Weekender: Win 40K Shadowspear & GW TOP TRUMP?
February 16, 2019 by lloyd
Welcome to The Weekender for this week where we've got Needy Cat Games talking about their new project alongside author George Mann for a Newbury & Hobbes tabletop game!
Weekender Podcast Download
Make sure to get involved in the comments as we're going to be giving away a copy of Warhammer 40,000: Shadowspear when it gets released by Games Workshop.
God Emperor Trump
It bodes terribly for the world if this ever comes to pass, but we look at the satirical look at Donald Trump that popped up this week in Italy.
International Innovation Day
We want you to tell us your thoughts on what the next big innovation might be within the tabletop industry. This could be something that you think could be coming in the next few years or potentially further down the line.
Make sure to drop your comments below as we'll be picking from these to find our competition winner this week!
News
We take a peek at some of the news from this week...
- Shadowspear - We're looking at the big new Battlebox coming soon from Games Workshop
- Punkapocalyptic - Check out the two-player Starter Set from Bad Roll Games
- KeyForge - A new set of cards are dropping for the Unique Card Game
- Ragnarok - Get ready for full on heavy metal Viking combat!
- Star Wars: Outer Rim - Do you like the idea of this new board game?
- D&D Stranger Things - An awesome new box is coming where you play through the adventure the kids planned!
What caught your eye from the news?
Newbury & Hobbes Game Announcement!
Needy Cat Games and George Mann are joining forces to create a new board game based on the hit book series. Mann will be writing the narrative elements of this Steampunk sleuthing game which features mysteries and investigations that branch out into an expanding story.
Kickstarter
We take a peek at two projects live on Kickstarter.
- Bring History Into Your Home - A great array of 2D standees for Historical wargaming
- PARKS: The Board Game - Wander the wonderful national parks of America and collect mementoes
Which of these two will you be backing?
Competition - Win Warhammer 40,000: Shadowspear!
We want you to talk about innovation in the comments and if you're picked you'll get the new Battlebox from the team at Games Workshop featuring Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.
We also have the winner from last week's show who got their hands on a copy of Carrion Empire. You can check to see if you won HERE and Claim Your Prize.
Have a great weekend!
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1st?
Oh come on man , you’re first ….. gloat a little, exult in your magnificence, ….. don’t be timid about it . This is the premier division, take what is yours!! Congratulations on your “firstliness”
Oh, alright…. Mha, Mhahaha, Mwhahahahahaha! The blessings of the God-Emperor Trump are upon me! I am his Primaris!
That’s much better !!!! I knew you could do it if you tried !!!
LOL
Still learning about the 40k tabletop, I played Forbidden Stars a few times with friends and got hooked on the universe. I’ve been going through the lore on the wiki WarhammerFandom and it feels infinite! I like the raggedy appearance of the chaos cultists and space marines but hadn’t really seen any models of their vehicles, the spider here is badass. Going through older chaos vehicles on google images now, it’s interesting to see the different styles – some vehicles are basically tanks painted red with some spikes, while others like the Forgefiend appear to be morbid Zoids, with animalistic… Read more »
Calling Trump a “god-emperor,” even in jest, literally the day after he declares a national State of Emergency to circumvent the constitutional oversight and budgetary controls of Congress …
If you guys stop hearing from me suddenly, it’s because something has finally cracked and we’re in the streets.
I think that will happen when it gets revealed that the slatted monstrosity is made of Chinese steel…
(if anything at all gets built, would be amazed if it gets resolved in the courts while the comb over is in office)
Hadrian’s Wall, the Great Wall of China, the Berlin Wall …not only do they never work, but are one of an empire’s first signs … that the empire is afraid, that it is weak, and that it is starting to crumble.
So let’s hope you’re right, and it never gets built. Or if it does, it takes taken down by the next administration.
@oriskany
Well said Sir!
My faith in US democracy is still strong and in at least six years the Donald dictator will have to find another TV show to host. We, on the other hand, will have to live with what we’ve done for a long time to come.
The most successful dictators always have simple answers to complex questions. These answers usually wrong and extremely costly. History has shown that a desperate migrant with a ladder will eventually beat any wall.
Am I the only one who wonders why those ‘standees’ didn’t just use photos of historical re-enactors?
they would need to get the image rights of re-enactors to mass produce and sell them world wide would require different forms to fill in depending on country of origin. I imagine it was easier to go for realistic faces than to use actual people. Also at the amounts they’re making they’d have needed a lot of models as well. So like everything cost was probably the greatest factor.
@avernos that said something like this could circumvent all that
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/14/ai_created_photos/
that is incredible @timchubb
terrifying but incredible all the same lol
@warzan Shame it ruins a bunch of terminator lore, if nvidia can generate many faces how come timetravelling sky net can only manage one (I don’t acknowledge salvation or genesis as being cannon) t1000 and above don’t count as they are polymimetic alloy ?
Thanks very much @suetoniuspaullinus and @horus500 . Yeah, the law is on our side, decency and human rights are on our side, and oh yeah … we outnumber them, too. It didn’t matter in the stolen election of 2016, but we made it matter in the 2018 mid-terms. Now we just have to make it matter in 2020.
