Making Your Own Epic Miniatures: The Concept Stage!
March 25, 2015 by brennon
Community member @deaddave has decided that it's high time he took up the ultimate challenge of getting his own miniatures designed. So he's embarked on a mighty journey with RC Studio Design to make that a reality. Let's see where things stand at this early stage...
BoW: So we can see some of the concept art you've had put together for the miniatures you're designing. What made you want to jump in and do it yourself?
Dave: Essentially I looked at my collection and thought...
'I've spent a lot of money on buying products from other companies and as much as I love them, none of them are unique. Anyone else can buy them'.
...I wanted something special for myself. Something that I could call my own.
Let's talk about the designs themselves. Tell us a little bit about what you wanted to achieve here.
When I approached a concept artist I gave him 4 words. 300, Spartan, Space Demi-God. There are a lot of influences in the design from animé, historical, and of course Sci-Fi.
I also didn't want the model to look ostentatious, with flourishes and heroic posing. I wanted something that looked serious, menacing and with a 'I'm going to kill you' look. I think we achieved that at this stage.
How has it been working with a concept artist and how did you find the right person for the job?
It's been a very pleasant experience working with Roberto Cirillo. He has listened to everything I have said, he takes all your ideas on board and matches your enthusiasm for the project. I was able to sit down with him and discuss my ideas for the initial concepts above.
Finding the right person was the fun part. I scoured the internet for weeks compiling all the artwork that I liked and listing the artists responsible. I then started to narrow it down initially based on location (because I was adamant I wanted to meet my artist to better express my ideas). After getting the list down to my top five I picked Roberto as I felt an affinity for his previous work which speaks for itself. He has worked with a lot of the top wargame developers (GW, Mantic, Privateer Press (see above) etc.) and so really knows his stuff.
What stage are you at now with the concept designs? Where do you go from here?
I'm currently at the first concept stage, the two pictured above are as far as we've got. I'm currently working with Roberto and we're deciding which elements of these pictures will go into the next concept design.
If this takes off what would you like to do next?
If (big IF) this is successful and people like it and buy it I would love to expand this into a full range of models and maybe one day have my own rules set for a game!
Stay tuned as we're going to be following the process very closely with @deaddave to find out how this all turns out!
What do you think of the concepts so far?
"I wanted something that looked serious, menacing and with a 'I'm going to kill you' look. I think we achieved that at this stage..."
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
"Finding the right person was the fun part. I scoured the internet for weeks compiling all the artwork that I liked and listing the artists responsible..."
Supported by (Turn Off)
So at the end of all that brilliant creative process, you arrive at …. GW knock-offs?
/slowclap
Thank you for your creative input 😉
And a member for 36 minutes at the time of post…. Well done.
This project is very interesting and I’m really looking forward to see the next steps of the process as well as finished (and painted!) miniatures, however… Wow! 9 thumbs down for a comment that is so true! The first design is nothing more than a variation on Space Marine Terminator with slightly different backpack and shield plus a Spartan helmet, something that has been done already while the other one is no more no less but Vostroyan Firstborn. I understand that it’s a huge task to do what @deaddave is doing (and that he is a member for over 2 years, apparently it matters…) but this is far from original, and instead of giving the artist the 4 words you are talking about you could just ask for Warhammer 40k proxies… Anyway, good luck with YOUR project and I hope that YOU will enjoy the process and of course the end effect, just learn to take any criticism that is coming your way, or be even more like GW and disable comments…
I agree. There is some odd double-standards going on.
If it were the other way around, and GW would put out miniatures that look suspiciously similar to some original work by a long-time BoW-member, the resulting eclipse the sun.
But creative theft is ok, I suppose, as long as you’re a long-time BoW-member? Artistic integrity doesn’t apply to you, if you happen to work for GW?
Nonsense 🙁
Unfortunately it doesn’t look like that @warzan. I am a member for only 2 months but I can see that it is really rare for a comment to get a lot of likes and both answers from @deaddave got a lot of them including the one about the membership which is absolutely irrelevant as you may loose a community member after his first comment just because he dared to criticise a long time member. What’s more it is even harder to get any negative votes on comments! So there must be something in what @sonnyboy pointed out.
