The Star Saga Kickstarter Launches From Mantic Games
September 26, 2016 by brennon
The latest Kickstarter from Mantic Games has launched, taking you into space for a dungeon crawling experience with a Sci-Fi twist. Will you be taking on the challenges of Star Saga?
So what exactly is Star Saga?
"Set in Mantic’s Warpath Universe, Star Saga: The Eiras Contract is a science fiction dungeon crawler for 2-5 players (with optional rules for solo play).
Featuring strong story-telling elements and immersive game scenarios, Star Saga: The Eiras Contract will see players guide a team of mercenaries on a mission to retrieve stolen technology from a highly guarded research facility deep beneath the surface of the planet Eiras.
In Star Saga you’ll take on platoons of minions and powerful alien bosses, and quickly discover there’s more to your mission than a simple case of corporate espionage. As the game unfolds you’ll be forced to make difficult decisions to stay alive as the story takes unexpected twists and turns."
The regular boxed game looks something like this...
Two sides will be battling it out here with the Mercenary heroes taking on the various bosses of this facility and their lackeys including Lab Technicians, Corporation Soldiers, and Plague Victims. The full contents include...
- Rulebook featuring tutorials and basic mechanics for novice adventurers and expanded rules for veteran players.
- The Eiras Contract Mission Book with 10 narrative adventures, including 2 introductory missions, plus character bios and the full story behind Eiras.
- High Quality Card Sheets with detailed floor tiles and counters
- 4 Character Cards
- Over 100 Game Cards for equipment, skills, and all the powers of the Nexus player.
- a selection of Custom Dice
- 32 Highly Detailed Miniatures including 4 mercenaries, 3 bosses, 24 minions, and a Kickstarter Exclusive BLAINE Figure.
- 10 plastic doors, and loads of scenery to fill out your game!
The Mercenaries you'll have on your side are (from left to right) Captain Erika Dulinsky, Combat Utility Robot B07153, Francesco ‘The Devil’ Selvaggio, and Wrath.
I reckon The Devil and Wrath are going to be two of the favoured characters for this game. The design of each of the characters does look great and I'll be very interested to see the final miniatures to see if the quality carries over into the end product.
Enemies you'll be facing include this trio of big bad guys.
Here we have (from left to right) Doctor Lucas Koyner, Organic Data Storage Unit X-02-A, and Guard Commander Graves. Each of them will be heading up different missions as you try and delve deeper into the facility.
Stretch Goals
At the moment their Stretch Goal (which will most likely be reached shortly) is to add some 3D terrain elements to the game to start giving you a more interesting tabletop experience.
Even as I type this they are likely to be hurtling towards the next stretch goal so go and check out the Kickstarter page for more information.
Demo Games & Interviews
The team at Mantic Games have already posted up a Gameplay Video (see the top of the page) showing off the Alpha Rules which can be downloaded HERE.
Also, if you want to know more about the background of the campaign you can watch the interview we did on The Weekender.
Will you be checking this one out?
"Star Saga: The Eiras Contract will see players guide a team of mercenaries on a mission to retrieve stolen technology from a highly guarded research facility deep beneath the surface of the planet Eiras..."
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
"The team at Mantic Games have already posted up a Gameplay Video..."
Supported by (Turn Off)
Please please please please please add some black borders to those tiles. I know it may require some kind of solution for those times where two tiles meet and you don’t or have a door to ‘connect’ them but I find those narrow corridors – especially the small 2×1 strips – infuriatingly insubstantial.
er.. “don’t have or want a door”
If I said yes to this comment anymore……..I’d literally have to rip the “Y”, “E” and “S” from my keyboard and smash them into the screen.
Without black borders they look like they’ve been stuck on a cereal box and cut out.
…and funded in less than 2 hours
of course it was.
It’s not like selling this as “dungeon saga … in space” was a difficult concept 😉
It’s looking good, too.
(my god mantic designed guns I like)
Standard Mantic Kickstarter. Very low value in the box to start with (32 minis for $100 is crap. You get better value in a GW big box game.) which will rise with stretch goals to a more appropriate level. Unlike DS, nothing in this box looks compelling. The heroes are bland. The enemies are bland. The board tiles are bland. The storyline is bland. I am sure it will do well as it is a Mantic Kickstarter but I’ll definitely be giving this one a wide berth. Only interesting thing for me is the stretch goal for terrain pieces. Will… Read more »
Standard reminder of how kickstarter is not a webshop so value for money is kind of irrelevant at this stage.
Yes, getting lots of stuff is cool and all, but that’s not what KS is about.
Besides … if BoW does a Star Saga bootcamp then it will be even more value for money to wait for that one 😉
Wooha, calm down their fella 😛
I have seen this a lot about, but to be honest I don’t understand it, not as in, on the other-side of the political divide don’t understand it looking down on someone, I am talking dunce in the corner don’t understand it.