Not sure some of the comment above was necessary @oriskany esspecially if the objective is to drop it?
I was supporting / thanking people who were supporting me. Not many people do these days.
they did have forts in Caledonia (Scotland) but they fell down for some resin. Lol
My Faith in the US is within the courts and the House (My wife is American, so I keep an eye on what is happening over the pond) but I do despair at what happened this past week.
Hi guys while I appreciate the frustration, let’s maybe lay this thread to rest, we have to bear in mind that other folk may feel differently and vote differently and that is 100% their right.
Regardless of that folk are welcome here to enjoy toy soldiers regardless of what real world politics they may learn towards.
So it’s probably a conversation best left parked?
I agree. This is for hobby; not religion or politics ( i call them PR )but a good point is Made, you opened the door by even mentioning it. Please keep all religion and politics (sorry to say this includes brexit) off site. For a guide, check out oriskany’s middle East wars in his ops center site/series, totally historical but no politics…and the middle East is so PR in its history.
Yep I know I started it…
I invaded Poland! 😉
I do still want the statue though lol
Well said! I thought @oriskany did a great job of only giving us the history without inflecting personal thoughts or agendas.
Thanks, @tacticalgenius and @templar007 . I can use all the support I can get these days. 😀 This is for hobby; not religion or politics – Indeed, I was a little surprised to see the Trump imagery, and the characterization of “dim witted” in there. Not that I disagree at all, but if the conversation was started … Honestly, I’m prepared to give the team a little benefit of the doubt here. I know these episodes are filmed earlier in the week. That might explain why the Sitrep / Ops Center wasn’t mentioned, or how the Trump angle popped in… Read more »
Yep filmed Thursday morning as usual.
The Trump thing was about the GW legal team running round in circles not knowing what to do or who to C&D 🙂
Look, @warzan, multiple people are having a bad day here, so in an attempt (perhaps belated) to cool things down …
I get it. I see what happened, but I’ll be quiet about it.
Have a great week. 😀
the Guide to the middle east wars is really great from a military historical point of view. why the fighting occurs is another matter, hopefully not for this website. review history by the battles, etc and not how it all started ( how far back do you want to go to assign blame) let’s leave that for classrooms and debate club’s. hobby is hobby.
@Warzan this sort of topic came up not long ago when we were discussing what should or shouldn’t be turned into games. At the time I mentioned the Battle of the Boyne and the Middle East, Nazis and Vietnam all of which we can all still feel the wounds of today. Oriskany brought up the conflict in the Ukraine which is ongoing. I can’t help but think war and politics are two sides of the same coin.
Cool deal, @tacticalgenius 😀 I would only add to that … everyone in the community keeps saying (and rightfully so) how narrative is such an important part of wargaming. Totally correct. Well, what is narrative in a wargame BUT the background, context, and WHY the combatants are fighting and how it all started. So I honestly think it should be addressed, if carefully … At least to an extent. As you say, how far back do you want to go to assign blame (although the Israeli-Palestine conflict is a remarkably YOUNG conflict, despite what some people say). I feel the… Read more »
I wonder if there’s perhaps a difference in senses of humour here. You may have heard Lloyd say that it made him want to watch Spitting Image again. Open mockery of the political class has been a part of the British way of life and a staple of our sense of humour for a very long time dating back at least to the early 1800s and the Punch magazine. So things like the God Emperor Trump model (and the Trump Baby Blimp that was crowd funded in London) are, for the most part, funny to the British audience. Margaret Thatcher… Read more »
hey @onlyonepinman the puppet that sticks out most in my mind is the gray John Major, who then got a radio stuck on his head. No idea why lol.
@Lloyd John and Norma having dinner were amazing. The way he was constantly talking about Virginia Bottomly while they ate their peas, that were also a weird grey colour. Absolutely amazing. I reckon, with today’s crop of no-hopers the spitting image team would have a field day. Sadly because everyone has gotten so tribal nobody would watch or if they did would constantly complain about it being offensive because it mocked their particular flavour of politician.
https://youtu.be/FHvUarwTlck
I have a lot of sympathy for the next couple of generations, as a life of walking on egg shells doesn’t sound easy to me at all. I feel quite fortunate to have seen how satire and comedy lifted societies and the impact of light hearted looks at the hard or mundane or ridiculous aspects of life – faulty towers, spitting image, only fools and horses, dads army, frankie howard, the carry on team and the list goes on. It played a big part in shaping who I am, and gave me a lot of tools in using humour as… Read more »
no bone spurs were harmed in the making of this post, an keep your powder dry man.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=watch+tower+song&&view=detail&mid=919A9CF2F6D86DAF87C0919A9CF2F6D86DAF87C0&&FORM=VRDGAR
Every time I hear that song, @zorg – I want to play Valor & Victory Vietnam! 😀
Well said @oriskany Scary stuff happening these days!
The historical parallels are disturbing, as is the number of people who still seem have faith in him – or who continue to pretend to for their own selfish reasons.
This is why people need to learn world history instead of just they own country’s history and educate themselves so that they aren’t ignorant and that they don’t repeat mistakes of past.