@sonnyboy‘s comment is about Beasts of War making some kind of preference to members on the issue of Artistic Integrity.
That IMHO is utter nonsense. (and if he/she has some evidence of double standards there welcome to PM me about it and if needs be it can be addressed)
We are publishing this little series out of an interest in the process, and seeing where it goes (including what effect community comments have on @deaddave‘s future choices on the project if any – that’s up to him, it’s his project after all)
Our interest is in how someone with zero experience other than a love for his collection of toy soldiers, does in trying to create something through the use of third parties etc.
Personally I think it’s interesting, and may make for some interesting reading.
For me length of membership is a non issue, a member is a member – However, we have seen in the past a disgruntled blogger creating a series of accounts to make false accusations and frankly silly arguments, and then use other false accounts to defend those arguments. (So when we see accounts being setup just to post negativity, we do pay attention as communities need moderation – this we have learned over time)
it’s petty and silly, and forces our hand on the moderation side. EVERYONES opinion is welcome here, but be polite and reasonable. We have a good record of not removing comments or accounts here (I believe I have only ever banned 2 people in 6 years)
The Up/Down votes are for the community to help with that moderation, and everyone can cast a vote. Down votes don’t effect your Karma, only Up votes. So it’s about as fair as the system can be.
No body is expected to ‘toe any line’ or hide any opinion 🙂 – But if people agree or don’t agree that it up to them – they have the same rights you do…
If I may add to this both the following accounts were setup with the same disposable email service, on the same day…
sonnyboy
nethermancer
@warzan
lol 😛 I think we all guessed they were both from the same guy using those accounts 😛
both were setup just before the comments were posted 😛
Creative theft? @sonnyboy you taking the piss? So what if it comparable? Anything human from GW is a knock off of something else.
Absolutely Dave,
Anyone who thinks GW is original hasn’t studied their history. Space marines are based on the Romans, Imperial guard have been based on Russians, Americans in Vietnam, Mongols etc. I could go on!
I think the issue here is more about the way some comments are made negatively, for little or no reason,
rather than any sort of double standards or anything like that,
… the content of the comment will always reflect the response …
on the subject of design style …
when an entire industry is based on taking inspiration from different areas like
history, folklore, and more modern sci fi and fantasy stories and archetypes,
… that are all inspired by the exact same things I just listed,
then of course there may be some similar themes that pop up in different designs from different companies 😛
… it’s the exact same inspirations GW used when they first started 😛
personally I think it’s awesome that we live in a world where someone can
go out and try and create something for themselves like this 🙂
… how anyone can criticize someone for trying to realize a little dream like that just stuns me …
so personally I’m exited to see where this project goes 🙂
and I think it will be a cool thing for the community to follow along with, and see how it progresses 😉
… emphasis on the word community … it’s nice to be nice to each other sometimes 😉
@deaddave I applaud you for having a crack at this mate, but the space demi-god does look a lot like a Scibor Spartan which is just a SM proxy.
@topsecret soooo because someone else is already doing something similar, I cant have the model I want made, made? Yes?
(little late to the party I know but I had to add my opinion)
I can understand why some are criticising, you could have made anything but you made a space spartan that’s very space marinesque. Something something nothing new under the sun bla blah blah.
But on the other hand instead of turning to a company and buying a mini to look similar to what you want you’ve decided to make the mini that you want exactly the way you want it and that’s pretty awesome. So yeah it’s a “space marine” but it’s a space marine that’s unique to you 🙂
@top5ecret you’re totally right though. I want space Spartans! Used as a proxy? Yes it probably will be used as such. Still going to be a good one, and the one I want. Yeah other companies are doing similar stuff, but these companies aren’t doing EXACTLY what I want, so I’m having it done myself.
Actually, if I’m not mistaken, if you make your own mini you can use it at a game at the shop (whereas you can’t with proxies from another company), so that’s a plus. I’ve scratch-built mini’s and terrain for people who couldn’t afford GW products, and they were allowed there. *Crosses fingers to not get store manager in sh%t*. So a good plan.
