What @pagan8th said. It’s the sitting together and enjoying company, banter and have diversions in the form of your pets and children running around.  I feel like “The Event” just made some people realize they could to almost the same without leaving their little box. And for some it’s fine. It’s just more people doing the hobby but in different ways.

And yes we are Horatio.

I don’t think physical is out just yet. You have to remember that most RPG publishers cannot afford to develop the infrastructure required to support online gaming at the moment. Even looking at things like Roll20, there is a huge reliance on 3rd parties and communities to develop the relevant scripts and content to play anything other than D&D. I think D&D beyond is aimed at the mentally challenged (people who want to play D&dmD and just D&D), rather than Roleplayers (people who want to play a variety of RPGs rather than just D&D). It’s an attempt by WotC to create an ecosystem similar to GW where players spend all of their hobby money with them rather than going elsewhere and where every single aspect of the service can (and eventually will) be monetised. Unlike GW, this is the only way that WotC can do that because they don’t really own any significant IP, they just own the rules which are very hard to monetise to the degree they would like and virtually impossible to license in a meaningful way.

WotC’s new VTT, D&D Beyond, has also not been universally well received, with lots of player concerns about things like micro transactions, lack of ownership. This is all part of the concept of everything being a service to which you must subscribe, ad infinitum, rather than a product that you buy once. And these are very real concerns, you need only look at the videogames industry to see how bad that world really is – if you have ever heard the phrase “you will own nothing and be happy”, this is exactly what it refers to. You buy a game but buried in the terms and conditions are clauses that essentially mean you only own it for as long as the digital service from whom you buy it is prepared to host it. Unisoft recently discontinued one of their games to a not insignificant amount of outrage from digital owners. There have been numerous instances of games service providers being unavailable for periods of time leading to customers simply being unable to play digital games. So I really don’t think that digital is the future because fundamentally people like ownership of things. Going beyond that, Tesla do it with their cars where they essentially throttle the power output at around 80% unless you pay a monthly subscription.  BMW recently introduced it for features like heated seats and heated steering wheels – the car has the features when it’s built but you can’t access them unless you pay a monthly subscription.  Really, as people we need to wake up to this trend because it’s really, really bad for consumers.  No matter what the service providers might tell you, outright ownership is to the benefit of the consumer, subscription is to the benefit of the seller and it’s definitely a “right” we should do our utmost to protect.  I would also argue that currently I don’t think we have strong enough legislation in place to govern digital purchases to protect consumers service providers simply pulling the plug and depriving you of the product you paid for

Sadly I am sure D&D Beyond will be successful, although hopefully not as successful as WotC would like. But we, as players, have a duty to oppose D&D Beyond if we want to protect and maintain a healthy, vibrant games industry that exists beyond the corporate boundaries of the likes of WotC. This really should not be that difficult, because let’s face it, D&D is fucking horrible.

Buy physical folks.  Always buy physical.  And in the case of D&D, buy someone else’s physical products, there are far, far better RPGs out there

You are probably right with the business model.  I think it’s a combination of the two.  Create a hobby where nobody ever has to go anywhere else – GW.  Monetize everything in the game right via micro-transactions – Blizzard, EA et al.  I mean, if you are going to be a supervillain, why limit yourself to only one role model for inspiration.  Hell, why not outsource development and maintenance of the system to India or China so you can also pay staff next to nothing.  Like Apple

For me, I am not a fan of online RPGs at all, and not just RPGs.  During the pandemic when lots of things went online, from pub nights to RPGs, I never got any benefit from it.  I didn’t actually get the feeling of social connection that I get from being with people in person.  I was lucky that I was living with my brother at the time and we both like gaming so I wasn’t entirely alone, but I get precisely nothing out of online, zoom calls for gaming.  So VTTs are the absolute antithesis of everything that I love about RPGs and Wargames.  And I don’t see why playing in person should prevent me from seeing the sparkly armour my co-player bought in the game.  I think he should absolutely turn up to games night in that sparkly armour that he bought…  If he doesn’t he should not be allowed to have it in the game