There seems to be a lot of hate for Mantic Kickstarters, aren’t they a good way of funding projects? Is there any reason why they in particular are hated for their Kickstarters?
Just voicing my opinions.Other opinions are also available. No need for alarm.
…or is that not allowed?
In serious response to your query @caladors: My dislike of Mantic Kickstarters is due to the fact that from my previous experience, they use them to justify putting out a sub-par product. After all, its not a web store so you can’t expect a finished, polished product can you? That and the fact that they relentlessly push every single new release through KS which means people who really want to buy their products have to pay now and wait a year or so to receive their goods. Either that or wait even longer (in most cases) until general release. In… Read more »
@lunchbox it’s totally aloud, that is why I had tongue poking out smiley.
I couldn’t seem to find my response from before. So they release sub par stuff and they do it through something that allows them to operate poorly, and you want them to help out your local gaming store.
That’s cool I just wanted to know why you were upset about it.
People (mostly) understand what KS is and that it’s not a web store and so comes with inherent risks.
But people forget that it also entails risk for the company’s that use KS, namely fanbase dissatisfaction if they abuse it.
Generally people are very forgiving of KS company’s who manage to deliver their product. Even if it is different to what was promised.
Mantic however is a repeat offender and tends to deliver product that is substantially below the quality promised.
They only have themselves to blame really, people will only take so much
Considering how fast this funded I’m surprised how many people forget how shoddy Mantic Kickstarters are. You are correct though. Just more bland crap.
Your constant moaning about Mantic is bland…
I don’t moan about everything Mantic do, just the stuff that bears moaning about. Usually their new-shinies-via-Kickstarter obsession. You may be surprised to hear that I actually love some of their ranges, namely Undead and Forgefathers and think KoW is a pretty good game. Their terrain kits are fantastic also.
I moan because I see great potential that is IMO squandered by the constant need for new shiny things and the failed promises of their Kickstarters.
Ok, your constant moaning about their Kickstarters is bland.
Interesting enough to keep you responding though.
And Star Saga is obviously bland enough to keep you posting about it.
It is. I wish it weren’t. Maybe then I would back it as I love the idea of space-dungeon-crawlers ever since the original Space Crusade.
It’s also $100 for the game plus two expansions (character creator and mission creator) plus whatever stretch goals are unlocked. By the time it concludes there will be a lot more models in the box, if that’s what you’re concerned about (although buying Mantic games for their miniatures is probably your first mistake)
God forbid you buy a miniatures game from a miniatures manufacturer for the miniatures.
I do buy some games for the miniatures alone – I’ve backed several Kickstarters (quite heavily in fact) specifically for the miniatures. I just don’t buy from Mantic for the miniatures because they’re quite average.
Seems interesting. But i will wait out a bit for a pledge, i want to see more stuff, we haven’t seen the “skill” cards, that might add to the action…
After the mess they made of DS i am not touching this. Mantic made big (and very deceptive) promises but then a combination of cutting corners and applying their very unique style of incompetence left the backers with a real mess of a game (which they then blamed on the backers).
Plus this looks terrible.
Well thank god some people learned what their other Kickstarters have taught us.
I learned from my backing of previous Mantic Kickstarters that the final products are good, the miniatures are average and, like every other manufacturer of anything, the product they set out to make is not exactly the same as the one they end up making. It’s the nature of product development that things change as the project progresses. In terms of Dungeon Saga I got everything I was expecting, albeit structured slightly differently or sometimes in digital rather than printed format. But there certainly wasn’t anything missing. I wouldn’t ever back a Kickstarter with the expectation that it would be… Read more »
This looks really cheaply made, even for Mantic.
I would rather pay double price, and get some decent quality items.
What are you basing that on?
As they explain in the video, models are from Deadzone and Mars Attacks, furniture is from Deadzone (I have some of it, it’s by Antenoceti’s Workshop and is bloody marvellous), tiles are from Project Pandora, a very old board game of theirs.
These are not the game components.
I think he means it feels cheap and he doesn’t expect the new stuff to be any greater than the old stuff. The fact that they have no new stuff to show off at launch tells me that a lot of dodgy figures will be rushed through production to fill pledges. Nothing inspires confidence more than trying to cram stuff in at the last minute.
But how can it feel cheap when they’re not using the actual game components? It can only really feel like what it is, a demo using a mish mash of old and 3rd party.
Because their other Kickstarters felt cheap at the start, and the end quality, or lack of, was played out in the comments section by people looking at the final product in front of them. Having looked at stuff in person, I was not impressed.
It also says something that they have no new components at launch. It means there will be a scramble to get them done for order fulfillment. The last thing I want from my hobby products is for them to be rushed.