@deaddave absolutely you can have the model you want mate, wasn’t questioning that at all. I guess everyone goes about a similar process a different way, for example, I have in the past sculpted my own additional details onto GW termies as I am sure almost everyone has. The way I see it you could have achieved a very similar result to this by taking say a Scibor Spartan/Spartans and sent them to Blue Sky Painting to be completely customised by their sculptors/modders.
@t0p5ecret correct, similar, but not exactly as I want it. By starting from scratch, irrelevant of similarities to other existing miniatures, every dimension from beginning to end is mine and exactly the way I want it. Sure its costly, but hey, its what I want 🙂
Well when someone’s first comment is just to slag something off? Sorry, but that is just trollish behaviour. Criticism is fine, but when it is openly being mocking? Nah.
I should point out that the Vostroyan Firstborn you see above definitely ARE that as they were the original concepts from Roberto. I just used them to illustrate some of his previous work.
Apologise is that caused confusion @inhumanbookworm !
BoW Ben
It got me really confused. Did I miss description? If yes I apologise, if there wasn’t any then it’s entirely your fault @brennon. 😀
I think the issue is the approach the words used and attitude. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but to be so condescending was wrong.
Given that the design has certain ‘fixed’ prerequisites, i.e. based on a humanoid shape, a head, body and four appendages, there are obviously a finite number of variations on that theme available. I would also like to see some of your ‘original’ work in order to see from which platform you are basing your expert opinion from!
Best Wishes
Brian Bunker, age 56, wargamer for 46 years, father to 4 and grandfather to 4!
sweet concepts 🙂 I’m loving the hybrid sci fi fantasy look, really cool style;)
hey, if you need any help getting these sculpted and cast up drop me a message 😉
I’d be more than happy to give any help and advice if you need, I’m sure I’ve got some useful contacts 🙂
looking forward to seeing more progress 😉
You’re still the only guy to pick up on the similarities between this and War from the Darksiders franchise. Most jump immediately to space marines. Obviously the backpack is a nod to a certain company. But alot of that concept owes its existence to the War character.
yeah, it’s the kind of stuff I like 😀
I can imagine this looking VERY Darksiders style 😉 😀
Good luck with it, Dave 🙂
Good luck
I’m trying to do the exact same thing! I’ll be keeping an eye on your progress- best of luck, and don’t let anyone get you down.
@deaddave
Congratulations, embarking on such journey is something I would love to do sometime in the future, its a nice way to tell a story to the people, an artistic expression.
I think we are blessed this day and age to have resources like concept artist and model sculptors accessible and one can attempt such a project as a hobby.
I’ve always liked the idea of designing a tank personally, and I thought it might be easier than a character to do as it is a boxy shape so could be done with my limited 3D modelling skills.
/waffle
I think a lot of us find ourselves in a creative place where we know exactly what we want, but can’t find anyone who actually makes it. So, you either get out your greenstuff and get converting and kitbashing (which is what I do) or you go down this route of getting your own ideas conceited and commissioned. Both are equally valid approaches, but I think the second feels a lot scarier to me.
I admire your commitment @deaddave . I don’t think this approach is for me, I love my greenstuff too much, but I’m fascinated to see how this process works out for you.
I do wish you all the best, and Roberto is most definitely one of the nicest guys in the industry. Would like to get to know what sort of size the JD_Prime is going to be, as he’s quite similar in look to my Hephaestus model :p .
That was the first thing I thought when I saw the model. Would be nice to make a force with your Hephaestus or two and some of these. Would make an interesting base for a Of Gods and Morals force perhaps.
I am Games Concept Design (concept art, Zbrush modelling, etc.) student currently and i want to get into this area, I just don’t know where to start!
Make a portfolio, design a few concept art and design studies for either imaginary games or things for games you enjoy.
