Massive Awesome’s Shattered Earth Live On Kickstarter
February 11, 2016 by brennon
Massive Awesome have now launched their Kickstarter for Shattered Earth and it's going great guns! At time of writing they are already half way towards their funding total and there's plenty to check out...
So where does the campaign stand right now? Well lets have a look at some of the aspects of their campaign and how it is coming together...
Pledge Levels
First up we'll look at some of the pledge levels you can aim for. There are a couple of Faction Sets which allow you to snap up the first miniatures to get you started within the world of Shattered Earth. Here we have the UNM...
But they have also sorted out Starter Boxes for both the Cult and the Deathless as well as you can see below. I don't know which one I'd plump for as they all look rather awesome but if pushed to it I reckon I'd have to go for the Cult for something a bit different.
If you fancy getting more people into the game then they are also providing some two player bundles which pack both the Cult and the UNM together into one set allowing you to duke it out with a friend.
Additionally you can pledge that little bit more and also get some of the factions with their additional content like Vampyrs, a Kodiak Tactical Frame and a Biomancer for the various factions. If you want to find out more about those head on over to the Kickstarter page.
Gameplay & Rules
We had a chat with the Shattered Earth guys about the game not long ago on The Weekender but in the mean time they have also given a quick run down of the rules on their funding page AND you can download all of the relevant rules to give them a go.
The game seems streamlined and simple to learn with a real focus on all of the working out happening around the tabletop rather than back in the book consulting charts.
Stretch Goals
Looking ahead they also have plenty of stretch goals planned out. The first ones are new factions which is great to see!
It's great to see that the factions are going to be the focus of these first stretch goals as, if they hit their target and more, they could be adding a lot more depth to the world of Shattered Earth already.
You can find out LOADS about the background of this world too over on their Kickstarter page. They have really gone to town on it!
Will you be backing?
"Looking ahead they also have plenty of stretch goals planned out. The first ones are new factions which is great to see!"
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Way to pricey
For high quality resin the price is fine, but I wonder whether they wouldn’t have been better served promoting a higher buy-in for more minis (and by extension more variety of minis) as the standard pledge. The likes of Mierce and Infamy have done well with similarly pricey resin minis using this approach. It hasn’t stopped me pledging, albeit only for a £1 for now so I can get access later when I’m better able to afford it.
Yep, perhaps that is a good idea. I’d certainly be all over that.
They’ve reduced all the prices across the board. The initial buy in is now much more in line with something like Infinity, or at least fairly close. All of their miniatures are prices fairly similarly to something like Batman (metal) or the new Marvel miniature starters (metal). The level of maturity of the game system and miniatures (for example, the way female characters are designed) and the interesting background, which shows a lot of potential – all this adds up to something worth backing. Compared to a Mantic or a CMON Kickstarter, it’s expensive. But the quality of miniatures is… Read more »
Everything can be bought as addons. So, despite there being only one ‘all-in’ package, you can pretty much get any combination of miniatures that you like, all at discount on retail.
Sure but that’s not the same as having a standard pledge in which you spend £80 or £100 and get a good discount on a lot of minis. Past experience of other campaigns suggests that people will happily jump in on those and feel like they’re good value. In Mierce’s case those all tend to be from one faction, and Infamy’s it was a selection from the range. SE’s format seems more towards Mierce and I guess that each faction isn’t yet far enough along to make that pledge level something they can offer.
Yep, I get you.
Just like Age of Tyrants and its roaring kickstarter trade.
Great looking miniatures. Can’t comment on quality as not seen one in the flesh. Very bloody expensive (on a per-miniature basis) though, even after they’ve dropped the prices. Compared to other small-force skirmish games they’re not too far away (e.g. Infinity, Malifaux – 6 minis for about £30, Guild Ball – 4 minis for about £22) but still definitely more expensive and once at full retail price will be very pricey. No idea on how many miniatures you need for a game (i.e. whether you just need a starter set or whether you need say 10 men for a “full”… Read more »
All of Infinity’s starter sets are the same price, granted. But they have enough miniatures to field full armies with just 28mm figures. If they priced all the SE starter sets the same, then they would have to just use the smaller miniatures (or make potentially make a loss on the sets with larger figures). A full-size game up to about 15 miniatures per side, the bulk of them will be standard-sized, I would imagine. It’s early days for SE, they are Kickstarting in order to get moving. It’s definitely on the higher-quality, more expensive side of the market. But… Read more »
Malifaux has starter sets that contain large models. They are all very similar prices (between £30 and £34). Where you see a loss on the larger minis, I see higher profits on the ones which contain only smaller minis. Alternatively, they could put an extra mini in the ones with only small miniatures in them. Maybe they don’t feel they need to and that people will buy the minis they want anyway, regardless of price. I don’t know. All I know is that a lot of players I know would plump for the cheaper set (and would certainly balk at… Read more »
The Malifaux starters are now all plastic as far as I’m aware, which makes the cost there related to the number of sprues rather than the number and size of the minis. There’ll be a huge up-front cost to tool the sprues, but Wyrd obviously sell enough of them to make it cost effective with the minimal manufacturing costs. Hand-poured resin is a different beast, and the costs are different.