Thanks very much, @angelicdespot , gotta say I agree 100%. 😀 😀 😀 And while I appreciate everyone’s support (seriously, I’ve been at the keyboard for eight hours today on OTT, Skype, PMs, e-mails, etc etc etc), we have been asked to suspend this line of conversation. Honestly I think an unlucky timing of events on Thursday (filming), Friday (news event), and today (broadcast) turned what was meant to be a fun joke for today’s episode into something completely different. Nobody seems to be offended or in disagreement (at least on this issue, Star Wars seems to be another matter),… Read more »
Yeah, sorry @oriskany I posted a reply before scrolling down and seeing how many comments there had already been, along with the ‘cease and desist’ for the sake of everyone’s sanity from @warzan
Mercifully I’m someone who merely quite likes Star Wars, so don’t really have a dog in that fight!
Hey, @angelicdespot – please feel no need to apologize not me. Not my call. I make no calls. 😀 😀 And again, on this topic we seem to be of one mind.
And on Star Wars as well. I enjoy it casually. Well, most of it. Starships, ground battles, and starfighters. Not so much the droids and Jedi and Force in general. Eckardsladder is a fun YouTube channel, listening to him now while I draw a map for tomorrow’s Arab-Israeli Wars game. 😀
Happy Weekend!!
Let’s not openly discuss whether we’ll be in the streets or not over an open line. It just makes easier for the bots to find you… :O
@avernos, back in the day, Black Templars couldn’t take Librarians as they were filthy psychers … Has that changed with the new edition and time jump?
@hobbyhub I think that already changed when they lost their own codex and went into the overall space marine codex.
That’s sad to hear @caledor2. I really liked that piece of the fluff.
I can remember way back when the US had a separate website and team looking after it. They had converted up Librarians for a couple of Chapters, one of which was a Black Templar, for a page of content. I pointed out their mistake and they changed the text to reflect the goof.
Reading the paragraph a black box at the bottom of page 45 of the current codex they still don’t field Librarians but they have left the door open for them to field Librarians in the future…. (with their new progressive story line)
I’m just awaiting the time when RG finds out that there are more than 1,000 marines in the Chapter…. He ain’t gonna be pleased that they aren’t following his carefully written book.
probably, who knows, with the speed GW retcons their own backgrounds I find it best to not pay attention to anything they do. My 40K is safe and GW can never touch it.
Well I have been in this game for about25/30 years and it seems to me that more flexibility is the future. Size of games types of games rules for games, it’seems all good!
I think flexibility is the key. But also in the community and players as well as the rule sets etc.
great post!
Amidst all this talk of cardboard armies and wanting to learn about new periods of history through gaming, perhaps even with something of a biblical angle … Episode 02 of the Sitrep Ops Center is live on YouTube and OnTableTop – linked below. https://www.beastsofwar.com/board-games/sitrep-ops-six-day-war-part-2/ We talk about the 1967 Six Day War between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. That includes battles in places like Jericho, Bethlehem, and of course Jerusalem. Game systems discussed include Fate of a Nation, The Arab Israeli Wars, Panzer Grenadier: The Sword of Israel, GHQ Micro Armour, and Six Days of War by High Flying Dice… Read more »
A really good podcast @oriskany 🙂 I jumped into Team Yankee French and with the new Oil Wars inbound… 😀
Thanks very much, @yavasa . Indeed, I haven’t always “agreed” (if that’s the right word) with the way Battlefront handles certain things, but I’ve been shouting from the rooftops that they have really stepped it up when it comes to fixes to Team Yankee. 1) Fixed much of the Soviet Army background from Coyle / Hackett books with the Red Thunder release. 2) Fixed “Fate of a Nation” by re-releasing it under the Team Yankee header instead of the Flames of War header. This allows the Team Yankee rule system to include thinks like the Yom Kippur War (a far… Read more »
@Oriskany at risk of preaching to the choir, I think you could say they produced the first true land battleship as the very first WWI ones were going to be called (or words to that effect). However, we could say that only the WWI tanks could be named so as when covered up on there way to the front they looked like the “water tanks” they were disingenuously named.
@dt73 – oh, absolutely. They called them tanks because they were shipped over in disguised crates labeled “water tanks,” sure. And they came out before the FT-17, or the St. Chamond, or the Scheider (St. Chamond or Schneider would not qualify as tanks under subsequent definitions, either). 😀 But the definition of the word “tank” very quickly changed after that, as in by the 1930s, when assault guns and tank destroyers self-propelled howitzers started making an appearance. One key required feature of a “tank” = a revolving turret. Hence the purely academic comment about the “retcon”. 😀 I don’t expect… Read more »
@Oriskany – totally agree with what you say, but of course one day the definition will change again to include a self-targeting, self-loading, tracked robot with a fully rotating turret and gun with a 100° range of elevation…….?
It makes me remember the Family Guy episode in which Peter hosted the “What Grinds My Gears” show on TV or something like that… I believe 😀 @oriskany I have been watching Team Yankee develop and talked to some guys from my town that actually were several ETC winners for the 3rd ed of FoW. They talked me into Team Yankee when they dropped FoW when 4th ed came out. We shall see how this goes. I will probably start a project Yavasa’s Team Yankee. I miss Syria in the Oil Wars expansion.