A key selling point is to remember that the things you design will be casted and on a base, so keeping these in mind will help you in this industry, you can only gain casting knowledge from talking to the guys at industry, but can get an insight from the models you see and assemble, but for models on a base there are plenty of examples around so you can see when you design if a model will fit or not on a base.
when it comes to finding work … just ask people 😛
it can take a while to start getting regular clients at first, but perseverance is a good thing 😉
luckily it’s one of the few areas in any entertainment where skill is more important than a cv 😉
most companies like to work with people freelance,
so if you’ve got a good home set up that’s all you really need 😉
…. and practice practice practice 😉
it can be weird working hours, and sometimes plans change every couple of days, but it’s a fun job 😉
when it comes for sculpting in miniature, just remember a few things 🙂
try to make things extra strong … swords can’t be super thin like a computer game 😛
… when you shrink things like that down to 28mm scale it will be thinner than an atom 😛 ha ha ha
look out for bad undercuts, and keep details extra deep and thick, 3x more than you would normally think is needed 🙂
and remember to keep proportions in “mini scale” 😉
… even when people say minis are sculpted “true scale” … they are not 😛 ha ha
legs and arms a bit shorter, heads a bit bigger 😉
“true scale” human proportions would make heads 1.5 mm big 😛 ha ha ha
Thanks for all the tips! at the moment everything I do is for games, but I plan to tailor my final third year project in this area. I just need to work out what to do exactly 😛
well good luck with everything 😉
… maybe some kind of virtual board game would link the 2 areas nicely for a project ? 😉
Take a look at how others do their concepts; there’s no one way to do them. Consider a mix of the following:
– Contextual concepts: these show the things you’re trying to model in their environment or in a scenario. these can be very sketchy only giving an impression of a model rather than attempting to show a lot of detail – that’s the point. Start a story in people’s heads. e.g. Dropzone commander artwork
– model detail concept (even in static pose like Corvus Belli) shows the detail on a model (with callouts if necessary to explain). Combine with sketched poses to check dynamics and 3d conflicts; for example I have so many models that I look at and think “that would never work otherwise x would get caught up with y if it moved”
– early input/validation from someone with casting experience will be able to point out aspects that will make the model difficult &/or expensive allowing you a chance to refine it.
The more your mix of concepts combine to build a fuller picture the more attractive they become. The more you build up a set with consistent themes even more so.
Pretty sweet! I have to marvel at an artist’s creative genius. You will never have a more interesting conversation than one with an artist on how they created a piece.
Good luck with it all @deaddave. Really like the idea and design options for the shields.
@deaddave good luck on this an interesting project, not my cup of tea but my interests are more away from sci-fi other than DZC 🙂
Even if I did a 6mm version? 😉
If you did them in 10mm they could fit in with my Resistance force in DZC which is based on the Spartans…lol
You know what, if this first one takes off, I’m going to do one in 10mm. Hopefully by that time, 3D printing will be able to do decent 10mm infantry lol.
Well count me in for 10mm Nova Sparta will rise again:-)
Really looking forward to seeing how this project progresses. @deaddave – Best of luck with it.
On the favouritism thing… just don’t buy it. http://www.beastsofwar.com/members/deaddave/ and I had a stand up row a few months ago and I’m still a member. Feel we’re agreeing to differ now Dave 🙂 This has never struck me as a community that operates like that. Just my thoughts. Anyway good luck with the project.
Well said 😉
Let’s face it, at the most basic level, every mini is the same as every other mini. Tiny bifurcate inanimate objects. In some ways this is why historical stuff appeals as no-one ‘owns’ the right to all Kingtigers or Stugs.
I applaud deaddave for giving this a really serious go, and btw, nice to see him featuring in the Dropzone weekend and the Forgeworld big tank thingy unboxing. Best of luck!
Shucks, made me blush 😉
Just want to say thanks to everyone for the kind words and support, much appreciated!
I don’t usually sketch first… just go straight to sculpting, but it’s a good idea, if you need to share the vision with someone else. I’m hoping to actually get to the stage one day where I can make some molds and start pouring my own stuff. I would likely do a lot more sculpting then.
Some of the arguments above are valid, as the sketches look surprisingly similar to something you bought not long ago. You posted a pic in the forum… homma something or other, if memory serves me. I realize that for you, money is no object, but wouldn’t it be easier, and more cost effective, to just modify that figure, or other ones like it? They do have a space marine pedigree, and there’s so much proxy stuff floating around out there it should be easy to build most anything you want.
Anyway, not to jinx things. Good luck with your project, and I hope it works out.