Hand-poured resin isn’t that expensive to produce. If that is the case, how is it Anvil Industry can manage to produce starter sets for £39 that contain 14 miniatures (3 of which are larger than a standard infantry miniature), dice, counters and even a box to store them all in? They have some of the highest casting quality I have seen in resin miniatures.
Also, I don’t get how its ok to slag off GW’s prices (not meaning you necessarily @redben but generally among the community), yet as soon as some small company makes overpriced miniatures, you get a negative rating for even mentioning it.
I can’t speak to Anvil as I’m not familiar with their product. I am familiar in general with the economics of producing miniatures by this method and the prices of SE are in line with that. I don’t complain about GW minis being overpriced (and realise you’re not saying that I do 🙂 )though the conversation is slightly different in their regard as they’re pretty unique economically in the industry.
I appreciate you don’t believe it to be that expensive and would be interested to know how much it does cost as I don’t know enough @lunchbox oh and which company your price comes from? I may need someone who produces cheap models after all with art, render, master, mould, production, etc… It must add up.
The “Economics” of resin miniature production are fairly simple. Materials and mould costs are extremely low compared to sprued styrene and metal (approximately 10-20p per 28mm miniature). Time investment per casting is extremely high (must be poured by hand and manually placed in vacuum / pressure / centrifuge machines, then manually demoulded). This actually means that the larger miniatures should cost only a small amount more than the smaller ones as time invesment will be similar and only the materials cost changes, which even if it costs 10x as much in materials is still only £1-2, which added to the… Read more »
@noyjatat
I was referring to Anvil Industry’s pricing in my previous post.
http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/AFTERLIFE/FACTION-STARTER-SET
Cheers for the link buddy. I see what you mean.
Only problem is they are just reposed not new sculpts. A digital repose costs less than a third of a new sculpt. They are nice quality though and something I haven’t seen before so cheers again for the link.
Cheers for the info again. What company was that with because the two I have had quotes from ranged from 50p to a £1 per 32mm model. So if I could use the company you got your figures from that would save me a lot of money over the range?
I am talking about the cost to the actual company producing the casts, not the cost of outsourcing to another company. Obviously once you start outsourcing casting, costs go up as two companies need to see a profit.
That’s cool so the pricing you mentioned above which would effect the required stretch goals to be set for a KS start up didn’t take this into account? If not and the fact that each is not a repose but an original sculpt would surely change your original concerns of the price per unit slightly.
I’m not sure which price that I have mentioned would be affected by stretch goals.
SE starter boxes don’t come with any stretch goals. Nor do the packs available as addons (which the individual infantry are £7+ each).
If you mean the cost of resin production, its cost per mini in materials to produce and it would obviously be up to the company making / selling them to account for stretch goals.
Apologies I wasn’t very clear with that one.
I guess what I am asking is with your original concerns at each SE models cost, be it as apart of a deal or as an add on. Does the cost seem high to you even with having to outsource various elements and not just re posing models but producing an individual sculpt for the models as well as everything else involved in producing a miniature from scratch?
In one respect it is fair to compare SE to those games as it’s competing for gaming budgets with them, at least so some degree. In another respect it isn’t because the miniatures aren’t the same, and the costs aren’t the same. SE minis are best compared to the likes of Forge World, Kingdom Death, Infamy, and Mierce Miniatures, and against those the prices stand up. Personally, when it comes to this type of mini, I prefer not to have generic troopers. I prefer to have a smaller number of minis and each stand out as it’s own thing. It’s… Read more »
I hear you. To be fair the only miniatures I’d say were generic are the Deathless Drekavacs – every other basic trooper miniature is unique. And you get 4 of those in the set, rather than the 3 of the other starters. And the Drekavacs are necessarily generic, it’s part of their character. Very difficult to get the balance right. I think that they’ll do everything necessary to keep folk happy and bring them along, whilst not hobbling the whole project like we’ve seen in the past. Ultimately, the game has to be sustainable – so enough folk jump on,… Read more »
The basic troopers are about as non generic as Forgeworld DKoK. They cost £4 a miniature as opposed to £7-8.
