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Reply To: Show us zee papers.. Passports of your not coming in ever….

Home Forums News, Rumours & General Discussion Show us zee papers.. Passports of your not coming in ever…. Reply To: Show us zee papers.. Passports of your not coming in ever….

#1668357

osbad
4279xp
Cult of Games Member

Ad-hominem attacks do nothing to further the argument or the cause.  Just because someone may behave like a twat sometimes doesn’t mean the questions they raise are necessarily irrelevant.  I could have sourced other articles citing a similar view, but that one put the case well and concisely.

As someone who has been in and around “academia” for many years, I personally have very little respect for the state of universities currently and the quality of the overall scientific process, as well as for the general state of understanding and reporting on “science” in the media.  I could cite many utter nonsense scientific papers that get through the system, but for the purposes of this debate it is sufficient to say that the whole notion of “follow the science” is such a complete nonsense where the science is actually, of necessity lagging behind the need for decisions because it takes time to collate and assess actual evidence.  Being open and honest that certain procedures are precautionary in the absense of solid science would have been more honest and respected.  Also mathematical models are all very well, but need to be taken with far more skepticism than the media generally use, who tend to see them as solid predictions rather than the educated guesses of impact that they really are.  And then sadly the media, and civil service usually fails to keep up with the science as it evolves post hoc – for instance additional handwashing has now evidentially proved to be a pointless exercise in preventing spread of covid, as while there was initially a theoretical risk as particles stayed around on surfaces for a long time it is now known that these are largely dead and do not transmit the disease to any significant degree, yet it still forms part if the “hands, face, space” mantra that is still quoted, and forms part of the safety pantomime that many businesses operate to show they are being cautious.

Regarding the ongoing increase in deaths, there is agreement that deaths lag hospitalisations which lag cases.  Cases are falling, hospitalisations are falling, deaths are tiny numbers (given ~10,000 people a week die from all causes in the UK) and are expected to fall again soon as they trail the hospitalisations.  That is a totally uncontroversial statement.  The claim that cases are falling because testing is falling has actually been largely debunked too by the way.  It is a claim that is out there, but analysis of the figures doesn’t actually tend to support the view.

As for the “gave yourself away” comment above, I’m not going to even dignify it with an answer.  It is just plain stereotyping and hate.  It appears that anyone who questions orthodox thought, even politely, is prone to be labled and stereotyped by certain elements within the population, and if you can’t see the hypocrisy in that attitude we have nothing to talk about.

Bottom line, we all have a choice to make, and that choice is do we cower from what is now a tiny statistical risk, or do we decide to live life and just get on with it.  I’ll not criticise anyone where they take their personal views, but I will rigorously defend my own right not to have the government over-reach when I believe the evidence does not justify those legal powers.  And I will take my own view on whether I participate or not in activities which may increase my own risk or my loved ones.  It’s simple rationality as I see it.

If we are going to come down heavy as a society on individuals who expose themselves to the level of risk currently presented by Covid, then there are dozens of statistically more risky actions that logically we should also come down on, but don’t because (thankfully) society takes a more pragmatic view as it has got used to their existence and isn’t freaked out by them.  All I am calling for is to stop the societal “freaking out” that exists around this relatively novel disease now and look at it with the same rationality we do other forms of risk to life and limb – such as driving, bungee jumping, getting struck by a meteor, or catching measels etc., etc. all of which carry risk of injury and death.

A statistic I will keep quoting until it sinks in is that in 2017/18 tens of thousands of people died with flu or pneumonia, over 2000/week at its height (a level higher than is much currently the death  rate for those dying “with”  (as opposed to “from”, a much smaller number, but that’s a whole other debate) covid: (https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/influenzadeathsin20182019and2020)  That was a tragedy, and at the time the government was rightly criticised for letting the NHS get to a state where it was struggling to cope with the demand.  Yet no one called for the country to be shut down, and radical restrictions to be placed on individual liberty in response.  The covid death rate over the whole period,  since the start of 2020 is larger, but not that much larger (maybe half-t0-one order of magnitude at most), so it appears entirely irrational now that >90% of the population have antibodies to treat this disease with greater temerity than we do with seasonal flu – protect the vulnerable, let everyone else get on with their lives.  It appears utterly irrational do do anything else.

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