So you’re basing your assessment of this on their previous products rather than on anything this particular product has or has not done. Pretty sure that’s called prejudice. As for reading the comments, never read the comments (he said, in the comments). The comments are not in any way an accurate reflection of the game and it’s quality. They’re mostly an outlet for dissatisfied customers to vent their frustrations. I backed Dungeon Saga and was actually very happy with what I received with the possible exception of the resin “legendary” variants of the heroes which had some serious casting issues.… Read more »
So if a car maker produces cars that constantly blow up, is not purchasing one prejudice or just good sense.
As far as no new products. If Mantic is so financially unstable that they can’t even generate a prototype without Kickstarter funds, thus leaving early backers praying what they actually get is halfway decent, Then that should tell you something about Mantic’s Kickstarter business model.
Mantic Kickstarters are not cars that constantly blow up. The overwhelming majority of Mantic’s Kickstarter backers have, in all likelihood, received their pledges without issue and gone on to enjoy the products they bought. It’s a small, but very vocal, minority who are dissatisfied and are making a lot of noise. For example It’s mostly the same people here on Beasts of War making the exact same comments and points on every single article about Mantic (the same goes for Games Workshop). It’s probably about 5 or 6 people with very similar views driving the majority of comments against Mantic.
I’ll pass on this one.
Meh
I wonder if this one will come with proof reading unlike Dungeon Saga. Maybe it could be a Stretch Goal…
Good One. Thumbs up.
Well after all the happy, cheery , observations above., let me just say I am looking forward to this. I didn’t stay up until 11:00pm last night for this to launch and instead got on it at 6:00am when it was already 1.5 x funded, missed out on the low price, but with two stretch goals added already I am sure I will do okay out of it. I hope you all have a happy day.
Now you can return to your pissing contrest about who hates Mantic more. cheerio
Has a point, that could be an entertaining idea for a contest.
I don’t dislike Mantic, just their Kickstarter business model and most of their products. I am sure the staff are really nice people.
I agree. The name itself is fine. And unlike some of their rulebooks, it’s even spelled correctly.
You spend a lot of time moaning about Mantic’s use of Kickstarters so why not tell us all how it should be done. How can Mantic produce the range of models that they have by alternative means? I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts and I’m absolutely certain that Ronnie would be too.
The simple answer is they can’t. Warpath vs. 40k – 40k wins Kings of War vs. Warhammer Fantasy Battles – Warhammer wins Dreadball vs. Classic Bloodbowl or Guild Ball – Bloodbowl/Guild Ball wins Sci-Fi Skirmish Deadzone vs. Sci-Fi skirmish Infinity – Infinity wins Project Pandora vs. Space Hulk – Space Hulk wins And on and on. Mantic could not stand up to these companies in open retail warfare. They need the promise of cheap Kickstarter extras made by the lowest Chinese bidder to be viable. That’s why I have never seen their stuff in any stores across the country. Never… Read more »
So if they can’t do something, or at least in your opinion they can’t, perhaps people should stop suggesting Mantic should do that. However as I have said, I can get Mantic products off the shelf in my local game store. In fact last Friday I went down because I fancied getting a new faction for Deadzone (bored of playing Enforcers vs Forge Fathers) and I left with a Rebs faction starter. Also on sale was a selection of Kings of War products (basileans, elves amobg others) as well as a decent stock of Dreadball. I think your assessment of… Read more »
They can produce the range of miniatures via organic growth rather than trying to force growth through new games and second editions via KS.
When was the last time they released new units for KoW outside of KS? What about Dreadball? Warpath? Deadzone?
They could do these things organically like any other company if they made sure their games were up to scratch and weren’t constantly concentrating on making the next new shiny game / editions for KS.
As has been explained before ; even if Mantic could afford to self fund all of these products it is very much in their interests to kickstart them instead. In terms of growth I think they have managed Dreadball and Kings of War very well and both of these games are very well supported and have fairly lively communities. They haven’t quite cracked the sci-fi market yet, outside of Dreadball, but that’s an eminently more competitive environment. Deadzone is an incredibly fun game but it’s up against some serious competition. The last Kings of War release outside of a Kickstarter… Read more »
Awwww beardragon14, sorry to have hurt your feelings.
Glad you like it. No need to get bitchy, just because others dont 🙂
Same could be argued about the majority of comments slagging Mantic off really. You don’t like it but there’s no need to get bitchy. And a lot of the nagativity is quite bitchy
I can’t help but to think Space Hulk when I saw that. Sure it does look interesting but it’s just another Mantic KS project instead of them focusing on games that they already have and bringing those to LGSs from were more people could learn about those and pick those up while possibly having demo game option.
I don’t know which LGS you’re going to but I can get the following off the shelf in mine:
Dungeon Saga
Dreadball (plus supporting miniatures line)
Deadzone (plus supporting miniatures line)
Kings of War (plus supporting miniatures line)
And ifvan LGS doesn’t stock a game, how do Mantic change that?