@yavasa – “… several ETC winners for the 3rd ed of FoW. They talked me into Team Yankee when they dropped FoW when 4th ed came out. ”
Would this be Mike and Igor? I met them at the 4th Edition FOW Boot Camp, and they had some connection to ETC. Fantastic guys.
Now that GW has done a ‘chaos box’ I’m hoping for diversity with battle boxes.
For AoS an elves Vs dwarves box or dwarves Vs goblins for example.
And for 40k something without marines would be good. (Forgebane at least had ‘not quite marines’)
As it stands, most of the two player boxes are just a cheap half army for lot of people.
more Eldar would be good ..
and #bringBackSquats !
I concur #bringBackSquats Sing it brother
Although I like the idea of short bearded fellows in the future… I always felt that squats was a poor choice of name…
Squat makes me think of taking a dump in the forest…
And dwarves in a forest is just asking for trouble… what with that pointy eared lot lurking in the bushes…
It’s the Weekend!
Got an idea for you – but as my tablet is playing up (3rd attempt at entering this comment) I need a proper keyboard… which is ironic given my idea.
hurry up @coxjul the suspense is killing me lol
You asked for it,,, it may be a bit big but…
Justin (@dignity) isn’t too far off the mark, though mixed in with a bit of Warren’s (@warzan) augmented reality… (although if you’rer going to disappear inside a 3d headset you may as well go fully virtual and play a video game). Dynamic surfaces (in a nutshell)! Take Justin’s playing surface that can sense where components are but turn it into an animated screen. The streams are flowing, the wheat is swaying in the wind… place a mill building near the stream and the screen builds a mill pond and adds a pathway out of the door… you drag a road… Read more »
work. of. genius. mate
i love it
Was shown off in 2008 and was aimed at schools
https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-surface-pixelsense-table
Awesome, @grimwolfuk ! Thanks for sharing! 😀 I’ll admit, I could have some fun with a device like this.
It’s long over but it is still funny: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1658344233/make-your-collection-of-miniatures-great-again?ref=profile_starred
Shadowspear looks amazing. I can’t wait to get this!
Good Morning… Good Morning…. yup yup it’s that time for the weekender show – amazing giveaways 🙂 number 1 show for our beloved hobby
Normie? This sums up the problem.
What problem is that, I’m not sure I understand?
Creating a ‘them and us’, ‘gamer and normie’ false dichotomy, and then trying to ‘recruit a normie’. Why would gamers want to think themselves in to a box? Gamers are people and people are gamers. Playing games is a fundamental part of what makes us human…Homo Ludens.
Whilst I can see that this was meant as a bit of a joke it betrays a fundamental problem in how some gamers perceive themselves and the hobby.
or it’s just a bit of self deprecating humour and doesn’t need that level of analysis.
if you go looking for issues @tankkommander dont be surprised if you find them 🙂
Technically there is a “them” and an “us” in that there are two distinct sets of people. Wargamers (us) and Non Wargamers, aka normal people (them).
So in what ways are war/gamers not ‘Normal’ people?
Because we’re fabulous? 🙂
So Modestly so with Warzan.
lol 😀
Well for a start most of us are quite happy to self deprecate.
It’s healthy too apparently lol
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/self-deprecating-humour-greater-psychological-wellbeing-link-study-university-of-granada-spain-a8207976.html
I’m hoping it’s only going to be in my latter years that I will need assistance in deprecating
Happy weekend guys, I do like the new librarian a lot. I find it really nice that he is wearing gloves rather than gauntlets.
Innovations seem to be on the up with 3d printers coming down in price and going up in quality.
I wonder how long it will be before films and TV series can have their images or stills scanned using software to build a cad file for any individual character, monster or diorama. You would then pay a fee to download it to your PC 3d printer.
It would be a great tool to game in the gaps.
I would imagine it’s not far off mate!
Microsoft and Google etc are working on systems that take 2d images and create 3d interpretations of them.
Sir Pete did that with his WWI doc recently – changed 2d films to 3d, colourised them and rendered that back to 2d. It looked pretty good.
Soldiers running around my table, I don’t think I would like that. They might revolt because I let them die too much.
Nothing says weekend like the weekender
Innovation: perhaps a “woo” muffler for warrens microphone as my poor daughter, who had been nicely cosied up on my Wargamers belly asleep almost jumped out of her skin at his over excited woo( and I’m a chaos player so I’m very excited at moment) 🙂
lol woo muffler is now officially on the list 🙂
Happy weekend! Next year I hope to see a giant Warmaster Trump in a parade.
Innovations wise, maybe a technical solution to create fog of war. Moving the concealed units in an app and only being revealed by enemy troops or scans.
Dont know If it gets old, but “thank you” guys! Thank you for your show, thank you for the prices and thank you for your enthusiasm. Keep up the great Work!
I hope they retcon the primaris. They were rebuilt from the shattered legions that Malcador secreted away as part of the knights errant. Stuck in stasis. Unable to be awoken because Malcador got fried on the Golden Throne. Cawl used this raw stock of marines that had been on ice. Anyways new miniatures look fantastic.