I totally agree with you on the whole ownership of physical items too.  I have a lot of RPGs and wargaming books and they are all beautiful works in their own right.  They are well made with gorgeous artwork and even if they aren’t currently in use, they sit on a bookshelf and bring me joy just being there.  And nobody can take them away from me, I can play them anytime I like until I am no longer capable of doing so.  It’s not a service that can be switched off, I cannot be banned from playing them because I have said the wrong thing to the wrong person.  It’s mine.  Forever.  Although I do wish someone would come and take my D&D books away (nice to see I am not alone in thinking D&D is shite)

Maybe its a generational change?
For example, my mum’s generation were very wary of credit. I, however, grew up with no fear or taking out a loan to buy what I wanted now (I wouldn’t have lived on a narrowboat without my friendly local bank taking their pound of flesh over five years, for example). I struggle with the concept of “vapourware” – streaming services, on-demand music etc.
In fact, I recently went back to buying CDs – originally to support independent artists (who can easily release stuff for free, but can only actually make a living selling “merch” and physical objects) but more and more, I like the idea of ownership. I really did try to embrace Spotify, Amazon music etc. but it just doesn’t “click” with me.

I have a baby sister, some twenty years younger than I and she’s the opposite.
Maybe it’s because she’s resigned to the fact she’s unlikely to ever own anything substantial (like a house or a nice car) so she’s perfectly comfortable with the pay-now on-demand nature of “ownership” – a bit like the old grognards complaining “look at these bloody Millenials, walking around as if they rent the place”.

So maybe it’s marketing strategy that we’re uncomfortable with, but others are quite happy to embrace.
That’s not to say it’s the “correct” way of doing it – owning stuff is (almost) always preferable to just having it for a short while (although some of you will already know of my rather skewed opinions of “ownership” anyway and how I often blur the two concepts anyway).

I totally understand the business model behind subscriptions.
And I totally understand the desire to own stuff and have absolute control over it.
But my opinions are very different to those who came before me, and those who came after us.

So the question “are we the grognards now” also feels a little bit like “are we all of a similar middle-aged disposition and find things a bit weird over here?”
(the answer is almost certainly – spiritually if not literally – yes!)

@blinky465 I don’t hesitate to take out loans, but I am fully aware of the problems with a credit driven society and I try to limit the amount of credit I take out.  The fact that we ended up going that way doesn’t mean it was the optimal decision for society.  This idea of everything as a subscription is very similar although I also think it’s much more insidious.  If I take a loan out to buy a car (not PCP or HP, a bank loan), I own that car and it can’t be repossessed by the bank.  With HP I own the car at the end of the repayments.  So while it does tie you into a credit scheme and you do end up paying the interest, you still own the car and thus once the term of the loan is up, your payments stop which frees up income.  While the loans and interest are perhaps not great for the consumer, you still have the option to wait, save and buy with cash if you wish.

However when you are faced with a subscription, that doesn’t happen.  You must pay the money for as long as you wish to receive the service and if you stop paying, you lose the service.  If everything goes down this route, it means that any negative changes in your financial circumstances (loss of income through redundancy or retirement for example) mean will then have to lose many of the things that you are used to having because you no longer own them, you only ever “rent” them.  This is an incredibly negative move for society and while I agree that there is a generational aspect to this, I think it’s something that the younger generation need to wake up to and which if we allow to just happen without trying to oppose it, we are selling the younger generation out.  There is a huge value in private ownership, as unfashionable as that statement seems to be these days.  The idea that you can work hard, obtain something nice, useful or essential and that nobody can then take it away from you also allows you to work towards a goal of being able to retire, stop working and just enjoy the fruits of your labour.  Subscription models very much work against that goal.  I would rather have nothing than a subscription.

Us grognards are grounded… we horde our treasure in our ‘den’ and look after it

The younger generation keep their stuff in the ‘cloud’… stored on someone else computer and available so long as that computer exists.

Much rather have my stuff in a cupboard when I need it…

And come the apocalypse… when the youth are trying to google how to make fire and cook without a microwave… we can burn our books to keep warm and roast a something over the fire 🙂

P.S. And yes D&D is far from the ‘greatest RPG’ out there… despite what it says on the cover.