They change it by providing an incentive to stock their products. I.e. allowing pre-orders via retailers if pre-orders are required or simply by organically growing their games by releasing one or two complimentary products (i.e. new units for exisitng games) instead of continually making new games and selling them via KS.
If your FLGS is invested in Mantic games, good for them. Most are not. That yours does is the outlier, the abberation. Just ’cause a *the few* carry Mantic products, they do not outweigh *the many* that don’t.
Blaster was here…
Maybe the issue lies with your LGS though, not with Mantic. Most LGSs have limited shelf space and they devote that space to things that sell in large quantities, such as X-Wing and 40k. If your LGS isn’t stocking Mantic I think really you need to take that up with them. Some LGSs do stock Mantic products so maybe yours would too if you asked. Or they might be able to order stuff in for you. Sadly Gaming isn’t yet so popular that a store can (or will) stock every game system going.
Yes, F:GS have limited space. hat’s why they don’t waste it on Mantic products. Mantic wants to be *one of the big biys* bu their reach exceeds their grasp so far. I was really hopeful about Mantic when DZ hit KS. It was impressive. I didn’t expect top quality minis &/or components. I did expect a ruleset that didn’ need *2.0-ing* right from the start. & since then, their quality control of minis, rules & general direction of the company has been all over the place. Bottomline; Why would a FLGS carry a product from a company that makes 90%… Read more »
Yes, Mantic does want to be “one of the big boys” and no, they’re not there yet. Mantic are fairly candid about that and that’s why they use Kickstarter.
As for whether they make 90% of sales through Kickstarter I’d like to the evidence you’re basing that on seeing as Mantic don’t publsh their sales figures. In a recent statement Ronnie said that Dreadball sold 3 times as much at retail as it did via Kickstarter. So I would suggest that their collectable miniatures games at least are outselling their Kickstarters.
The title logo looks like a no effort placeholder. The tiles are flat and diagrammatic rather than atmospheric and mood-setting. The box graphic looks very plain and not something you’d see on a game box so much as a ‘shoved out the door’ 2004-ish D20 book from a very small publisher with a Microsoft Publisher Template and some starving-artist-sale license free placeholder art. Storyline is fine: an ad-hoc group of cold blooded, money-hungry bounty hunter anti-hero space mercs(TM) who look a little bit like GWAR bust into a corporate lab that happens to be studying the rapidly expanding gratuitous body-horror… Read more »
I won’t be going anywhere near this or Mantic in general following my Dungeon Saga experience.. When I first saw Ronnie on Bow I was impressed with his energy and passion for gaming which is why I backed Dungeon Saga.. It turned out, in my humble opinion and I’m sure he is actually a personable chap, he had more in common with a Carpet Bagger.
Mantic – adj
1. of or relating to divination and prophecy
2. having divining or prophetic powers
So at least they know yet another Kickstarter delivery is going to suck beforehand.
I believe that Mantics “fall from grace” in many gamers eyes is more due to artificially inflated high expectations on the Hype Train than anything else. Look at their output: They have from the very first KS start had consistently had problems with quality control. In some respects they have made great product, but at the same time dropped the ball on important aspects of the same products leaving the total impression sub par. Even though Kings of War is a great rule set / game, the minis are for the most part (earliest renedra-made plastics exepted) cheap and not… Read more »
Mantic have never made any pretence that they make high end miniatures. Their philosophy has always been quantity not quality and their goal was big armies on the table affordably. I think that they achieve this very well. There has never been hint in any of their Kickstarters that the miniatures for that particular product would in any way break from their tradition of producing average miniatures whilst keeping the cost low. Dreadball also gets a fair amount of retail support. I would potentially argue that Deadzone also receives a fair amount of support. At this precise moment in time,… Read more »
Literally the first line of their “about us” page on their website:
“Mantic Games is all about providing the best fantasy and sci-fi miniatures and games at great value.”
That is a pretence of high end miniatures if ever I heard one. Although I suppose its a better tag line than “We make crap, but at least its cheap”.
No, that’s the pretence of the best miniatures games, not necessarily the best miniatures. That statement doesn’t necessarily imply that they even make miniatures.
“We produce the best model soldiers in the world” is a statement that they make high end miniatures.
Plus there is an “and” between the words miniatures and games. That sentence says that both are the best.
Sorry I misread that. It does say that they produce miniatures but it still doesn’t imply that they are high end miniatures.
It could be argued that Mantic are better than other manufacturers because you can field more models for less money thus when combined with the games they are for they are a better product (i.e. miniature wargame) than that of their rivals.
When you use the word “best” it tends to imply quality. And if that’s what Mantic is all about. And that’s the best they can do. Well…………
It implies that their miniatures are “the best” or at least that is their goal.