You’re totally right, it would have been far more cost effective to have an existing miniature from my collection modified/converted. BUT, after some quotes from various modellers to get it the way I wanted, it occurred to me that by using another model as a base, it still would be the original model underneath, no matter what you draped over it. So I made the decision to start from scratch. Why? Well, it’s different for starters, many people just have minis converted, yet even the most drastically converted mini is usually still recognizable from its original. Mine may just end up being a glorified proxy, but it will be exactly what I want. Yes it will be similar to other stuff already available, that could also be converted to roughly what I want. But by starting by scratch, I have the say on every dimensional aspect from beginning to end. A conversion will always be at its heart, someone else’s work. Similarities aside, this will be mine 🙂
So are you going the 3D printing route, or making your own master and molds?
That I haven’t decided on yet to be honest!
Wether you agree with Dave’s aesthetic choices or not this will be an interesting project to watch progress. The whole Sparta/Space Marine theme work extremelty well together and I tip my hat to Dave for having a crack at this.
As for favouritism etc. what a load of old balls, Dave gets a lot of likes in the community because he’s an extremely active member within it. I’m pretty sure Warren and the lads would give equal consideration to any of members who want to demonstrate their love of the hobby.
Trolling gets what it deserves, negative scores and general derision.
I think it would be excellent for a amateur community competition, Beasts of War give a brief and select a winner from the entries, maybe even get a master made. Good luck with the project Dave, liking the shields very much.
Good luck from someone else trying to make the sort of stuff they want to exist happen. Hope you can realise your miniature dream ^_^
I’m interested in the piece and now understand how to raise karma point a win. I think.Good luck @deaddave.
Would the ‘real’ member behind nethermancer / sonnyboy please stand up rather than hide behind trollproxies?
… no I thought not!
My previous comment was in reply to nethermancer, whoever they are, not sure why it ended up where it did in the listing!
The other reason @deaddave gets alot of thumbs up from the community, is that he’s a really nice chap and doesn’t waste his time on conjuring up negative, destructive feedback to post about other peoples efforts.
I duno, I can have a good old bark when something winds me up 😉
Now BoW should have a 1000 karma thumb up button for people that say things that are so true and honest.
Thanks for sharing this ultimate hobby project making your own mini does not get any better than that for a hobby project. I like your design so far and think it would make a perfect Slaanesh chaos space themed lord. Are you also going to design a custom base for the miniature.
Thanks for posting.
Cheers.
How did I miss this? Just come to find it after the mention on XLBS.
Ignoring the drama, I like this.
I too have spartan space marines, mine are theoretically blood angel successors, at least those are the rules I use.
I got the spear/shield combo on my terminators by using grey knight termies and the halberds mosdified, with scibor large spartan shields (they have the lambda symbol on them) and use anvil industries spartan crests that fit exactly onto that cirved bit over the head.
My normal marines are mostly just using anvil spartan heads and remain stock apart from that. (very similar to the heads in your artwork).
I have to say those designs look great, and I had never really thought of getting my own made, very interested how this goes for you, I already have some ideas for something myself now.
Thumbs up from me @deaddave. Big community support for excellent contributors like yourself make BOW worth the backstage monthly subscription.
I find it incredible that someone would create an account just to troll something like this. That aside @deaddave this looks freaking amazing I particularly love the shield idea. Can’t wait till you get a prototype up for us to see!
ignore the drama Llama.. nice concept work @deaddave. Looking forward to watching this with interest… I was thinking of trying to do something similar but for an ad-mech (proxies for Imy-Guard) but with the new ad mech stuff from GW I might not have to.
Best of luck matey.
I think it looks really good. cant wait to see how your projects turn out. I would love to do something like this myself. :). I would buy your miniatures. good luck
Good luck with this series Dave. I will be watching this series with great interest. I have to agree with Lloyd if you want to make a model that suits what you play then what’s the issue if it carries similarities to my inspiration. Isn’t that the definition of inspiration. Top drawer dude!
*your inspiration :p
Sorry I’m late to the party !
Really enjoyed this article, keep up the great work @deaddave.
Remember there are those that Do, and then there is those that Can’t! Those that Can’t, generally try and bring others down to their level. Whereas those that Do, try and raise All of us up!
Can’t wait for more.
@deaddave
Would you let us know how much this cost when it’s all finished?