natuarally at its own pace. I also felt that they didnt need the original crew; Harrison Ford, l felt, was surplus to requirement – did he do this role to finally ensure that his character was killed? Still, it was a vast improvement on the last three and ill be there to… Read more »
happy sunday… what a great show @johnlyons your dracoliche looks awesome, having just painted the red dragon mini from that range i have to say they are amazing sculpts and so detailed an absolute joy to paint as too starwars i saw the film just because, but it really still has not inspired me to war game in that universe, our club is doing a x-wing day and i just cannot get on with that. I really dont know what it is that the idea of starwars or even star trek series i have enjoyed since childhood dont inspire me… Read more »
Happy Sunday,
Saxon miniatures are beautiful sculpts and yes they are using Little Big Man Studio decals on the shields on those saxons, you’ll be seeing them in a couple of hours Justin 😉
I’ll get you into SAGA yet.
Keep trying G keep trying
With the release of an official Dark supplement for Lion Rampant being released I would be tempted going down that route
Ooh I did not know that. It’ll be great to have another ruleset for that case of Welshies.
Saxons fighting Normans?….Umm No
Alfred fighting Saxons. Err No
Saxons fighting Britain’s after invading/invited after the Romans left ….yes.
Hastings is Anglo Saxons which is centuries of inter marriage and settlement by the Saxons
I don’t think Warzan actualy cared; he was just desparately setting up Justin for the Early/Late Saxon (the Heavy Metal band) joke. 😉
In any case, the minis they show are just Anglo-Danish, not Saxons.
They’re just misspeaking because the name of the company is Saxon…
doesnt Imperial Assault have two rule books in it? one for boardgame and one for wargame
It has two rulebooks and ways to play, the campaign play and skirmish. The skirmish is for one-off games when both pick a force and fight a scenario, but it still uses the same tiles and same core rules so it isn’t any more wargame than the campaign.
Happy Sunday!!!!
@warzan: A wyrm is just an archaic name for a dragon that was repopularised by Tolkien. I think most people tend to use wyrm to refer to wingless dragons, but technically it applies to both varieties (iirc both Glaurung, the father of dragons who was wingless, and Smaug who was winged are called wyrms). On a side note, wyrm is where the word worm is derived from, so unless I’m mistaken, wyrm tends to be used for the more serpentine bodied dragons rather than the fat bodied ones. Then you have Oriental dragons which are a hole other kettle of… Read more »
I can honestly say without contradiction, that there will be hundreds of people going what Games workshop removed from the high street if it was purchased lock stock and two smoking barrels worth. Having been an independent retailer and had mixed results dealing with GW depending upon the success of the retailer, as it becomes more successful the more difficulties it encounters as it takes more of the GW localised market. This is what did actually happen in some very nasty ways, at first we welcomed onto the block, we chose the right area the right financial demographics etc etc.… Read more »
Happy Sunday! John you did a great job with the Dracolich. The only thing I would have done, is to intensify the contrast between the scales and the flesh underneath. May be it is much more noticeable in real than via video. I’m excited to see the project log. I think Ben nailed it. Because Star Wars is such a big IP, there is no need for more factions to be a successful proper war-game. But in fact, it could be boring on a long terms perspective (for us hobbyists), not to have the opportunity to expand and explore a… Read more »
It was something I had thought of too. But I wanted it to look like an “old” dracolitch. Maybe to the determent of the overall effect until you get a good close look at it.
The downside of two factions is there’s only three different games you can play: XY, YY, or XX. You’d have to build in a lot of variety to both X and Y to make that playable to the extent they effectively become just an umbrella for several different factions each. GW essentially did this with LotR:SBG where all armies were either ‘good’ or ‘evil’, but there were several distinctly playable armies under each umbrella. GW also had to expand on some of the armies over what was in the source material to make them playable on the tabletop. Throw in… Read more »
Well I´m quite a big fan of star wars. I read nearly all the books from the expanded universe. I´m not to happy that Disney announced the books invalid. There are great stories they could make another 20 movies from. The argument to kill the books was, that the director should not suffer any restrictions. Well, what Idid see in the cinema was: -A start on a desert planet. -looking for droids. -Narrow escape in the Falcon. -A bad guy in a funny hermet. -A more bad guy that appears only as hologramm – the base of the bad guys… Read more »
Agreed on just about all counts oranje, just think of the factions they could have had in X-wing/Armada if they hadn’t ditched the EU!
Not all the books were good by any means but there was a massive amount of fluff and despite Disney consigning this to the scrap heap they have still kept some things from them .. Han and Leia’s son turning dark, although he has had his name changed from Jacen to Ben, Luke’s son from the books! I for one won’t be surprised if it turns out Rey is Luke’s daughter and that Ren killed her mother!
Or that Rey is not related to any of the old characters but was in fact a youngling at the academy rescued by and placed somewhere safe by Luke.who then withdrew from civilisation. The force then guided Rey to Luke’s lightsaber and ultimately to Luke. Touching the Lightsaber triggered a flashbacks that in turn revealed hidden or repressed memories of her training at the academy. That’s how she learned force skills so quickly and how she seemed to have some lightsaber training. It’s also a better explanation than keeping it in the family.
missed out farther and daughter get together at the end scene
Great show thanks.
I’d love a star wars wargame. I am still kicking myself that I didn’t stock up on the fantastic Knight Models range when they had them.
I have a lot of thoughts on Episode VII, The Force Awakens. too many to post here so I’ve started a thread off in the Back Stage forum.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/backstage-green-room/forum/topic/star-wars-the-force-awakens-contains-spoilers/
In summary: I’ve seen episode VII before, it’s called episode IV. I rate the film 6/10