Your idea of “best” may indeed be very different to mine however.
Guys can we tone it down a touch now, it’s starting to get a bit pedantic and circular (not adding a whole lot of value to the discussion at this stage) 🙂
I think “best” depends on how you want to view it and is entirely subjective. One could argue Ford aren’t as good as Ferrari but they’re arguably more successful because they sell a product people can better afford. So who is “best” the more affordable Ford or the high quality Ford. In Mantic’s case they’re producing games and supporting miniatures at a more affordable price which for many people, especially those who literally just want to get a big army on the table for a game, makes Mantic the best option. So for someone who is so inclined Mantic do… Read more »
Well I wouldn’t describe myself as a Fanboi (I too have had my problems receiving my pledge from Mantic that took almost another year to sort out). But I would say Mantic Minis have improved greatly over the last few years (from Mantics early Dreadball, KoW and Warpath Minis). The detailing has got a lot better and the minis for Dreadzone Infestation had a lot of sharp detail (particularly on the new Steel Warriors minis). Some aren’t quite as good (Vermin Hard Plastic minis), but strangely the PVC restic minis look a lot better than the hard plastic offerings. Mantic… Read more »
I am sure if this were a CMON Kickstarter, it would receive similar scorn. Alas it is not. Also CMON have never promised store support, nor do they really produce products which require ongoing, post-KS support. I agree that Mantic’s minis are getting better. Their new Steel Warriors actually have me interested in making a small Squat force for 40k. I just wish they would release an army’s worth of minis before moving on to the next shiny project. The most annoying thing about Mantic’s minis is the Undead range. They are IMO fantastic and were it not for them,… Read more »
Out of interest at what point is any given company, in your opinion, no longer allowed to use Kickstarter?
I have no problem with any company using Kickstarter to fund its projects but where it is an established company, there is the expectation that they will put out a good quality product.
Whether a product is “good” is somewhat subjective. I’ve been more than happy with most of what I have received from backing Mantic Kickstarters. The games are fun, which is why I backed them, and the miniatures are passable (which is pretty much what I expected and the quality matches the price I paid). Their management wasn’t entirely without issue (the Dungeon Saga Adventurers Companion, which in their defence they did their best to resolve charging only a few dollars for shipping) but they do maintain regular communication. By the time I got my pledges there were no unexpected surprises… Read more »
I agree it is subjective. They charged additional shipping costs to resolve a problem with a product which should have been shipped right in the first place. The miniatures were only “passable”. The shipping delays were inexcusable from a company with this much experience of Kickstarter. The rules were so bad that they required a re-write (called Star Saga) barely 12 months after pledges were delivered. This is not a “good” experience in my opinion. Obviously you were happy with it and that is great.
Shipping delays happen to everyone. Conan is 12 months overdue. It happens. The rules are fine, there’s nothing wrong with them and if they wanted to rewrite them or do a version 2.0 we’d be talking about Dungeon Saga 2nd Edition rather than Star Saga 1st Edition. It’s a sci-fi game based on an updated rules set. That doesn’t mean Dungeon Saga was crap (it wasn’t) it just means it’s been improved. Infinity N3 was an improved rules set but ut didn’t mean N2 was crap. The only bit of Dungeon Saga that I think needs any real attention is… Read more »
Conan is late not because they have shipping delays but because of delays with design and manufacturing. It’s not like there have been thousands of copies of the Conan boardgame sitting on a warf somewhere waiting for someone to deliver them. Mantic had shipping delays in that it took them up to ten months past the date when they started actually shipping out the final product to finally fulfil some backers pledges. As for Dungeon Saga, Mantic admit on their blog that the rules fell short of the mark. They have even stated their intention to take the rules from… Read more »
Conan is late and they haven’t even started shipping yet. I have no reason to expect Monolith will not encounter the same issues that Mantic did with Dungeon Saga. Nor those experienced by Post Industrial Games and Human Interface. Every single Kickstarter I have backed has taken longer to ship than anticipated and some backers received incorrect deliveries or in some cases no deliveries. If people are thinking that Monolith are somehow going to get a perfect score on deliveries some people are going to be disappointed. Conan will be an interesting comparison because generally the issues with pledges being… Read more »
*I have no specific information on what the actual success rate for pledge delivery is for Mantic or any other company. A 10% failure rate is an arbitrary number used to solely as an example. I have assumed that Mantic are no worse than any other company in terms of actually getting pledges delivered because there is no data to support any claim that they are better or worse than the average across all kickstarters. The numbers of people complaining on Facebook or on Beasts of War is not an actual indicator of performance.