Again an interesting comparison. I had a look at the anew products on Forgeworld to see what a new model from them is going for and the only complete ones of a similar scale are £38 for 5. The other require you to buys various things such as legs or guns. These all being new products this would put SE on par.
You’re right if you look at anything other than generic guardsmen.
e.g.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Solar-Auxilia-Veletaris-Storm-Section
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Death-Korps-of-Krieg-Grenadier-Squad
Which compared to the generic infantrymen of SE are about half the price per mini.
Agreed, anything that resembles a space marine is similarly priced to SE, but since when has being “similar” to FW prices been a good thing?
Love those Death Korp models and have always been a huge fan. Not so much a fan or the Solar Auxilia . These again are all reposed though not individual sculpts which does save. In addition as you mentioned above FW will use the GW production facilities and not need to out source and I imagine that will save some pennies here and there. Although based on your comparisons here and your earlier references to other games that are cheaper “the prices. Compared to other small-force skirmish games they’re not too far away (e.g. Infinity, Malifaux – 6 minis for… Read more »
“SE minis are best compared to the likes of Forge World, Kingdom Death, Infamy, and Mierce Miniatures, and against those the prices stand up.” People bitch non stop about FW prices yet as soon as someone else does it, all of a sudden its ok? Also, if you compare the basic trooper minis, FW ones are half the price (per mini vs DKoK). Mierce are nice but way overpriced. Infamy are also beautiful minis and also hideously expensive, but appear to be display pieces for the most part, not starter sets for gaming. Kingdom Death produce injection moulded styrene minis… Read more »
I’m referring to KD’s resin minis. The economics of plastic are different.
They are different until they reach the consumer. If you’re buying miniatures to play a game, it doesn’t really matter what they’re made from as long as you’re happy with them and how much they cost.
It’s while back now but I acknowledge that in an earlier comment. It makes a difference, though, in that the material cost affects the final product and the price. Kingdom Death’s plastics are very good for plastic models, but not as good as their resin models, and they can do them because of the $2 million+ they raised on KS. Without that they can’t do cheaper plastic versions.
This kickstarter looked so good and i was ready to back it but after seeing the price i just cant bring myself to do it.
Is that Arny with a beard in the UNM unit?
Hey guys, I actually posted a blog update about miniature costs a while ago. Probably very relevant to this discussion right now! http://www.massiveawesome.com/massive-awesome/miniature-myth-busting/ We’re going to expand on the whole issue of cost in next week’s Road to Kickstarter article but, for now, I thought I’d clarify some of the figures being suggested with what we know from making Shattered Earth – I’ll use Jormungandr as an example as he’s a comparatively expensive piece. Warning: honesty incoming! Discounting the time John and I have spent developing the character and his backstory, Jormungandr has cost us roughly £2,000 to develop. Every… Read more »
I’m backing this because I can’t pass up some of the models, but the price knocked me off buying much more than a single starter set. Sorry guys.
I’ve been waiting for this kickstarter but with Twisted coming this month I’m going to have to pass. The quality of SE looks top notch. White metal would be more economical though. Hand poured resin is just too expensive. ArenaRex is the same way. I’m super interested but the price has kept me away so far.
Waaay too expensive, even after the discount. I could point to another successful KS (Afterlife: Shards of Liberty) where we got literally more than 3x the number of high quality resin minis for the same price. But they were modeling and producing in-house, that must be the main difference.
Even then, I must say I’ve developed a strong dislike of resin. Sure, you get high details, but the minis are lighter than air and feel sooo fragile. Metal just feels so much better.
Had a look at their KS and to be fair the sculpts are not really on par they are a good average though don’t get me wrong. In addition there seem to be a lot of them reposed rather than individual sculpts which saves a lot of money. Like you mentioned in house too which supports what I was saying in my discussions with lunchbox.
Serious question then guys: if we could produce cheaper, metal miniatures for Shattered Earth would that be something you would be interested in? Because that’s absolutely something we can work on if it’s a real sticking point for potential backers.