ARRRGGGGGHHHHH for the love of whichever deity you worship if you going to talk about Star Wars please get your information correct (it’s called research). 1. The Mandalorian is a TV series (NOT A FILM!) that is coming to the Disney streaming service (Disney+) at the end of this year. The series showrunner is Jon Favreau (Iron Man) and is set between episode 6 and 7. One of the executive producers is Dave Filoni (Clone Wars, Rebels and Resistance). 2. On November 8, 2018, it was announced that a live-action prequel series was officially in development and set to go… Read more »
” but also the toxic fan base that appeared after the release of the Last Jedi” Toxic is a very strong word. As someone who was extremely disappointed after the Last Jedi and didn’t see Solo in the theaters out of protest there was nothing “toxic” about it at all. Solo is a great movie. Any ship is now a WMD that can kill anything with hyper drive, Leia randomly has the force but we all knew that the actress was dead so that loose end was never going to be reconciled, a total lack of autopilot, keeping secrets from… Read more »
I quite enjoyed Jast Jedi but thought solo was a pretty poor execution of not a great idea.
I didnt feel particularly toxic at the time nor was I in anyway feeling under pressure because it was a second star wars movie in 6 months. I had managed to save up my £3.50 for cheapy Tuesday screenings by that stage 🙂
I use the Toxic as it was for a very small group who decided that having a woman or a character of colour as a lead was a bad idea and took to social media and the consequences of which mention that the attacks on these actors drove them off the platforms (Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran). I understand people have a difference of ideas but when they take to attack people because of who they are that does create a very toxic environment.
It was descried as toxic on one of the Star Wars Vid/Pod casts I follow. By one fellow in particular who now has a planet named after him in a couple of the novels, so he is now part of canon.
I know who you mean as I use to watch that weekly Vodcast 🙂
@grimwolfuk Virtually nobody has complained about either Female or Black leads. The people saying that are such a tiny minority, they’re just the excuse Disney is using for their own failures. Star Wars, certainly the main sagas, is facing one major problem, just the one, poor writing; poor writing of stories and poor writing of characters. It’s not toxic to say you don’t like something, even if that something is a female lead or a black lead. Both characters are weak although Finn improves slightly in TLJ. I can honestly say, hand on heart that I think Finn, Rey, Kylo… Read more »
https://medium.com/@matthewkadish/proof-rey-from-the-last-jedi-is-a-mary-sue-storycraft-72cb51aefd2b Rey is not a good character. A male Rey would he just as bad. She can swim despite growing up in a desert, she can do almost anything despote no formal raining and she’s extremely well adjusted for someone who gre up an orphan all alone. Also on the hyperdrive issue you could just get a dense lump of something and strap a hyperdrive to it and there you go. What’s Rey’s crippling flaw? Every good character needs a major flw or flaws that effect them but Rey doesn’t seem to have any. She’s an orphan but so what?… Read more »
A few points: – The ship = WMD – Did you see the amount of damage that caused? And the fact that it was the Resistance’s last ship? Yes, it makes hyperspace ramming a powerful weapon, but the cost makes it prohibitive for a day-to-day tactic, which is why you’d never seen it before. – Leia “randomly having the Force” – the viewers were told Leia had the force back in Empire Strikes Back. She may not have had any training in how to use it for levitation, but neither had Luke when he pulled his lightsaber from the snow… Read more »
I agree with most of the above actually. But I will admit the Rey 5 minute force thing bothers me a bit too. If I’m honest I also think Luke ‘got off lightly’ too but I’ve never really been able to clearly determine exactly how long he trained with. 1) Ben kenobi before the death star assault 2) How much influence Ben’s force ghost had on him during that and after uptown the point of telling him to go to degobah 3) how long he actually spent on degobah 4) during his training with Yoda and between the two sessions… Read more »
The thing is: it’s Star Wars. It’s always been very vague with how it’s primary Force users get their powers. Anakin was the only human podracer because of his innate Force abilities even when he was a 9 year old child with no knowledge or experience of the Force. We’ve never actually seen any Force training where anyone is taught to do anything – they are taught to breathe and feel the Force flow thorugh them. That’s about it. That’s all Obi-Wan or Yoda ever taught Luke, and Rey was told that by Maz Kanata before she ever went off… Read more »
Yeah, you would expect them to really only use hyperspace ramming in the most desperate of circumstances which is probably why we haven’t seen it before. For example, hypothetically speaking if the Empire built a mobile space station bearing weapons capable of destroying entire planets. Twice. Something like that would probably justify a hyperspace ram. Although I still don’t understand why Holdo hsd to stay behind and pilot it, surely they have autopilot for that kind of thing. Or just leave a droid behind to do it. That Said Holdo is thoroughly detestable so I am not shouting too loudly… Read more »