Oh, and by the way, you appear to have missed the announcement about Rising Sun heading to Kickstarter next year. I’ll post a link so you can head on over and post some “similar scorn” on that product as well.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/rising-sun/eric-lang-adrian-smith-team-up-board-game/
I think you missed the point when I said “I am sure if THIS were a CMON Kickstarter..”, I didn’t mean any other game, I meant if Star Saga as shown here was instead a CMON product, it would receive scorn.
You said if it was a CMON Kickstarter you would be equally scornful and yet you were notably absent from the comments on CMON’s recent announcement that they will be going to Kickstarter with another game. So is it Kickstarters you’re objecting to (in which case why are CMON Kickstarter announcements not treated to a dose of bile) or is it Star Saga itself (in which case say so rather than constantly criticising Kickstarters)?
As I have stated a number of times, it is Mantic’s Kickstarter-led business model and lack of ongoing non-Kickstarter support I object to. I am not sure why that is such a problem. By all means tell me why you think Mantic are great but I am entitled to my own opinion.
Please re-read my initial post. I never said “if IT was a CMON Kickstarter” I said “if THIS were a CMON Kickstarter” (emphasis added for clarity).
So is it Star Saga itself that you take issue with or is it Kickstarters in general? Your previous comments on the previous Star Saga article would seem to suggest that it’s Kickstarters and Mantic in general (“I don’t dislike Mantic, just their Kickstarter business model and most of their products”) and if it’s the case that you dislike Mantic in general then perhaps you should consider posting less on Mantic articles. It’s fine to dislike them, it’s even fine to post on the article comments saying that you don’t like them but both articles about Star Saga have been… Read more »
Please stop asking the same questions over and over in an attempt to catch someone out. All it causes is for me to re-iterate the same negative feelings about this article. This is just going in circles. Maybe I should just stop answering you but it is difficult not to answer a direct question. As I said above, I don’t dislike Mantic. I think they have done some great work. As I said previously, I love their Undead and Forgefathers. I have backed their Kickstarters in the past and have had a mixture of outcomes. Some have been as expected,… Read more »
It’s not so much that I’m upset I just think if people don’t like something they should probably go post someplace else. For those of us who do like something having to wade through hundreds of comments slagging off either the game or its makers is at best irritating and at worst stifling any discussion about it. I’m not saying don’t have an opinion and I’m not even saying don’t post it. But does it need to be wheeled out on every article? This is the second article about Star Saga (of two articles, so a 100% record) that’s been… Read more »
Although I agree with what onlyonepinman has said in many cases, I think stating that people consider “do the comments on this article make them a) want to stay or b) want to back Mantic’s Kickstarter?” and alluding to the fact that if they don’t people shouldn’t post them is wrong, in your own argument you state that if people are new to the site this may put them off, but surely if the persons argument isn’t flawed then they should see the negative as well as the positive, otherwise what is the point in any one commenting. Now don’t… Read more »
I’m not suggesting that people shouldn’t post negative opinions, people have a right to hold and express an opinion and I’m fine with that. What I find slightly disappointing is when the negative opinions, usually only voiced by a small number of people, become the dominant discussion. It makes it virtually impossible to get a discussion going about the actual product (which in turn generates excitement and anticipation and I think we can all agree that we do enjoy a bit of anticipation) as the majority of the discussion is taken up with people trying to counter the negative opinions.… Read more »
Asking people to explain their opinions over and over, trying to catch them out on something they’ve said, or telling them that either their opinions are wrong or not to post them at all isn’t the way to go about countering a negative opinion. So far, in defence of Mantic’s good name you have told me that I shouldn’t post negative comments at all, I should go post negative things on other companies’ (CMON) articles, that my opinions on the quality of the DS rules are wrong, that if I’m buying Mantic’s Miniature games for the miniatures I’m doing something… Read more »
The little tête-a-ťête with you (which I’m not overly interested in continuing) is a very small part of a much wider discussion in which I have said the things I like about Mantic and even some of the things I find frustrating or disappointing; maybe you can find them. I also haven’t said don’t post, only that if you don’t like something maybe you should limit what you post rather than railroading the discussion, as you have done twice. By all means express your opinion but maybe leave it that. Allow people a right of reply, you don’t need to… Read more »
Also, I think you’ve exemplified what I said. “If it weren’t for all the aggro about my first post on this topic, where I gave my initial thoughts on the product, I probably wouldn’t have needed to post any more about it.” That’s my point, you didn’t need to post any more – aggro or not. Ths fact that there was aggro should perhaps alert you to the fact that you may need to work on wirding your posts better so that you get your point across without causing any aggro but beyond that you made your point and people… Read more »
I continued to post as part of the “aggro” I received was direct questions about why I have those opinions and choose to post them. I simply answered them and was then insulted by you for my opinions. If you don’t ask these questions, you won’t receive the answers you don’t want to hear. I would suggest that in future, if you see a comment you don’t like, rather than insulting the person, you simply let it go. It is something I have been guilty of in the past so I know it is only too easy to leap to… Read more »
It’s not the discussion I wanted but it’s certainly one I’m prepared to have; whenever there’s people hating on companies and products I personally like and wish to see succeed then I will post in response to that. I’d rather do that and make sure that a counter opinion to all the negativity is visible. I don’t pretend to understand why people feel the need to constantly post about stuff that they don’t like, I mean there must be more constructive/productive/enjoyable ways to spend your time but whatever floats your boat I guess.