My concerns are not with the price of the larger miniatures (they are really high but would assume most forces will only need one of them) but more with the individual trooper minis. Even in a force with all troops, assuming 15 men @ £7.33 a pop (at a “discount, no less), that’s £110 to play the game which is a little steep. Once you replace some of those with the more expensive character minis it gets even more expensive. You’re basically looking at £150 to play. If the game works fine with 5-8 men (maybe it doesn’t, not read… Read more »
I find it kind of ironic that they make several articals about running a KickStarter but fail to investigate the most important aspect, pricing 🙂
I’m not sure it’s the pricing specifically that we’ve got wrong as there is a market out there for more boutique resin figures demonstrated by the fact that it looks like we’ll fund very soon. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see that the ratio of ‘people who want highest end resin’ to ‘people who are happier with metal at a lower cost’, is not where our research suggested it was. Our options now are to do continue on our original path and produce a resin only range for a smaller audience or look into options for providing what… Read more »
For a boutique miniatures line, the prices are fine. For a line of miniatures to support a game, it isn’t. If your dream is to make a line of the nicest miniatures you possibly can and then add rules to make them into a game, then you’re on the right path. It doesn’t matter whether gamers buy them or not as you’ve got the line of miniatures. If the dream is to make a miniatures game that you want to see masses of people playing and talking about for years to come, the price of the miniatures as gaming pieces… Read more »
Points to consider: Is 10-20% cheaper minis in metal going to cut it? I find that most people who loudly demand cheaper minis are 1.) usually not even satisfied with half price, and 2) when presented with the half priced minis that necessarily are of lower quality, are not satisfied with the quality. Catch 22. I expect the good stuff such as Jørmundgand and that Pans labyrinth-winged thingy (don’t eat the grapes!) would probably still need to be the more expensive resin because of material weight would make the minis too heavy to stand on their own without support/redesign. On… Read more »
Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t want the larger minis in metal. I would guess that from the exact same masters that are being used now, spin cast moulds can be made which will produce metal minis close to the quality of the resin for a cheaper price. Switching to plastic would be an entirely different proposition and probably not something which could be done. The question is will any price reduction gained by switching to metal motivate those complaining about the price to pledge? As I’m already pledged then I can’t answer that. It might mean I pick up a few… Read more »
In my case, the it’s not the price reduction gained by going to metal that would motivate me to pledge, but the fact that I like this material so much better. I love my metal Infinity and Beyond the Gates of Antares more than any resin I own. I’d pledge at the same current prices if it was (well cast) metal!
Cheers, some great points here. We don’t need to appeal to absolutely everyone and would be happy with a customer base big enough to support the continuation of the game for years to come. We aimed to do this in resin, possibly moving to HIPS if we decade big enough but the debacle we’re getting suggests that we’d expand our customer base if we made metal an option alongside resin. While we would only do this if we could keep the quality as high as possible, and while Simon and I both love resin, the main reason we created the… Read more »
^ Debacle=debate
I basically had a reply nearly typed up and John beat me to it! All I will add is that we appreciate your honesty, and we hope you appreciate ours.
Also John, I think you meant to say debate instead of debacle – Freudian slip? 🙂
Also, quick points about the number of troops needed for a battle. I’ve played with four troops vs four and this will last 20 to 40 min depending on scenario. Most of my playtesting has been with 7 or 8 models per side and the game scales up and down nicely. So if you’re happy with a skirmish game and don’t need each battle to last 2+ hours, you absolutely don’t need 15 figures to get started. And on the painting side, I am also not the greatest painter but I do enjoy painting the more detailed models with more… Read more »
@ freylis & jonnyt, gents, far from a debarcle, only £1,500 to go with 23 days left, it feels like a pretty solid start to me. Opinions, feedback and debate are all very valualable, but so far you have demonstrated a very solid and sound approach to bringing your “baby” to market, my caution would be not to be tempted to any on the fly deviation from the plan. The challenge is of course that your both emotionally invested in this very deeply, and you are trying to bring out an “awesome” game first time at bat, very difficult to… Read more »
You’ve pretty much summed up my current state of mind far more eloquently than I could do myself… Cheers.
I haven’t pledged yet. I wasn’t particularly interested in the concepts I’d glanced at in your articles until seeing them on the Weekender, at which point I switched to thinking ‘I’m almost certainly going to pledge’. I haven’t had time to check your KS page yet, or read what the pledges contain, so it’s possible I may be put off by price. With Kickstarters and new games or miniatures lines I tend to want to go all or nothing. I’m generally willing to pay quite a lot of money for the whole lot – if I really like what the… Read more »
Fantastic post, cheers. As you’ve pointed out, we agree that introducing metal during the campaign would be a distraction to a campaign that we’ve done a lot of planning for so we are not going to do it.
Concentrating on the backers who want resin and delivering them a great product will stay our only priority during the campaign.
That said, we will continue to elicit feedback from the community and if we feel that there is a significant potential audience out there for the game who want metal figures, it is something we will definitely look at alongside the resin production.
Funded, well.done guys.
Onwards and upwards 🙂