I’m not particularly confused but the only way to get the cards and rules needed to play the new overarching system would appear to be to buy more minis.  As a previous backer of Conan, MB:P, MB:P 1.5 Upgrade and Batman: GCC I don’t need any more plastic thanks.  I am a gamer though and use my minis.  If they are offering a new system to reuse all of my current assets than I’m all over it.  If I need to get more copies of minis I already have I’ll respectfully decline.

I’m hoping that the new web store when launched has simple upgrade packs for the new system.  If not, I guess I’m not going to play.  Pity, I’m a big fan of this company but this KS lacks the sort of focus they have had before.

@zoidpinhead to clarify, buy more miniatures that you already own.

I have watched this develop over the last couple of weeks and whilst I do understand what you need to buy in order to get what you need to play, regardless of whether you are a new or an existing backer, the reason I think a lot of people are confused is that it’s really hard to see what you need to buy if you already own Conan but want to play the versus mode without having to buy things you already own.  The reason it is so hard to figure that out is very simple – it isn’t possible to do that. A lot of existing backers were expecting to be able to buy the new rules, reuse the miniatures they already own whilst maybe buying a some new ones.  I have so many criticisms of this campaign, not least because it is confusing to try and figure out what you need to buy (and they were very slow to communicate that).h

The funding goal seems unreasonably high for the amount of new stuff that is really being offered.  Almost all every miniature on that kickstarter is from a previous kickstarter. Compare that to a funding goal of $80,000 first time round where everything was new and it seems more like a cash grab than a genuine kickstarter. They certainly don’t seem to be funding €700,000 worth of stuff.

Duplication levels for returning Conan backers is shocking; between 50% and 95% commonality with the original game with no option for previous Conan backers to buy only what they need to play the new Beyond the Monolith game. The options are pay €45 for a faction box that optimistically you will own 50% of (but more likely upwards of 75%), pay €32 for just stat cards and a game board and proxy the miniatures yourself – €32 is a lot of money for a handful of cards and tokens and of course you then have to find some miniatures from somewhere.

The way the new game is designed feels like it was done deliberately to force people to buy again what they have already paid for. The number of miniatures required to make a complete faction box being slightly more than you would have as an original backer. For example you need 8 of things previous backers will only have 5 of but they won’t provide a box that allows people to buy the delta between King Pledge and Beyond the Monolith. The game boards that come in the faction boxes are almost identical to the ones in the original game; they have been changed just enough to make sure that the old ones aren’t compatible with the new scenarios.

The catch phrase when they announced Beyond the Monolith was pay less play more. It was supposed to “breath new life” into existing games. But what its actually turned out is “buy stuff you probably already own, play more”. The new Beyond the Monolith isn’t breathing any new life into my existing Conan game, what if is actually doing is selling me a brand new game, at full price. A new game the contents of which I already own 80%-90% but not quite in the right format to play the new game. As someone who has supported Monolith quite a lot since they launched in 2015 and backed Conan and Mythic Battles quite heavily, this feels a bit like a kick in the teeth. It isn’t going to ruin my enjoyment of the game I already own – Conan is still an amazing game. But it is probably going to stop me backing any Beyond the Monolith products in the future which is a real shame. I would have really liked to get in on the whole Conan skirmish game and Lord knows I have enough stuff for it! But I can’t justify paying €200+ to get the vs mode when I already own nearly all the stuff I would be getting.

Utterly confusing, and shocking that they really thought this was the best way to introduce this new one-system-fits-all deal.  I like Monolith but this is a trainwreck mess, and they should have known better.  It might not fund, that’s how bad it is. The amount of folks checking in at the $1 level because they have no idea what is what is pretty telling.

@slayerofworlds the people failing to grasp a concept here are Monolith. They are trying to sell snow to the escimos.

Even if it is true that the discount represents the cost of producing duplicate miniatures, the remaining money is VASTLY inflated in relation to what they are actually trying to fund. Compare what they are actually trying to produce (new stat cards, a handful of new miniatures and some new game boards) and the funding goal they have set to other kickstarters and it just doesn’t stack up.

Monolith know their numbers better we do so I am not going to say the numbers aren’t genuine but what I will say is that if they are genuine they need to rethink their working practices because they are being out competed by pretty much everyone else. That or what they are trying to do is not a viable product and they need to scale it back, perhaps try and fund only two vs boxes and include less of the old miniatures. Maybe use the original boards rather than the ever so slightly updated ones.

People aren’t obliged to back something if it doesn’t represent value for money to them, the new Conan Kickstarter doesn’t represent value for money to anyone who already owns the Conan kickstarter. Even the Legacy pledge has a fair amount of duplication.  I haven’t backed yet, if it funds(I suspect it will) I might get a Legacy Pledge for the new Adventure scenarios but at the moment I am not really feeling much love towards this kickstarter. It’s disappointing but it is what it is.

It’s very good for new backers, I will say that

> Frankly I don’t see the point of this new ‘versus’ system.

Me neither, but rumormill is that only one guy at Monolith cares about the Adventure system anymore. Also, the solo stuff was originally from the Modiphius RPG. At least that’s not a point of confusion (?)

> I thought maybe I could pickup a basic core system with cards to support the two games I have.

I’m assuming you’re only interested in the Adventure system. Monolith decided that you needed a Legacy kit to upgrade your Core set for any of its adventures it will be publishing, starting with the Tome of Skelos. Dunno where the original Conan expansion sets come in. I’m gonna guess that they’re ignoring all the expansion set purchases to “simplify” things, and that’s where the discount comes in.

I also guess they could have released future adventures only for the Conan core set, or use the FFG model where they release an expansion and adventures that only use the core set and expansion. However, that obviously wouldn’t mesh well with a Vs. system — or would it? Imperial Assault uses this model, and includes a skirmish game. Dunno how well this works, and, obviously, it doesn’t let the company release adventures that use more than one expansion. OTOH, If the Conan franchise releases more models, then Monolith’s model of a core plus Legacy kit doesn’t allow them to use these new models, unless the models come with a set of adventures. I still guess. :/

> No need for more models

Yeah, that’s what they pitched. Forthcoming, I imagine they’ll just publish adventures and not any upgrade kits.

> IMHO, but they seem to be obsessed with shifting more plastic.

I dunno why they added more models, either. Maybe they thought they were needed for the Adventure systems and/or Vs. systems to fill out certain roles in an army or adventure or something.

Well, whatever. You now know what to buy, and it’s up to you whether or not you want it. Remember your discount! :/

Yep. It could have been as simple as ‘buy what you want to for the game you have or want. You tick some boxes, add them to a shopping trolley and..’

Oh. That’s what shopping is. This is a kickstarter but for products that already exist. Making it a pre-order system. But a pre-order system where the retailer knows exactly how many of the unit to print so faces no risks of over production or left over stock. Or any of the protections of the sale of goods act.

As the kids say… Yeah and no.

I like Mythic Battles: Pantheon. It’s a great game and I backed it. I’d like to buy the expansions. Just not on Kickstarter.

@bubbles15 I have heard rumblings that they MIGHT be opening a Webstore so you can buy stuff directly from them.