To be fair to Onlyonepinman, I do see what he means about unnecessary negativity. Mantic now seems to suffer from the same kind of hatred that we see getting thrown at GW. I remember seeing similar on the Walking Dead KS article. Funny enough some of the people who complained about negative comments made about GW and claimed it really upset them and spoiled their hobby are quite happy to come onto Mantic threads and do exactly the same thing to Mantic fans, which I personally find tad hypocritical. And I think the reason for their Mantic resentment is because… Read more »
ps I backed Star Saga BTW……
Cool Mini Or Not help facilitate Kickstarters for game producers they work with. It gets their name on the box but the product is not necessarily created by them. That is why Coolmini Kickstarters have had differences in final quality because the end fulfillment is not solely handled by them. However, they get their share of hate too. Just look at the fiasco that was the Relic Knights Kickstarter.
That’s not entirely true. CMON have a much bigger hand in their KS campaigns than that. They make all of the production and distribution decisions and have a say in the design work (which is ultimately what the partner studio is doing). In the case of the aforementioned Relic Knights, they decided to switch the material of the minis from metal & resin to soft plastic. They also were responsible for the large number of stretch goals which set that campaign’s fulfillment back so much. When Soda Pop ran out of design work, CMON told them to produce more so… Read more »
I don’t disagree. I was merely trying to illustrate the point that while CMON work with other companies on Kickstarters, Mantic run their own completely in house. They don’t have other companies design games for them, and they don’t share a product with anyone. A Mantic game is completely a Mantic game. I also used the Relic Knights cluster **** to illustrate that Mantic is not the only company to generate negative comments concerning a Kickstarter. Prodos did not escape my eye either.
I’m not generally a fan of many of Mantic’s models, but I thought the renders of the stuff shown here, were a cut above what is generally released.
Also, as a sidenote, have Mantic benched / squated the Corporation faction? I thought that range was pretty good (reminded me of 1st edition Imperial Guard), but looking at the Mantic website, I can’t seem to find them anymore.
They did some new plastic corporate troopers in the last Warpath kickstarter, which has not delivered yet. They look rather different from the old tall skinny restic ones with the blocky visors and funny right arms.
http://i.imgur.com/P3dYCch.jpg
The Warpath kickstarter has not delivered yet so they’ll probably do a new Warpath section of their site when it does and the stuff is in retail.
I’m kind of looking forward to the Warpath corporation release. I like the look of the little buggies they’re getting
Now that’s kindled a flame.
I wont be backing this one as I still have lots of Deadzone and Dungeon Saga stuff to paint. While many people seem to have had issues, my Kickstarters from Mantic always lived up to what I was expecting.
I love Dungeon Saga and I think this might be fun too, but a little too similar for me and my mates… we’d never know which one to play.
But who knows come retail I might have cleared the backlog and want something new to work on.
In Ronnie’s hype vid for the DZ Infestation KS, he talked about some kinda spec ops type, *merc mode*, if DZ;I went big. It didn’t of course. & here they are, a *merc mode* boardgame that’s not compatible with DZ nor WP/FF. I wonder why? Oh yeah, money grab. It’s really jarring that Mantic seems to be chasing the money from one KS to the next. & that, instead of concentrating on finishing their outlying products, they go a new direction, with an all new game. A game that, if you piece together past comments from them, that is just… Read more »
What do you mean by “finishing” their outlying products? Is there something missing from some of their products? At what point would you class something like Kings of War as finished? Whether a company uses Kickstarter or not, the next products should always be in development before the current one has been delivered. Marauders and Corporation are also about to be delivered for Warpath and are already available for Deadzone (well, corporation are available as the Enforcers, there’s no plans for standard GCPS in Deadzone as far asI’m aware). Rebs are available for Deadzone, not sure if they are part… Read more »
I’m talking about fulfilling their KS. & that they went thos long for Marauders & Rebs, 2 highly popular & original factions, while producing two new factions [Veer-myn & Pathfinders {who are a sub-faction, but if you wanna get pedantic…} is very bad form.] Of their 13 created KS, 3 are still undelivered. & they still move onto the next?
But, since its quite obvious anything even near not being a Mantic fanboy is gonna be met with derision, if not outright anger… Good for you Mantic-boys!