Funny you should point out the Rogue One scene. That kind of shows why ramming the Death Star(s) wouldn’t have worked. Rogue one shows us that a ship of relatively low mass doesn’t really do any damage against something much bigger. In The Last Jedi, Holdos ship was much bigger, and crashed into a ship that wasn’t much bigger (relatively speaking) than it. That apparently makes a difference in fictional FTL travel-ramming. As for why Holdo had to stay behind? Who knows? But logic dictates that it would have been sensible for Hyperspace computers to have some form of safety… Read more »
My point is really that there’s an inconsistency that’s all. If I am honest, a ship moving faster than light should absolutely obliterate anything it collides with, even an x-wing. A ship at that speed is essentially performing the same function as a slug fired from a railgun (Halo MAC cannons, railguns in Mass Effect). But there’s clearly a reason in Star Wars, albeit unexplained, why they don’t and why it doesn’t work. And it’s shown not to work in Rogue One. However based on what we see in Last Jedi, something like a cruiser should have absolutely destroyed the… Read more »
You’re applying real-world physics to what is a fantasy universe in space. Star Wars has simply never had that sort of realism, and thats by design. To accept that magic space wizardry can allow a farmboy in his first outing in a fighter to hit a tiny target on a giant death ball after avoiding numerous lasers (and the torpedo itself decides to randomly shift 90 degrees to hit said target) but complain that the hyperspace ramming maneuver is not realistic is just bizarre. Plus, the tactic would never have been suggested at either of the Death Star battles. At… Read more »
I am appealing to real world physics (and indeed logic) because real world physics and logic still apply. Whilst there’s obviously lore that implies the denizens of the galaxy far far away have mastered other areas of science that we have not and can work around some of those physical laws, there’s no evidence that any of the physical laws as we understand them don’t apply. It’s called verisimilitude, without it stories tend to be less relatable and believable. But like I said, the only thing I am really pointing out is that it’s a massive inconsistency. My point isn’t… Read more »
Except there isn’t an inconsistency. You’re choosing to assume an inconsistency because something was never shown on screen before that. That’s not the same thing. And Star Wars has clearly played fast and loose with the laws of physics in the past, whether it’s fixed length laser swords, or telekinesis, or super powerful lasers capable of destroying planets, yet this one (actually closer to realistic, by your own definition) scene is inconsistent simply because it has never been shown before? I don’t buy it. And I don’t think it needs explaining after the film. That’s kind of my point. Star… Read more »
Of course there’s an inconsistency, the inconsistency of why something like has never been tried before. Ramming has been part of naval warfare here for centuries, millennia even, so it stands to reason that they would be well aware of such a tactic and that speed and mass play a huge part in its effectiveness. If it were indeed possible to perform a hyperspace collision/ram it WOULD have been tried before. What we actually see in TLJ with the hyperspace collision is inconsistent with what has gone before. There’s never been an example of it happening and so it is… Read more »
While it’s completely understandable that in fantasy rules are there to be stretched or broken. I think there is a point to be made about the continuity of that particular scene. I went to see the movie in the cinema twice (maybe 3 times) I enjoyed the spectacle of it very much. I took my kinds to one and to another I took my mum and sister. My sister knows starwars but you would say shes a very casual fan – nothing die hard. It was interesting that just as that scene played out she turned to me (the only… Read more »
That’s not an inconsistency though. It’s not inconsistent to say ‘lets try something that hadn’t been seen before.’
It does leave some questions about future instalments, but that’s for them to explain away. It doesn’t make the new act inconsistent with anything.
The inconsistency isn’t the trying of something new, it’s the lack of explanation as to why it works now when it hasn’t worked in the past. Ramming is neither a subtle nor complex so why hasn’t it been done before? That’s the inconsistency.
Ramming has been fine before (Rogue One with the Hammerhead Corvette is the notable example).
Hyperspace ramming is something else entirely. Given that the hyperdrive system is based on complex calculations to avoid collisions, the idea of using hyperspace ramming as a weapon isn’t going to be a tactic at the forefront of any commanders mind. And so it hadn’t been used before, on film at least. That’s completely understandable and not inconsistent.
The Hammerhead rams at sub-lightspeed hence it doesn’t do the same damage. Lower speed = lower kinetic energy. None of your explanation about hyperspace ramming is invalid, but there’s nothing in your explanation that was impossible in all of the preceding films. The technology required to perform a hyperspace ram in TLJ is the same as that available throughout all star wars films. It’s also exactly the kind of thing you would develop a computer algorithm for (or use a droid to perform). It’s always been possible to do, so why hasn’t it? By not doing it on film before… Read more »
All of the other things you claim are playing fast and loose are believable because of either our acceptance of the existence of the Force or the technology gap as shown in the film. They are also all consistent between films. Fixed Length Laser Swords – sure we don’t know how to make one but it is conceivable that a society as far ahead technologically as Star Wars might just know a thing or two about science that we don’t. So we accept it as possible. Crucially though, light sabres are consistent throughout all films, the only noticeable differences being… Read more »
Your entire argument is based on an assumption that anyone at any point in galactic history would have thought hyperspace ramming was a sensible tactic. What is much more likely is that horrific hyperspace accidents actually put people off trying to do anything hyperspace-related that might have been dangerous. Why wasn’t the tactic used before? Who knows? But just off the top of my head, I can see an argument that the Rebellion would have been concerned about collateral damage. Perhaps the Death Star was too close to Yavin 4? Perhaps at Endor, the concern was about wiping out the… Read more »
Not a sensible tactic, a desperate tactic. The sort of tactic you might use when you have very few options available. Were the Reb… Resistance desperate in TLJ? Yes. Was this the most desperate situation we have ever seen in a Star Wars film? No. I would argue Yavin was more desperate and also time constrained. If Hyperspace Ramming were a plausible, if somewhat desperate, tactic then Yavin was the place to do it. With only a small window of opportunity to destroy the Death Star before it fires and destor the entire Rebel Alliance, if you had two options,… Read more »
When I talk about the explosion, I don’t mean the destruction of the Death Star. The explosion in TLJ was far bigger than the explosion of a single ship would have been, due to the force of the ram. As for desperate situations: I’d argue that, for the Resistance, their circumstances were more desperate because they couldn’t escape from the First Order. If X-Wings had hyperdrives (something we didn’t find out until Empire Strikes Back) then they could have run away from the Death Star. A lot of people would have died, but some would have escaped. In TLJ, the… Read more »
No its not. In fact when the Raddus rams the supremacy there isn’t an explosion as such. The Raddus disintegrates and the Supremacy is cut in two, it is disabled but it doesn’t actually explode. Flying straight through the centre if the Death Star would probably cause an explosion though, of the exact same magnitude as detonating it via a proton torpedo. https://i2.wp.com/qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-04ae3cbd0b63770483f021e9b7c34334 Not the size of explosion I would expect. Not an explosion at all really. This really isn’t about trying something new, it’s about why something as simple as a high speed ramming manoeuvre is considered “new” in… Read more »
Explosion is probably the wrong word. It was more of an implosion. But it clearly affected a far greater area of space than just the two colliding ships. But I feel like we’re going round in circles. You seem to think that because something has never been shown before that makes it an unviable tactic, so showing it at a later point makes no sense. But that line of thinking is because you are placing artificial limits on what is possible based on what has been visible. But there could be several reasons why the tactic was never used against… Read more »
It sems to me that it affects exactly the amount of space that you would expect from two ships colliding at high speed. It doesn’t seem to either explode or implode, it breaks up on impact, much like an aircraft does when it crashes. I also totally disagree that writers are limited purely to what has been seen before. Introducing new things is both desirable and necessary but they have to be explained, especially if they appear to contradict previous films. TLJ fails to do this on a number of occasions. Star Wars has never necessarily tried to be physics… Read more »
@Warzan I suspect that there’s a few things that are a lot more difficult in future. As well as hyperspace ramming now being a reality in Star Wars, the whole “tracking through Hyperspace” (another Deus Ex Machina moment) means that suddenly the Reb… Resistance can no longer use hit and run tactics, the Emp… First Order will know exactly where they flee to and just follow them. So I suspect that the Reb… Resistance are going to have to science up some kind of tech doobery to disguise their Hyperspace trails or something. Which in turn mostly just undermines the… Read more »
Hyperspace ramming has been talked to death elsewhere. The issue with Princess Leia isn’t so much that she has the force, but more that the amount of time she spent in the vacuum would be fatal. It is estimated that 15 seconds is about the survival limit in a vacuum and even then you require significant medical attention as a result. She’s out in space, unconscious, for much longer than that. Then she suddenly regains consciousness, transforms into Mary Poppins and floats safely back to the ship and doesn’t seem to have suffered much by way of lasting damage as… Read more »
There is possibility that either Force Projection was lost force ability (there are lot of lost or forbidden force abilities) that Luke had to learn from writings that he discovered during his journey to seek lost knowledge of Jedi or it’s too dangerous force ability to use unless user is willing to sacrifice himself or herself. I am not sure if it was explained in one of novels so I can only speculate possible reason why that was first time that we know of it was used. No one seems to complain about any other Force Abilities that Jedi and… Read more »
There’s lots of possibilities for everything, that’s not the issue. Golden rule of film is Show, don’t tell. TLJ does neither, it just leaves game changing events and actions unexplained. And that’s the issue, it does so many things without even telling how or why they’re only possible now despite everything we have seen in previous films suggesting they have always been possible, they just haven’t been done. The issue, a total lack of exposition or explanation about any of those things.
And yet, despite having better things to do, here you are. It’s obviously important enough for you to hold and voice an opinion. And none of your potential explanations of why Rey might be as highly skilled and competent are mostly speculation, don’t explain everything (piloting, really?) nor do they actually stop her being a Mary Sue. It’s a bit like superman – it’s right there in the lore why he’s basically invincible. He’s still boring and he’s still a Garry Stu. Rey has no flaws, no fallibility and experiences no real struggle. All of the best characters are flawed… Read more »
The issue with Force Projection is that it seems to run counter to anything that’s happened before but it’s also just lazy. Like, we want Luke to refuse to travel with Rey but still be there to save the day. It’s Deus Ex Machina. It’s basically breaking with precedent set in previous films for no reason other than to service bad writing. Much like the Hyperspace Ramming.
Great post
would you like a ladder to get down from that high horse? 😉
Mate we are just having a conversation about it – it’s not a presentation it’s just some dudes having a chat about their thoughts and feelings.
There is no need for ‘last straws’ or passive aggressive ‘it’s called research’ or for you to feel anyway personally slighted. 🙂
Just post your opinions and facts and sleep soundly in the knowledge that it’s really valued by the team and we do read it and take it on board 🙂
@warzan – “it’s not a presentation it’s just some dudes having a chat”.