Blaster was here…
Rebs and Marauders have been available for Deadzone for ages, only Plague seem to have been delayed. And yes, they should absolutely be looking at their next kickstarter even while they have 3 undelivered ones. Simple project planning really, you don’t wait for a product to complete it’s production run before you start working on your next product; this is irrespective of whether you fund out of your own pocket or via kickstarter. In terms of work, as a business owner, you need to make sure you have work for all of your different teams for as much of the… Read more »
Old Rebs & Old Marauders. Not the new iterations that will be suitable for building the larger Firefight armiies & large Warpath armies. They’ve even said that Marauders & Rebs, as pertain to WP/FF are TBD, TBA, &/or on indefinite hold. But nice try. & yes, I get the *forging ahead* on another project through KS thing. It;s good business to keep moving. What you don’t get [or are intentionally ignoring] is the prob of having 3 KS in the process of being fulfilled, another in need of huge corrections, while embarking on yet another project is very poor form,… Read more »
Rebs and Marauders weren’t funded during the Warpath Kickstarter. Rebs would, I think, be quite difficult to represent as a large army (they work well in Deadzone, less so in Warpath). Marauders need to be slowly phased out of their sci-fi IMO if Mantic want to be seen to be doing their own thing rather than copying GW. I would say the same goes for Veermyn and possibly, to a lesser degree, Forge Fathers
Eh, I wouldn’t think GW’s half-baked ‘boardgames’ are really applying much pressure anywhere. Those kinds of things are really only going to sell to existing GW customers who see spending $150 on 20 miniatures as a bargain because if you bought them separately it would be closer to $300. Anyone who has already fallen off the GW bandwagon isn’t going to shell out GW prices for more GW plastic, nor is anyone else who isn’t already a customer. That’s where these other companies are finding their markets, and I don’t think they are at any risk of seeing those markets… Read more »
I think GWs new games are mostly selling to existing fans. They may have brought a few old players back in on a nostalgia trip (Genestealer.Cults, plastic Horus Heresy, warhammer quest maybe) but by and large I reckon it’s mostly existing fans buying them
I don’t think there’s any question that these recent GW games, with the possible exception of Silver Tower, are both intended as and bought as miniature bundles, with the game an optional extra that hardly anyone plays.
I’d probably go so far as to say Deathwatch Overkill was designed as both a game and a miniatures bundle. Possibly as a tester to see what the reception was like for both Deathwatch Marines and Genestealer Cults with a view to producing them as factions. You could almost say Deathwatch Overkill was a form of market research. I think Betrayal at Calth might have been a similar exercise because the game itself actually plays quite well and seems to have a decent level of thought behind it. Renegade and Death from the Skies you’ll get mor argument from about… Read more »
I wasn’t even thinking about those ones. I was more thinking the Betrayal at Calth and Deathwatch. They don’t seem to get played much and when people talk about buying them, it always seems to be because they represent a big discount over buying the minis individually.
I think sales of Deathwatch probably went up when they announced the Deathwatch and cult codices. But it does stand on its own as a game and I think it probably had to in the (admittedly highly unlikely) event that there wasn’t the predicted interest in Genestealer Cult models. As it turns out I think both have been popular (Cult especially so) and so now it very much represents a bargain miniatures bundle and it may well be that it was designed like that deliberately.
Well, I know my group of 10+ was mostly out of GW games. But now, with the boxed games coming back, we’re drifting back in, by 2s & 3s. & once the games we’ve known & loved, Space Hulk, Necromunda &/or Blood Bowl ar fully supported again, even moreso. & the boxed games aren’t only about the gameplay. The value [relative to GW pricing, no doubt] is incredible. Why else would Cryptozoic bring The Walking Dead; No Sanctuary to KS with no pre-existing fanfare, no hype, absolutely no advertising? Why would they be in such a rush? & now SDtar… Read more »
If I really had to speculate as to why Star Saga has come “out of nowhere” (and I don’t believe for one second that it has) I would say it was more likely to have been in response to hints that Corvus Belli were also planning a sci-fi crawler. However I think it has been Ronnie’s vision for a long time to have as many different games in each of his worlds as he can and I think Star Saga has been planned for several years now.
I don’t think you realise how big the boardgames market is, and how many people don’t actually know or care about GW and their properties.
Boardgames yes, miniatures boardgames, No. For people specifically interested in miniatures boardgames (which is a fairly popular sub-genre of boardgames at the moment), I’d say most people interested in them know who GW are.
third ks from mantic that I have backed. took awhile for my kow to arrive but it got here and when i emailed mantic on what was missing they sent me that. now with this one I hope they make some firefly minis
I think GWs new games are mostly selling to existing fans. They may have brought a few old players back in on a nostalgia trip (Genestealer.Cults, plastic Horus Heresy, warhammer quest maybe) but by and large I reckon it’s mostly existing fans buying them.
This appears to have been added to the wrong comment.