But it is in a section called “News”, not “5 blokes having a laugh”.
I can see where @grimwolfuk feels pain – I posted on the same topic, but his comment hit the servers first. Different people feel things differently. Opinions are treated as facts by some, especially when there is no clear delineation by the originator….
Welcome to 2019 (wink).
your welcome to Express your pain without saltiness and preferably with a touch of recognition of the context in which the chats happen 🙂
Thanks Dude hit the nail on the head.
Just a slip of the tongue about the Mandalorian series. Either way, I think it’s going to be cool.
I bet £10 it wont 😉 lol
Thanks @brennon…. Disney/Lucasfilm are sure to provide FFG with reasons to get money from our wallets.
Well said on the time line However, on the Solo movie, they had no clue what they wanted to do and it could have been better. There was a solo trilogy written by Ann C. Crispin that had an excellent origin story of Han Solo that they basically tossed in the trash. Disney also wanted a single movie instead of having a trilogy mostly because Disney wants to do away with the original story so they can go on with their own IP so they can amp up their money making marketing train. Failure of Solo can point to many… Read more »
I didn’t watch solo in a theatre because I just don’t think it was a movie that needed making. A Solo origin story? Star Wars was his origin story. Prior to Star Wars Solo was a nobody, a minor villain at best, by the end of Return of the Jedi he was a galactic hero; that’s an origin story right there. I watched Solo on bluray about a month ago and it was a decent enough watch, but it wasn’t Han Solo. If Disney hadn’t traded on the name and just made a Heist Movie in Space that film would… Read more »
Innovation is a tricky one. In many ways it’s fhe traditional aspects of tabletop gaming that are what get me fired up. Collecting and painting models and using them in games. The models have to be gaming pieces or I’m not interested, even if I never get to play games with them. And anything digital (over and above list building) detracts from the experience for me. And when we think innovation we mostly think digital. So what innovation would improve my tactile gaming experience? One thing would be to improve on clear bases. A model base that could take on… Read more »
Just a bit of info for Star Wars fan, who may not follow these things… Disney is starting a streaming service, presently in late 2019 just in the US, called Disney+. It will have content for Star Wars and the MCU. There are two SW series being worked on at the moment. From Stawars.com “The Mandalorian” is set after the fall of the Empire and before the emergence of the First Order. We follow the travails of a lone gunfighter in the outer reaches of the galaxy far from the authority of the New Republic. The series will be written… Read more »
and to add something here is a picture of the Mandalorian
I have absolutely no intention of paying for Disney’s streaming service. At present I pay for Netflix and Amazon Prime, there’s no way I am paying for a third streaming service just so I can watch Star Wars – I will just buy the DVDs, it’s much cheaper. It’s absolutely ridiculous that every TV company is now trying to start their own streaming service (CBS are doing it with Star Trek in the USA). The market will become saturated and some are likely to fail and at the moment I prefer the variety (and originality) offered by Amazon and Netflix.… Read more »
Yeah MCU – 3 series staring the actors from the films, so Loki, The Vision and Scarlett Witch, The Falcon and Winter Soldier – not sure if the last one is rumour or has been announced. For soma parents it is an easy choice – rather than having a big collection of physical copies of Disney films for the kids to watch. And after the Fox/Disney combination, they will have 60% ish of the film market. At some point the streamers will stop producing DVDs as a way to force some people onto the service. It doesn’t help those on… Read more »
That’s the issue “for some parents”, that’s not good enough to challenge Netflix or Amazon that have a very broad appeal, including children
Easy to watch the shows I like on netflix as I binge them like everyone else, unsub for a month, binge on whatever disney has, unsub, head back to netflix or whatever else is peaking my interest. I only sub to amazon from time to time as it doesnt have many shows that I am interested in. You’re not tied into these services. So more choice is only good. If youre going to sub every month to every platform that shows up then that would be an issue, so just dont do that, pick and choose.
I don’t want to have to constantly keep chopping and changing which streaming services I am subscribed to and neither do most other people, which is why I won’t be subscribing to Disney. I suspect other people may also take the same approach too. I just can’t see a streaming service that contains only Disney content attracting many subscriptions. Pay per view maybe but certainly not subscriptions.
There were camo marines (camo Rhinos and Land Raiders too) in the days of Rogue Trader. I guess they dropped them as bright, flat colours are easier to paint. I love the idea, and I really like this librarian chap. Best Primaris I’ve seen.
The walking Blood Bowl helmet looks good, too.
but as you know full well there was also that quote from the leader of the Rainbow Warriors that camouflage is the colour of fear, so the camo marines (blood angels being attacked by orks if I remember right) are cowards 😉
lol the old grognard eye twitching still @avernos 😉
darn tootin Melonfarmer!
And we should all acknowledge the primacy of the Rainbow Warriors 😀
On innovation, pre-painted miniatures in a colour scheme of your choice would be my pick, particularly for ranked mass combat games. Whilst it would probably retard the hobby side of gaming, imagine how many people would give it a go if the painting aspect was made easier.
yeah I would love this too.